20:00:12 <riecatnor[m]> #startmeeting Mindshare
20:00:12 <zodbot_> Meeting started Thu Dec 16 20:00:12 2021 UTC.
20:00:12 <zodbot_> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
20:00:12 <zodbot_> The chair is riecatnor[m]. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
20:00:12 <zodbot_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:12 <zodbot_> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
20:00:18 <riecatnor[m]> #meetingname Mindshare
20:00:18 <zodbot_> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
20:00:35 <MadelinePeck[m]> Hey everybody!
20:00:42 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 16 20:00:12 2021 UTC.
20:00:42 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
20:00:42 <zodbot> The chair is riecatnor[m]. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
20:00:42 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
20:00:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
20:01:04 <riecatnor[m]> #chair Onuralp Sezer bt0dotninja tyll Máirín Duffy nb pbokoc Vipul Siddharth
20:01:04 <zodbot_> Current chairs: Duffy Máirín Onuralp Sezer Siddharth Vipul bt0dotninja nb pbokoc riecatnor[m] tyll
20:01:04 <zodbot> Current chairs: Duffy Máirín Onuralp Sezer Siddharth Vipul bt0dotninja nb pbokoc riecatnor[m] tyll
20:01:11 <riecatnor[m]> #info About Mindshare: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare/
20:01:17 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Hello
20:01:17 <mizmo> 👋
20:01:18 <VipulSiddharth[m> .hello siddharthvipul1
20:01:19 <zodbot_> VipulSiddharth[m: siddharthvipul1 'Vipul Siddharth' <siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>
20:01:23 <riecatnor[m]> .hello riecatnor
20:01:24 <zodbot_> riecatnor[m]: riecatnor 'Marie Nordin' <mnordin@redhat.com>
20:01:27 <OnuralpSezer[m]> .fas thundebirdtr
20:01:27 <zodbot_> OnuralpSezer[m]: 'thundebirdtr' Not Found!
20:01:35 <OnuralpSezer[m]> .hello thunderbirdtr
20:01:36 <zodbot_> OnuralpSezer[m]: thunderbirdtr 'Onuralp SEZER' <thunderbirdtr@gmail.com>
20:01:43 <OnuralpSezer[m]> Hello o/
20:01:45 <riecatnor[m]> heyyyy peeps
20:01:51 <riecatnor[m]> how's everyone doing today?
20:02:00 <riecatnor[m]> I am feeling ready for the weekend :D
20:02:11 <MadelinePeck[m]> riecatnor[m]: Me too 😆
20:02:21 <VipulSiddharth[m> I am not.. I am returning to work after this weekend XD
20:02:23 <VipulSiddharth[m> haha
20:02:28 <riecatnor[m]> Hi Máirín Duffy Madeline Peck Onuralp Sezer Vipul Siddharth !! it's a party
20:02:34 <mizmo> \o/
20:02:52 <OnuralpSezer[m]> riecatnor[m]: No work meeting then :)
20:02:53 <MadelinePeck[m]> My roommates and I all worked at the table drinking our coffee this morning, the work vibes were strong 💪🏻😎😂
20:02:55 <OnuralpSezer[m]> just party ? :)=
20:02:58 <OnuralpSezer[m]> * just party ? :)=
20:03:00 <riecatnor[m]> I have some Christmas preparations to finish :)
20:03:03 <OnuralpSezer[m]> * just party ? :)
20:03:18 <riecatnor[m]> co-working is great
20:03:28 <riecatnor[m]> only problem I have is being away from my two monitors lol
20:03:48 <OnuralpSezer[m]> riecatnor[m]: good for your eyes :)
20:03:53 <OnuralpSezer[m]> less square screen
20:03:56 <riecatnor[m]> one is worse lol
20:04:14 <riecatnor[m]> #topic announcements and information
20:04:19 <riecatnor[m]> #info Fedora Linux 35 elections results are out!
20:04:24 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-linux-35-election-results/
20:04:30 <OnuralpSezer[m]> more natural stuff :)
20:04:37 <VipulSiddharth[m> Congrats tyll
20:04:51 <riecatnor[m]> Congrats tyll ! happy to have you another two cycles, and thank you for all your contributions to the team@
20:04:56 <riecatnor[m]> s/@/!/
20:05:10 <riecatnor[m]> #info Recordings from the F35 Release Party now available on the Fedora Youtube
20:05:16 <mizmo> @tyll 🎉
20:05:37 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-linux-35-release-party-recordings-available-now/
20:05:42 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHFMY9-DXaA&list=PL0x39xti0_65GXPLfbWCgdMjSpYfvE5Av
20:05:52 <riecatnor[m]> #info CfP for the Distributions devroom at FOSDEM is open until December 20th
20:05:57 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/distributions/
20:06:02 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2021q4/003311.html
20:06:08 <VipulSiddharth[m> oh, thank you Marie for including this <3
20:06:15 <riecatnor[m]> of course!
