20:09:30 <stickster> #startmeeting
20:09:30 <zodbot_> Meeting started Wed Sep  9 20:09:30 2009 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:09:30 <zodbot_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:09:44 <stickster> #topic FUDCon planning -- intro
20:09:51 <stickster> Hi everybody! Roll call!
20:09:57 * ctyler here
20:10:05 * mchua out of breath, but here
20:10:14 * overholt here but may be pulled away
20:10:15 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_talk:Toronto_2009#Planning_conversation_details
20:10:21 <stickster> overholt: Understood, thanks for stopping in
20:10:28 <stickster> We'll publish the notes to the list too
20:10:30 <overholt> great
20:10:40 <overholt> I was mostly stopping by so my IRC client would log
20:10:55 <stickster> We're using gobby.fp.o to just look at some agenda and an email I started with more details
20:11:25 <mchua> (the link is what just got dumped to gobby, and I reckon we'll update it on the wiki too or... we'll figure it out)
20:11:30 <stickster> So what I was hoping to do is a quick pass on the wiki page to see where each of our planning items stands
20:11:47 <stickster> It looks like Mel's done her usual awesome job of capturing all that
20:12:06 <stickster> Mel, do you mind if I just use that for now, and then compare with the wiki at the end to see if we missed anythign?
20:12:08 <stickster> *anything
20:12:43 <stickster> mchua silence = consent
20:13:04 <stickster> OK, looks like we're dealing with logistics first, content afterward
20:13:13 * mchua nods.
20:13:14 <stickster> #topic FUDCon planning -- transportation
20:13:36 <stickster> So right now the main open question is establishing a bus line to use for BOS -> YYZ transportation.
20:13:41 * mchua was, in fact, looking at the wiki to compare with gobby notes to see if we had missed anything. ;)
20:13:53 <stickster> ;-) again, awesome.
20:14:19 <stickster> The way I see it is, the bus would leave Thursday morning from Boston, *hopefully* stop in Westford on the way to pick up people for whom that's more convenient, then head off to Toronto and the hotel.
20:14:31 <stickster> The drive is ~8-9 hours.
20:14:39 <stickster> Maybe a bit more with a lunch stop.
20:15:05 <mchua> Advantage of bus: we could easily keep the bus around all week for FUDCon attendees with no car, in case we need to shuttle people to/from FUDPub, etc.
20:15:12 <mchua> I'm not sure how close all these locations are together.
20:15:13 <stickster> agreed
20:15:29 <mchua> Also, it seems to be a fair bit cheaper (depending on how many shuttle riders we have) to do a bus than buy plane tickets.
20:15:30 <overholt> many of us Red Hatters in Toronto don't have cars
20:15:31 <stickster> It's a few bus stops from the hotel to the FUDCon site, walking distance from the hotel to FUDPub.
20:15:34 <overholt> so that'd be cool
20:15:38 <mchua> Oh, okay. So maybe we don't need a bus.
20:16:30 <stickster> ctyler: The wiki page says that Seneca @York is pretty convenient to public transpo, right?
20:16:50 <overholt> it is
20:16:50 <ctyler> 1700 buses a day, to anywhere in southern Ontario
20:16:56 <stickster> wow
20:17:03 <stickster> OK, so here's how I see the bus
20:17:13 <stickster> Absolutely needs:
20:17:18 <stickster> * To not be a hellhole
20:17:34 <stickster> * To seat 20-25 people, more wouldn't hurt
20:17:35 <overholt> it _is_ a bus ;)
20:17:42 <stickster> Would be great:
20:17:49 <stickster> * AC power outlets for laptops :-)
20:17:52 * ctyler strongly recommends getting one with AC power
20:18:07 <stickster> mchua: Did either of the companies you contacted indicate anything about AC?
20:18:34 <mchua> stickster: if we get a bus, do we absolutely want to keep it for the week as well?
20:18:49 <mchua> stickster: No, I didn't think to ask about that, but I will this second time.
20:18:58 <stickster> I don't think we're going to need that, given how the locations have worked out
20:19:09 * mchua welcomes our Toronto Red Hatters to the meeting (j0 to charley and jon_vanalten)
20:19:23 <stickster> overholt: ctyler: The public buses run over the whole weekend, right?