20:06:17 <MadelinePeck[m]> yay tyll!!!!
20:06:30 <riecatnor[m]> feel free to add any notes about that Vipul Siddharth
20:07:01 <VipulSiddharth[m> CFP ends in 3 days but I am sure there will be a bit of wiggle space.. so if anyone has any interesting topics to talk around distributions, most welcome
20:07:19 <VipulSiddharth[m> riecatnor: also reminds me, when stand proposal opens, I will get in touch with you to get Fedora in
20:07:38 <riecatnor[m]> I think marianab is planning to open a Mindshare ticket about that :)
20:07:48 <riecatnor[m]> your help will be most apprecaited
20:07:51 <VipulSiddharth[m> oh great!
20:07:51 <VipulSiddharth[m> scratches from the todo :P
20:07:52 <riecatnor[m]> s/apprecaited/appreciated/
20:07:53 <bt0> cool
20:07:57 <bt0> hi o/
20:08:07 <riecatnor[m]> hiii bt0 !
20:08:09 <riecatnor[m]> #info CfP for the CentOS Dojo at FOSDEM open until January 9th
20:08:16 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://wiki.centos.org/Events/Dojo/FOSDEM2022
20:08:21 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSds-fpT7xVsF4_5Y48dIexdIoiQK-Xv7EyI3r3fpYE1oEFopA/viewform
20:08:40 <riecatnor[m]> #info We have 3 new interns through Outreachy for the Dec-March session! Learn more on the CommBlog
20:08:45 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/outreachy-interns-introduction-december-2021-to-march-2022/
20:08:56 <VipulSiddharth[m> 🎊
20:08:58 <riecatnor[m]> #info @mattdm kicked off a discussion for a 3 year Fedora strategy, feel free to get involved, we need everyones input!
20:09:03 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-in-2025-what-do-we-want-and-how-will-we-get-there/35258/2
20:09:09 <VipulSiddharth[m> whao, did anyone else see that?
20:09:15 <VipulSiddharth[m> when I sent confetti?
20:09:19 <mizmo> 🙂 in element yeh it does that
20:09:26 <riecatnor[m]> thats fun!
20:09:31 <VipulSiddharth[m> :mind_blown:
20:09:46 <riecatnor[m]> is it just for that emoji?
20:09:48 <riecatnor[m]> I want to try it lol
20:09:56 <riecatnor[m]> 🎊
20:09:56 <VipulSiddharth[m> try it, you will like it
20:10:02 <riecatnor[m]> OOHH
20:10:05 <bt0> cool
20:10:08 <mizmo> 🎉 this works too
20:10:13 <riecatnor[m]> nice
20:10:15 <VipulSiddharth[m> 🎉
20:10:24 <VipulSiddharth[m> hahaha, nice! party trick
20:10:38 <mizmo> 🧜‍♀️ i wish this did smtg does it
20:10:41 <mizmo> darn
20:10:51 <riecatnor[m]> ❤️
20:10:59 <riecatnor[m]> I thought maybe that one would do smt
20:11:10 <VipulSiddharth[m> 🔥
20:11:15 <VipulSiddharth[m> okay, that was last from me
20:11:15 <mizmo> 💯
20:11:16 <VipulSiddharth[m> nothing
20:11:21 <riecatnor[m]> time to spam every emoji lol
20:11:38 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Mindshare Quarterly Update
20:11:44 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/306
20:11:49 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://hackmd.io/6FHVaOXERwu6yOYvhJnJog?view#Mindshare-Committee-Quarterly-Update---October-December-2021
20:12:15 <riecatnor[m]> OK, here is our first quarterly update
20:12:16 <VipulSiddharth[m> hmm, not checking my board made me miss this
20:12:28 <VipulSiddharth[m> well, I will be back on Monday
20:12:28 <VipulSiddharth[m> so will definitely get it in before next meeting
20:12:47 <riecatnor[m]> I was wondering if we would like to take 10 minutes right now to add things in
20:12:52 <riecatnor[m]> They can be bullet points
20:13:02 <bt0> sure
20:13:09 <riecatnor[m]> that way, we don't have to worry about having #actions leaving the meeting
20:13:33 <riecatnor[m]> I will provide another short block of time in the early tuesday call for people to add things as well
20:17:22 <riecatnor[m]> it's looking good so far, we have another 5 mins to add stuff in :)
20:17:51 <mizmo> For mentored projects... how about Ashlyn's practicum?