20:19:32 <ctyler> yes
20:19:38 * stickster notes our schedule is not crazy hours -- starting at 10, winding up at 6
20:19:43 <mchua> stickster: Okay. Just to warn you, it might not actually be that much cheaper to not need a driver in between. But I will check.
20:20:04 <mchua> Also, the smallest bus we're likely to get is something like a 40-seater.
20:20:05 <stickster> mchua: If it's not much cheaper, having the bus gives us flexibility, and I'm all for that. I don't want to pay $1K extra for it.
20:20:12 * mchua nods.
20:20:20 <ctyler> The bus from S@Y to the Hotel is the York Region "VIVA" rapid transit. It runs with 15 minute or greater frequency every day.
20:20:37 <stickster> That sounds like just the ticket
20:20:38 <ctyler> You won't need a bus here.
20:20:49 <mchua> (the next smaller size pushes somewhere from 15-25 folks, cutting it a little too close for my comfort.)
20:21:17 <stickster> mchua: Yes, I think the ~40-seater is going to be the right thing to do.
20:22:05 <mchua> Okay. I just checked kayak.com, and for reference, round-trip BOS-YYZ plane tickets are going to be ~300/pp.
20:22:21 <stickster> OK, mchua, would you be willing to check back in with the companies you already contacted, and add the company that services the Red Hat office in Westford to see if they're able to cut us a deal? They have larger buses available IIRC.
20:22:23 <mchua> So that's the price we're going to want to beat (noting that it will be *way* more expensive if people book later.)
20:22:41 <stickster> mchua: I think if we can get 15+ people on the bus we'll probably come out way ahead using the bus option.
20:22:44 <mchua> #action mchua check with bus companies, including the RH Westford shuttlebus company, and see what they can do for us given reqs.
20:22:58 <mchua> stickster: ok. do we need to get confirmation that there will be 15+ folks before we decide?
20:22:59 <stickster> #action mchua check with bus companies, including the RH Westford shuttlebus company, and see what they can do for us given reqs.
20:23:01 * ctyler notes that, for reference, the bus we took down cost us ~$4500 cdn w/ AC, iirc
20:23:02 <mchua> stickster: or is that a gamble we're gonna make?
20:23:19 * stickster can't remember if zodbot takes actions from everyone.
20:23:33 <stickster> #halp
20:23:45 <stickster> Oh well, never mind.
20:24:02 <mchua> stickster: oh, you're right - I think only the meeting chair can... eh, we'll find out soon
20:24:04 <stickster> mchua: I'll be able to tell in the next week or so whether we can get >15. My bet is, it's not going to be a problem.
20:24:09 * mchua nods and agrees
20:24:32 <stickster> We have somewhere around 10 people just in local Fedora folks, not counting people from Desktop, BaseOS, others.
20:24:32 <mchua> wow, we've got a lot of Toronto folks in this meeting, awesome
20:24:51 <mchua> stickster: are the riders going to chip in for bus fare?
20:25:07 <stickster> One of the things that's very helpful to know already -- thanks ctyler! -- is that the hotel is very cheap, meaning that Red Hatters from other teams probably can eke out funding to attend
20:25:48 <stickster> mchua: I don't expect so -- but spot and I have a fund for FUDCon that will *probably* cover the majority of the bus costs
20:26:15 <mchua> Woo!
20:26:25 * mchua goes to take notes in gobby on all this
20:26:38 <mchua> stickster: do we want a task queue for FUDCon tasks? I can make a component in mktg trac if that would work
20:26:47 <stickster> The remainder we would either get mspevack to pay for, or otherwise go the "contribute to the kitty" route
20:27:10 * stickster not sure a task queue is needed, but if it makes your life easier, go for it
20:27:17 * stickster will happily participate :-))
20:27:22 <stickster> (that was my double chin)
20:27:37 <stickster> mchua: Want an action for that?
20:28:06 <stickster> #action mchua Create task queue in the Marketing trac for FUDCon related tasks
20:28:18 <mchua> okeydokey
20:28:21 <stickster> OK, we spent a bunch of time on bus, sorry about that'
20:28:32 <stickster> But it does help us get another few dozen people, so probably important :-)
20:28:47 <ctyler> :-)
20:29:28 <stickster> A very small number of people will *have* to fly there -- notably abadger1999, notting, and myself (oh, and Comm-Arch people)
20:29:54 <stickster> And of course we are going to try to sponsor some of our contributors too.
20:30:18 <stickster> We can look at that once we have bus and other costs sorted out, so we have more certainty of what's left in the pot.
20:30:26 <stickster> ctyler: So, I'll move on to food now!
20:30:37 <stickster> #topic FUDCon planning -- foodz
20:30:50 <stickster> We have an open topic on the list about lunches on hackfest days.
20:31:02 <stickster> We definitely want to provide bag/box lunches of some sort on the technical session day for preregistrants.
20:31:50 <stickster> In general, we've usually tried to provide either morning snacks or lunch (sometimes both depending on costs) on the hackfest days.
20:32:06 <stickster> Thanks to ctyler's superior haggling skills we have discount breakfast vouchers at the hotel for breakfast
20:32:24 <stickster> And it's a significant discount, down from $15 -> $6 for a buffet
20:32:57 <stickster> So what I'm thinking is that in the interest of keeping costs down (and increasing our ability to buy some contributors plane tickets) we would want to skip coffee on the hackfest days, and offer lunch instead
20:32:58 <ctyler> We've used bag/box lunches in the past, do you want to continue with that, or would a sandwich buffet (like day 2 of FSOSS last year, if you remember) be OK?
20:33:10 * spevack loves that his only responsibility in life is to provide the credit card
20:33:14 <stickster> ctyler: A sandwich buffet sounds just fine to me.
20:33:25 <spevack> /nick ScroogeMcDuck
20:33:31 <stickster> :-D
20:33:48 <ctyler> I suppose box/bag is easier to limit to just preregistrants, though
20:34:04 <stickster> ctyler: That's true, but we can also use the badges to sort people out
20:34:15 <stickster> i.e. If you have one, you pre-registered and you get first dibs in line ;-)
20:34:38 <ctyler> We're just negotiating with our in-house foodservice for FSOSS, and we can negotiating this as part of the deal.
20:34:50 <ctyler> s/can negotiating/can try negotiating/
20:34:56 <stickster> Sounds like we might all get a pretty good deal out of that, ctyler
20:35:05 * stickster would suggest we do something a little different on each of the hackfest days
20:35:21 <stickster> There's a side benefit to lunch on hackfest days -- people stay at the site rather than wandering off
20:35:23 <ctyler> For reasons I can't fathom, our head of IT can twist the arm of the foodservice folks to a ridiculous extent.
20:35:37 <stickster> ctyler: Taking down their POS if they give him trouble? ;-)
20:35:44 <ctyler> Prolly.
20:35:58 <stickster> What do people think about the lunch idea vs. coffee service?
20:36:09 <ctyler> So for Pizza, we have a Pizza Pizza on-site, and they're good, but crazy-expensive -- cheaper to order in from outside.
20:36:20 <ctyler> Even if from Pizza Pizza.
20:36:25 <stickster> ha
20:36:28 <stickster> OK, so noted
20:36:36 * mchua doesn't care, honestly, so long as copious amounts of food are available; I am generally hungry.
20:36:38 <stickster> #info For pizza, order from outside
20:36:55 * spevack will buy mchua all the BBQ she wants next week
20:36:56 * mchua also wants to make sure there are vegetarian/vegan options, not sure if we need to accomodate other food prefs.
20:37:00 <mchua> spevack: YAY!
20:37:15 <ctyler> For coffee, there's a Tim Horton's on-site, which to a Canadian is like crack, but you tend to like it stronger south of the border.
20:37:29 <mchua> So, food is kind of a big thing, but also something that can only really be done locally..
20:37:38 <stickster> mchua: Absolutely -- noted in my reply to the list, we absolutely need to have vegetarian options for a couple dozen people (going by past FUDCons), and vegan for a handful
20:37:41 <mchua> should we set reqs and a budget, and let ctyler and the Toronto folks do their thing?
20:38:38 <stickster> mchua: Not a bad idea
20:38:54 <jon_vanalten> i don't know how far ahead you guys plan on having preregistration, but perhaps food prefs can be incorporated into registration process?