20:18:01 <riecatnor[m]> good call!@
20:18:03 <mizmo> Also Emma from the CPE is an intern I'm onboarding to help with website UX
20:21:34 <mizmo> maybe the t-shirt stuff we've been working on?
20:21:43 <mizmo> and polo
20:21:45 <riecatnor[m]> yeh! I put that we are working on swag, but I could add some deets
20:21:50 <bt0> yes
20:22:36 <riecatnor[m]> this looks awesome :) hopefully we can fill the gaps during the tuesday meeting
20:22:54 <riecatnor[m]> feel free to add more things that you find/think of!
20:23:40 <riecatnor[m]> #topic tickets
20:23:49 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/307
20:26:40 <riecatnor[m]> thank you x3mboy for opening this thoughtful ticket!@
20:26:44 <riecatnor[m]> s/!@/!/
20:27:28 <riecatnor[m]> my guess this is in response to the Twitter discussion on the Mindshare list :)
20:28:39 <riecatnor[m]> to begin, any initial thoughts on the Youtube related ticket?
20:29:54 <mizmo> the council youtube ticket?
20:30:05 <riecatnor[m]> this one: https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/307
20:30:20 <riecatnor[m]> I think I meant content guide ticket
20:30:22 <riecatnor[m]> :)
20:30:25 <mizmo> ah ok cool
20:30:29 <mizmo> i think its a fantastic idea
20:30:49 <mizmo> having a documented set of rules makes total sense and i think can help content makers understand the parameters before they submit stuff thats out of bounds
20:31:09 <riecatnor[m]> It looks like the Magazine has a place to begin, also I see Eduard created a draft of the policies
20:31:34 <riecatnor[m]> Agreed, Máirín Duffy - do we think we can create a general guideline or should it be specific to each platform?
20:31:43 <bt0> yes
20:31:56 <riecatnor[m]> I guess we could make one, and then make any additional notes per platform as well.
20:32:10 <bt0> better
20:32:13 <riecatnor[m]> I think this is for whoever wants to submit?
20:32:16 <TillMaas[m]> How many people are creating content that the policy will apply to?
20:32:47 <riecatnor[m]> also, hi Till Maas !
20:32:59 <TillMaas[m]> Can we get them involved in writing the policy?
20:33:11 <bt0> well for youtube some video meettings will be uploaded every two weeks (I think)
20:33:17 <mizmo> riecatnor: i wonder if it'd work to have a general guideline and then additional ones targeted per platform that ride on top instead of a full separate doc for each
20:33:27 <riecatnor[m]> yes, absolutely. I think we can ask Eduard, and also Brian who wrote to the mindshare list about the twitter account
20:34:07 <riecatnor[m]> I agree, keeping it centralized will make it easier to manage imo
20:34:13 <mizmo> it would be a great way to help onboard folks to submit content to official fedora channels and tap into that as a way a creative media-oriented person could onboard as a fedora contributor
20:34:43 <riecatnor[m]> it might be a nice way to gather some interest around Fedora Marketing again
20:34:55 <riecatnor[m]> would be nice to see activity around that again!
20:36:31 <TillMaas[m]> I dear that having more rules will actually nahe contributions less likely since they increase the barrier
20:37:14 <mizmo> i wonder too if we can weave the various fedora media platforms into the website revamp and use that as an onboarding tool. like, have some videos on how to use fedora IoT on the IoT page... and have a little thingy "want to create videos like this? click here for how to get started" - we have this concept going for the new website of "contextual upselling" for recruiting new contributors.... putting a little hint as to how they can work
20:37:14 <mizmo> on the thing the page is focusing on
20:37:18 <riecatnor[m]> I think its more of a guide than rules.. and can be helpful for folks who don't know where to start
20:37:33 <TillMaas[m]> Therefore involving the contributors will make it nur likely that they are onboard
20:37:33 <mizmo> I love calling it a guide rather than rules
20:37:42 <mizmo> Fedora Media Contribution Guide
20:37:55 <bt0> +1
20:38:08 <nb> Yes
20:38:10 <mizmo> also in a way it's acknowledging explicitly what types of content we'd like submitted to us 🙂
20:38:18 <nb> mizmo I totally agree.  I prefer guides rather than rules
20:38:18 <mizmo> so it'll give folks ideas on what they could do to help
20:38:32 <mizmo> Fedora Media Creator Toolkit is another way
20:38:34 <riecatnor[m]> I would like to see our social media connected across the sites, as well! that's a great idea Máirín Duffy
20:38:54 <mizmo> use it as a way to get people excited to do it
20:39:07 <mizmo> and hey if i follow this guide i can get published on the official fedora channel, cool!