20:38:57 <stickster> mchua: ctyler: Looking at previous FUDCons, I'm guessing we need to keep total food budget for ~130 people at ~$2K
20:39:08 <stickster> jon_vanalten: Absolutely, we did that for the Boston fudcon
20:39:28 <stickster> You could mark "V" (vegetarian) or "VV" (vegan) on your registration line in the wiki for preferences.
20:39:42 <stickster> We also used that pre-registration process to capture shirt sizes for schwag.
20:39:51 <jon_vanalten> how about allergies?  gluten, dairy problems are not uncommon
20:40:01 <ctyler> So what combination of lunches (etc) do we need to fit in that budget? 3 lunches? 2 lunches plus coffee + snax?
20:40:32 <stickster> ctyler: That should cover 3 lunches.
20:40:37 <ctyler> k
20:40:50 <mchua> jon_vanalten: Vegan takes care of dairy allergies; gluten I think is uncommon enough that we can improvise for the 1-2 people if we need to
20:40:51 <stickster> ctyler: There's some room to maneuver there, too.
20:41:08 <ctyler> One sandwich buffet or bag lunches, one pizza lunch, any ideas for the others?
20:41:09 * mchua lived in a co-op with gluten allergies, milk allergies, vegans, vegetarians, etc. this summer and learned how to do that *really* well
20:41:20 <mchua> ctyler: got any "toronto cuisine"?
20:41:25 * mchua not familiar with the area
20:41:33 <stickster> mchua: That would be meat sandwiches ;-)
20:41:41 * mchua is okay with that!
20:41:46 <ctyler> overholt: Toronto cuisine ideas?
20:41:59 <overholt> downtown ideas
20:42:01 * ctyler scratches head over "Toronto" lunch (vs dinner)
20:42:09 * stickster thinks we can add to the list of lunch ideas on list
20:42:26 <overholt> Gandhi, California Sandwiches (which also has a Queensway location)
20:42:40 <stickster> #agreed ~$2K budget for 3 daily lunches; one sandwich buffet on Saturday, pizza on one hackfest day, <STH> on remaining day
20:42:56 <overholt> Toronto's a very international city so whatever we want we can get
20:43:05 <stickster> OK, moving on to housing in the interest of time
20:43:14 <stickster> #topic FUDCon planning -- lodging
20:43:20 <stickster> This is pretty much done, thanks to ctyler
20:43:35 * jds2001 just joined the list and this meeting. I can help with conference planning software in infra if that's not been completely ruled out yet, but I don't want to detract from this meeting right now with it (food is mo important! Fat guy likes to eat!) :)
20:43:38 <stickster> ctyler: That online registration is helpful -- is there any code people need to know for pre-reg?
20:43:48 <stickster> jds2001: I'll hang out afterward and we can talk :-)
20:43:57 <ctyler> I haven't checked lately, did they fix the reg page to say FUDCon instead of FEDCon?
20:44:24 <ctyler> The pre-reg code is 'FED' (!) but the online reg page fills it in automagically.
20:44:27 * stickster checks
20:44:47 <stickster> "Fedora's Extra Dynamic!"
20:45:05 <stickster> Ugh, the page still says "FEDCon" too
20:45:31 <mchua> Fedora... Elephants And Developers Conference
20:45:47 <jds2001> Fedora Education and developers conference :)
20:45:50 <ctyler> ok, I'll poke Hilton again.
20:45:51 <stickster> ctyler: I think you had looked into this -- would you like me to call them?
20:45:52 <mchua> jds2001: +1
20:45:55 <jds2001> fits in with the user track :)
20:46:17 <stickster> Putting the "you" back in "education"
20:46:23 <ctyler> stickster: I'll mail 'em back and CC you.
20:46:36 <stickster> ctyler: Awesome, I'm happy to jump in as "person with the company paying the bill" if it helps ;-)
20:46:48 <stickster> #action ctyler Email the HGI to get webpage corrected to read "FUDCon"
20:46:57 <stickster> OK, moving right along...
20:47:05 <stickster> #topic FUDCon planning -- FUDPub
20:47:10 <mchua> D&B!
20:47:15 <stickster> I think it's going to rock.
20:47:49 * jds2001 too.
20:47:57 <stickster> So I think the last time we talked about this I think we had a few open questions
20:48:00 * jds2001 hasn't been to one in ages, even though there's one down the block :)
20:48:08 <stickster> 1. Need better vegetarian options at FUDPub
20:48:19 <stickster> 2. What options to take for the event
20:48:45 <stickster> in terms of what we pay for
20:48:56 <jds2001> I think that non-alcoholic is the way to go, keeps cost down.
20:49:02 <stickster> For #1 -- ctyler, I think you said they have a better assortment than was clear in their proposal, yes?
20:49:30 <ctyler> Yes, they've promised that, but I asked for clarification and haven't heard back. Will do the analog-voice-call thing.
20:49:51 <stickster> #action ctyler Call D&B to determine better veggie options for FUDPub
20:50:15 <ctyler> It would be helpful if I knew #2 when calling.
20:50:18 <stickster> As for #2, I think jds2001 hit it on the head... It's not the cheapest place in the world to do FUDPub
20:50:25 <stickster> But will be a ton of fun for everyone
20:50:42 <stickster> So unless someone has objections, I would opt for us paying for food and non-alco beverages.
20:50:50 <jds2001> asking a bunch of people to pay a little if they want drinks is not unreasonable imo
20:50:57 <ctyler> So pool rooms + buffet + unlimited coffee/tea/soda
20:51:13 <stickster> There is a slight ulterior motive, which is that hopefully people will not party *so* hard that they don't make it to hackfest in the morning ;-)
20:51:16 <stickster> ctyler: Correct
20:51:41 <stickster> And I would also opt to leave midway action up to the individuals as well
20:51:51 * mchua suggests an action on the vegetarian++
20:51:51 <stickster> I'm sure people will take them up on it :-)
20:51:58 <stickster> mchua: go for it :-)
20:52:13 <mchua> stickster: i think you're the only one who can make them
20:52:21 <stickster> mchua: What's the suggestion?
20:52:29 * stickster will be the proxy :-)
20:52:45 <mchua> stickster: oh wait, you already put one up. nm. ("action ctyler call d&b to determine better veggie options")
20:52:49 <stickster> yup
20:52:52 <stickster> cool!
20:52:58 * mchua can haz reading skillz
20:53:00 <jds2001> stickster: you can use #chair to let other folks do things if you like :)
20:53:07 * stickster feels like a winner when he gets to something before The Mel
20:53:13 <stickster> jds2001: Oh cool!
20:53:13 <mchua> a winner is you!
20:53:15 <stickster> #chair mchua
20:53:15 <zodbot_> Current chairs: mchua stickster
20:53:23 <stickster> #chair ctyler
20:53:23 <zodbot_> Current chairs: ctyler mchua stickster
20:53:28 <stickster> Hell, I'll chair all y'all
20:53:40 <stickster> All right, so:
20:54:08 <stickster> #agreed Decided for D&B: We pay for party area (pool, etc) + buffet + unlimited non-alcobevs
20:54:24 * stickster is sorry we're running up to the hour with a bunch of things left
20:54:59 <stickster> In large terms, we have marketing, "other," budget, and sessions still up
20:55:14 * ctyler can run over hour
20:55:32 <stickster> Let's go until 2115 UTC/17:15 EDT and call it at that point
20:55:35 * overholt unfortunately has to run.  will catch up via mailing list.  ttyl
20:55:37 * stickster will barrel through
20:55:39 <stickster> Thanks overholt
20:55:39 * mchua can run over hour
20:55:45 <mchua> stickster: anything we absolutely have to bring up now?
20:55:49 <mchua> stickster: should we make this a weekly time?
20:55:59 * mchua checks schedulin' poll
20:56:04 <stickster> mchua: Yes, I was going to save that for the end, but I do believe we should do weekly.
20:56:09 <stickster> Aggh! I need to answer the poll
20:56:15 <stickster> mchua: Can you post that again here?
20:56:18 * jon_vanalten can lurk over hour
20:56:19 <mchua> http://whenisgood.net/r5fskz/results/bn94w9
20:56:45 <stickster> #link http://whenisgood.net/r5fskz/results/bn94w9 <-- results of weekly meeting time survey
20:56:54 <stickster> OK, will do that
20:57:08 <stickster> #action ALL -- answer weekly meeting time survey for next week's meeting
20:57:09 <mchua> http://whenisgood.net/r5fskz
20:57:15 <mchua> #link http://whenisgood.net/r5fskz
20:57:19 <stickster> supah
20:57:30 <stickster> OK, let's concentrate on the critical path stuff.