20:39:20 <mizmo> there is some prestige to that i think would be attractive
20:39:44 <mizmo> we could even invite "influencers" lol
20:40:05 <riecatnor[m]> lol
20:40:12 <mizmo> which ive seen some folks do. Like somewhat recently Kyle Conway invited one of the Linux reviewers who had given Fedora a bad rap to try again and do a fresh review
20:40:15 <riecatnor[m]> when does one go from being a person on social media to an influencer
20:40:30 <riecatnor[m]> kyleconway++
20:40:48 <mizmo> 🤷‍♀️ lol the terms "influencer" and "creator" i kind of ... ehh lol
20:41:37 <riecatnor[m]> shruggg
20:41:44 <riecatnor[m]> kylerconway++
20:41:50 <riecatnor[m]> trying to give Kyle a cooke :)
20:42:15 <nb> kylerconway++
20:42:18 <zodbot> nb: Karma for kylerconway changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
20:42:22 <nb> zodbot doesn't like matrix
20:42:31 <riecatnor[m]> mmhhhh
20:42:34 <TillMaas[m]> If we want more content contributors I think we need someone to be a good example, do workshops and help me contributers
20:43:10 <riecatnor[m]> that would be great Till Maas
20:43:24 <TillMaas[m]> At least that's is my experience from code contributions. It was not the guidelines that were appealing.
20:44:07 <mizmo> oh im not saying the guidelines would be appealing.... but they would be a central kind of home to point to to help media contributors get started
20:44:26 <mizmo> which doesnt exist today AFAIK beyond the magazine's guidelines (which honestly from what i understand have helped them recruit contributors)
20:44:39 <mizmo> and they even have a call on the page would you like to contribute... kind of thing
20:44:46 <mizmo> we dont do that on the other platform i dont think
20:44:52 <mizmo> so ppl might not even know it was something they could do
20:44:54 <bt0> nb++
20:45:29 <riecatnor[m]> to me the guidelines/documentation would be the foundations of building up a new social media team
20:45:41 <riecatnor[m]> so, its important to get that in place before we call people to action
20:47:25 <riecatnor[m]> otherwise we will be bombarded with questions
20:47:50 <TillMaas[m]> Is there any such content on fedora YouTube already?
20:47:52 <TillMaas[m]> There should probably be a YouTube video that explains the guideline 😉
20:47:52 <mizmo> Till Maas: submitted content?
20:47:54 <riecatnor[m]> some. it is mostly events, but the Fedora Classroom has a playlist
20:47:55 <TillMaas[m]> Something on YouTube that would be subject to the missing guidelines
20:47:55 <riecatnor[m]> hehe
20:47:55 <riecatnor[m]> we have been talking about this for some time, I would like to move the next topic.. I will gather all the notes and write it up for the ticket. Meanwhile, feel free to add your thoughts there as well!
20:47:59 <riecatnor[m]> #topic future of Fedora
20:48:01 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-in-2025-what-do-we-want-and-how-will-we-get-there/35258
20:49:43 <mizmo> So.... we can't know if we're doubling the number of people active every week on fedora if we arent measuring that
20:49:57 <riecatnor[m]> great point 😅
20:50:00 <mizmo> For mindshare, the stuff we do is perhaps a bit trickier to measure than say commits or builds
20:50:14 <riecatnor[m]> very true, as well.
20:50:44 <riecatnor[m]> so I guess figuring out how to measure that is a good place to start.