20:57:57 <stickster> I think that's the somewhat interconnected issues of sessions and software -- i.e. refereeing the tracks
20:58:08 <stickster> #topic FUDCon planning -- sessions/software
20:58:30 <stickster> Originally at POSSE time I had hoped to do something with real conference software to make this easier
20:58:47 <stickster> But with the Fedora release cycle starting to press in on us, including its infrastructure freezes, it might be getting dicey
20:58:53 <jds2001> so question you may not know the answer to
20:59:02 <stickster> jds2001: Shoot, my friend
20:59:07 <jds2001> how did the summit do it, and how do other conferences do it?
20:59:13 <stickster> jds2001: They hired a contractor :-)
20:59:23 <jds2001> :(
20:59:24 <stickster> jds2001: There *is* software available out there to do this
20:59:39 <stickster> CERN has one that relies on ZopeDB -- not sure if that works in RHEL 5?
20:59:39 <jds2001> herlo is doing something for UTOSC i know
20:59:54 <jds2001> Zope not so much I don't think
20:59:57 <stickster> jds2001: UTOSC uses a Django-based custom job that works quite well, also 100% FOSS (CERN is also 100% FOSS)
21:00:22 <mchua> pycon is making one based on django (100% FOSS) for themselves
21:00:28 <stickster> Unlike a for-pay conference, we have the ability to fudge our timeline a bit.
21:00:35 * ctyler notes we went custom for fsoss (django base)
21:00:48 <mchua> I think they're using it for their own stuff now, not sure how stable/usable it is or how feasible/how much work it would take to adapt for fudcon
21:00:49 <stickster> Most for-$$ conferences need to settle their sessions months in advance
21:01:05 <mchua> \o/ unconferences!
21:01:16 <stickster> mchua: We've been doing that for a *long* time in Fedora ;-)
21:01:40 <stickster> The problem is that for the last several FUDCons, we've been receiving increasing feedback on lower session quality
21:01:53 <stickster> Now admittedly, FUDCon is a free conference, but it doesn't mean it has to be lower quality
21:02:07 <jds2001> the last thing i want is "death by oo-impress"
21:02:14 <stickster> jds2001: Exactly
21:02:20 <stickster> Let me lay out what I was thinking
21:02:27 * stickster hates having to type all this, he's not fast enough.
21:02:44 <stickster> We have room for many tracks
21:03:14 <stickster> I would like to have 1-2 for users, preferably with one of them (or the only one) as a general "using Fedora" track, if that's going to be palatable to attendees
21:03:20 * stickster thinking of LUG outreach there.
21:03:22 <mchua> So... wait, if FUDCon is kickin' it Real Unconference style, we don't need to plan sessions in advance. At all.
21:03:33 <stickster> mchua: But we're not, that's the whole point
21:03:37 <mchua> Ok.
21:03:46 <jds2001> mchua: we've done that in the past.
21:03:51 <stickster> We've done 100% BarCamp in the past, and as a result we're starting to get complaints about the content quality
21:03:58 <mchua> I'm just remembering talking with Kaliya Hamlin (who is awesome! and runs unconferences for a living) about exactly this at CLS this summer
21:04:00 <stickster> So let me lay out the rest of the idea
21:04:06 <mchua> soliciting sessions in a way that makes them higher quality
21:04:16 <mchua> (in realtime, with no advance planning)
21:04:49 * mchua stops shooting off her mouth and lets stickster explain
21:05:04 <stickster> I'd like to "reserve" say, two rooms (tracks) for sessions gathered on the wiki, or whatever software we can get running quickly, that we think are so awesome they must be held
21:05:15 <stickster> Add to that one or two rooms for user track
21:05:34 <stickster> I believe we still have two to four rooms on top of that that could be used for BarCamp-style.
21:05:45 <stickster> So we don't have to veer 100% the other way.
21:05:48 <stickster> We can have a mixed format.