20:51:05 <TillMaas[m]> Matthew was measuring this in the past using fedmsg
20:51:13 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://chaoss.community/metric-types-of-contributions/
20:51:16 <mizmo> And also hard to assess... like if we do a new contributor recruitment effort.... we get X new FAS accounts as a result... do we go back and figure out how many stick around vs trail off? And.... especialy I think for the creative stuff... ppl dip in and out and that is totally ok
20:51:51 <mizmo> I wonder if one way to approach this is team by team.... can each team think about what would their team look like were their number of contributors double, and think through ways to measure that
20:52:36 <mizmo> Like for design team, measurements I'd be looking at:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/6cd183df950d44765f92541550dc51d95e7feb79)
20:52:47 <mizmo> So sort of farm that out to individual teams under mindshare and see if we can come up with taht
20:52:54 <bt0> it's no easy determine who is an active contributor
20:53:33 <mizmo> but maybe we dont have to. The exact number of active contributors maybe doesn't matter if I can say, hey we used to only have 2-3 ppl in the design team meetings and now we on average have 5-7
20:53:35 <riecatnor[m]> I think that might work Máirín Duffy but we have had some trouble getting responses from Mindshare teams that are not fully active
20:53:44 <riecatnor[m]> so we might be setting those goals
20:53:51 <mizmo> Maybe we mark some teams as active, and some teams as inactive
20:53:58 <mizmo> And for the inactive teams, that falls on us as the committee
20:54:09 <riecatnor[m]> I also thought about Red Hat's OSPO.. maybe they could try to help us find a good way to measure this? I know we have a couple folks working on metrics.. Cali Dolphi did some analysis of Fedora mailing lists iirc
20:54:16 <mizmo> So like two modes: growth of an active team vs. bootstrapping an emerging / inactive team
20:54:39 <mizmo> Mailing list usage varies by team though... design team's list usage has definitely fallen off
20:54:45 <riecatnor[m]> I like the idea of just defining a team as inactive, instead of just being like ehhhh their isn't much going on there rn
20:55:03 <mizmo> Yeh exactly
20:55:11 <riecatnor[m]> We barely use the Mindshare list.. we usually chat here and on tickets
20:55:39 <mizmo> And the list of inactive teams could be a kind of "leadership oppty" list - areas ripe for someone to lead and not step on toes
20:56:03 <riecatnor[m]> That is a nice way of framing it
20:56:17 <mizmo> when we do the fedora wallpaper vote every 6 months, we have a nice built in way to cycle off contributors who've decided to go inactive
20:56:42 <mizmo> We send the vote link out to every design team fas group member, and it has a link "don't want to be involved anymore, cool, click here"
20:57:04 <mizmo> so we've been pruning our membership list - which has been great, it used to be huge and full of super long term inactive folks, now we're getting it down to a more accurate reflection of things
20:57:39 <mizmo> so thinking about end to end lifecycle of contributions might be good too because going on number of members in a group over time -that's always gonna go up if you never prune or expire
20:58:17 <riecatnor[m]> I like that idea of a passive way for folks to step down from a team.. I think it is harder to have to ask someone or go through some public process
20:58:32 <bt0> right
20:58:36 <nb> yeah
20:58:47 <mizmo> yeh its pretty low-key, and its in a private email
20:59:02 <riecatnor[m]> ok, we are running short on time.. I think we should continue discussing this
20:59:07 <riecatnor[m]> any takers to add notes to the thread?
20:59:11 <mizmo> and i think... because it's not a human, its an automated message... less chance for shame or whatever in admitting you're kinda done.
20:59:12 <tyll> another option than investing a lot of effort into measuring the current state could also be to put more effort into actually increasing the contributors
20:59:39 <tyll> if it is a lot of effort to measuer the current state and improvements, then there is less capacity to do the actual improvement
21:00:07 <mizmo> if you dont know the current state though it might be hard to figure out what to change to get more folks
21:00:47 <mizmo> like maybe you thought you had more ppl than you do, or vice versa. or you find some patterns that show the best opportunities for onboarding folks
21:00:51 <riecatnor[m]> So, we have hit time :)
21:01:01 <riecatnor[m]> we definitely need to continue the convo at another meeting!
21:01:12 <tyll> for that we will probably need other data. So instead of asking how many are there we need to ask what brought you here
21:01:27 <mizmo> i can commit to summarizing the discussion and putting in the discourse thread
21:01:39 <riecatnor[m]> thank you, Máirín Duffy !
21:01:46 <tyll> mizmo++
21:01:51 <riecatnor[m]> and thanks everyone for the discussion today :)
21:01:53 <bt0> mizmo++
21:02:15 <mizmo> tyll: true - maybe a better example is looking at tenure. if 90% of your active contributors are lifers (aroudn 10+ years) you know you have a generational problem maybe lol vs 90% being 1 year or less in fedora
21:02:39 <riecatnor[m]> #endmeeting