21:05:55 <stickster> There is another point to this
21:06:19 <stickster> Which is that we are trying to get plenty of participation from the Red Hat YYZ engineers, 95%+ of whom have never been to a FUDCon
21:06:39 <stickster> I want to make sure they have an opportunity to talk about the interesting stuff they do with tools, compilers, Eclipse, Java, etc.
21:07:00 <ctyler> Question: we usually lay out the barcamp sessions according to interest. How do we know which of the non-barcamp sessions will attract a lot of people? You don't want to put a hot barcamp session against a hot pre-planned session.
21:07:09 <stickster> And we can use some of the pre-decided content to go out to the LUGs and other groups and say, "Look at all this cool content we can *guarantee* will be there"
21:07:37 <stickster> ctyler: If we were using something like UTOSC's software, you can gather votes on the abstracts
21:07:47 <stickster> I don't want to gather anything *other* than abstracts if we go that route
21:08:00 <ctyler> Sounds good
21:08:02 <stickster> I don't want people putting together boring slide shows, I'd rather they show up and just engage the audience
21:08:11 <stickster> mchua: Does this make sense to you?
21:08:26 <mchua> stickster: Yep.
21:08:30 <stickster> BTW, the point isn't to set aside 100% of the pre-decided track(s) for Red Hat people.
21:08:42 <mchua> stickster: do we have someone running the unconference session-making part of things?
21:08:48 <mchua> (is that you, at the beginning?)
21:08:58 <stickster> mchua: GDK used to do this, I guess I do it now :-)
21:09:27 <stickster> So...
21:09:33 <stickster> the open questions, then, are:
21:09:34 <jds2001> gdk was so good at it :)
21:09:44 <stickster> 1. Can we get software up and running in, say, the next 7-10 days?
21:10:10 <stickster> 2. Do people agree that we can do a mixed format like this?
21:10:35 <ctyler> 2. It's definitely worth a shot.
21:10:58 * stickster is eager to experiment, we've been pretty set in our ways when it comes to FUDCon -- kind of unlike us :-)
21:11:12 <mchua> stickster: well, presumably gdk will also be at fudcon, right?
21:11:22 * mchua just making sure someone's appointed to worry about it so it's off our plate
21:11:41 <stickster> mchua: My bet is yes, he will, but he will not take on the BarCamp.
21:11:49 * ctyler was wondering if stickster and/or mchua will be @fsoss
21:12:06 <stickster> Greg has pretty much BTDT and handed it off to me @Boston in January.
21:12:09 <jds2001> stickster: i think opening up the planning process like this is a big step forward in becoming un-set in our ways :)
21:12:11 <mchua> stickster: I've run unconferences in the past, if that's of any use. Can be minion, or whatever.
21:12:31 <stickster> mchua: I would be happy for you to be involved to any extent you want, up to and including running the BarCamp.
21:12:34 <mchua> ctyler: re: fsoss, I'd sure hope so.
21:12:52 <stickster> I'm not going to be at FSOSS unfortunately this year, ran out of $$
21:13:00 <ctyler> oh noes!
21:13:03 <stickster> But gdk will, i know for sure
21:13:12 <mchua> stickster: ...let's see what other FUDCon stuff lands on my plate first, but I /think/ I could do that. FUDCon is... big.
21:13:21 * mchua can figure this out with stickster later though.
21:13:25 <stickster> mchua: The nice thing about BarCamp is it's pretty much show up and shout.
21:13:31 <stickster> I can help with shouting ;-)
21:13:33 <mchua> #action stickster and mchua to figure out Somebody To Run The Unconference
21:13:37 <stickster> brilliant.
21:13:37 <mchua> yay!
21:13:46 <stickster> So the harder question is #1.
21:13:55 <stickster> jds2001: You semi-raised a hand to help with the software angel.
21:13:59 <stickster> *angle ... heh
21:14:07 * jds2001 is willing to help with that yeah
21:14:18 <jds2001> i just dont know what software/etc
21:14:21 <stickster> Are we kidding ourselves that we can get something up and running in the course of a week?
21:14:29 <jds2001> probably :)
21:14:49 <jds2001> especially anything requiring fas integration, etc.
21:14:57 <stickster> Look, I don't want to overshoot and have a failure screw up FUDCon.
21:15:03 <stickster> I think we might be better off doing things this way:
21:15:06 <jds2001> maybe we can try for future fudcon's though?
21:15:12 <stickster> jds2001: 'zactly
21:15:13 <jds2001> stickster: +1000
21:15:21 <stickster> * take pre-reg and sessions on the wiki
21:15:36 <stickster> * continue to hold transparent meetings on IRC, including refereeing
21:15:39 * mchua offers to take on FUDCon wiki maintenance
21:15:56 <mchua> (meaning that I'll make sure it stays synced with both these meetings and the mailing list)
21:16:03 <mchua> (...on at least a weekly basis)
21:16:14 <stickster> mchua: I think we can probably all help -- it's one of the less burdensome parts of doing things -- but yeah, ride it (and us) hard to keep us honest
21:16:36 <stickster> So
21:16:38 <stickster> honestly
21:17:00 <stickster> ctyler has done so much of the really hard site work that I already feel like we're 50-60% of the way to the finish line
21:17:07 <tw2113> woo!
21:17:16 <stickster> It's very hard work to get venue details, catering, transpo, etc. all figured out
21:17:21 * tw2113 acts as a temporary cheerleader
21:17:28 <stickster> Especially when you're remote from the site. I know from doing this for Boston last year.
21:17:39 <stickster> So, three months out from the event, we are doing GREAT.
21:17:56 * stickster notices we're 2 min past the stop time.
21:17:57 <mchua> YAY!
21:18:03 <stickster> OK, I'm going to ask everyone for 5 more min
21:18:06 <stickster> Let's wrap up
21:18:14 <stickster> #topic FUDCon planning -- wrap-up
21:18:26 <stickster> I want to send email to the announcement lists with the details we have now.
21:18:41 * mchua looks at gobby
21:18:44 <stickster> Oh wait
21:18:54 <stickster> my adverb use is unclear
21:19:04 <jds2001> stickster: do we want to wait for the hotel page to be cleared up?
21:19:06 <stickster> I want to send email to the lists *soon* with the details we have now
21:19:30 <mchua> stickster: can you add a "help us plan! meetings! mailing list! things you could help us do!" section?
21:19:50 <stickster> oops -- Are we agreed that we'll just use the wiki, and look for ways to get conference software for the next FUDCon?
21:19:57 * mchua tries to stuff legitimate peripheral participation in as many crevices as possible
21:19:59 <stickster> mchua: Absolutely, feel free to throw that in there
21:20:00 <mchua> stickster: +1
21:20:06 * mchua edits The Gobby
21:20:17 <stickster> ctyler: Sound good to you?
21:20:29 <ctyler> stickster: Whoops, I think I forgot to add your CC to the nasty Hilton mail a half-hour ago.
21:20:35 <stickster> ctyler: Ha!
21:20:39 <stickster> Well, bounce it over to me, that's fine
21:20:41 <ctyler> s/nasty/gentle shove/
21:21:11 <ctyler> Plans sound good.
21:21:13 <stickster> #agreed We'll use the wiki for pre-reg and session planning this FUDCon, and shoot for more full-featured conference software for next FUDCon
21:22:02 <stickster> OK, so to send this email we need closure from the hotel, and that's it
21:22:08 <stickster> I think that brings us to the end for today.
21:22:15 <stickster> Sorry about the overtime, everyoen.
21:22:21 <stickster> *and my typing.
21:22:42 * stickster is not as fast or ruthless as mchua in his meeting skillz
21:22:49 <jds2001> stickster: mine's worse, I guarantee it :)
21:22:58 <stickster> ANY OTHER BUSINESS?
21:23:03 <ctyler> same time, same place next week?
21:23:14 <mchua> stickster: gobby haz section o' "join us" -ness
21:23:17 <stickster> ctyler: I think the idea is to check in on the link for the survey
21:23:24 <stickster> ctyler: for meeting times
21:23:26 <stickster> mchua: awesome, thanks
21:23:38 * mchua heads off to make the queue in trac, nothing more to add
21:23:44 <stickster> Coolz
21:23:57 <stickster> End meeting in...
21:23:58 <stickster> 5
21:24:00 <stickster> 4
21:24:02 <stickster> 3
21:24:04 <stickster> 2
21:24:06 <stickster> 1
21:24:09 <stickster> #endmeeting