22:51:30 #startmeeting 22:51:32 Meeting started Tue Mar 30 22:51:30 2010 UTC. The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 22:51:33 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 22:51:45 This is an intro to how to make feature profiles. w00t! 22:51:51 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F13_in-depth_features 22:51:57 nmarques: That's the list of feature profiles we're doing so far. 22:52:10 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features 22:52:21 mchua, a bit off-topic 22:52:30 Those are examples of the ones we made for the last release. They're good representative samples of what we're aiming for again. 22:52:33 mchua, from the SWOT post I got a lot of matherial about SELinux ;) 22:52:41 (Although this time we'd like to broaden into other media - podcasts, videos, etc.) 22:52:50 mchua, so if someday we are planning on those, I got the stuff :) 22:52:55 * mchua grins 22:53:16 #info That's the list of feature profiles we're doing so far for F13, and examples of what we did for F12. 22:53:20 * mchua taking notes for posterity 22:53:36 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Feature_profiles 22:53:53 #info that's the main landing page for feature profiles - it links to all the ones we've done in the past, along with the SOP on how to make them. 22:54:03 #info "Feature profiles are profiles of specific Fedora features for which the Marketing team creates extra collateral such as interviews, podcasts, or other materials." 22:54:03 mchua, I've gathered some information regarding networkmanager 22:54:15 mchua, I know it started in 2004 by Red Hat with X and Y goals, etc 22:54:30 mchua, Novell worked out on KNetworkManager and so on 22:54:33 Yep. And a bit of that history is good. 22:54:50 nmarques: For feature profiles for a release, we're primarily aiming at covering the improvements made for that release. 22:54:57 "What's new in NetworkManager for F13?" 22:55:01 "How did that come to be?" 22:55:10 It's a story of what people have been doing in the past 6 months. 22:55:12 mchua, so the most important is 0.8.0 ? 22:56:03 nmarques: I'd say the most important are the features highlighted in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Talking_Points#NetworkManager_improvements_include_CLI (and if that's 0.8.0 that they appeared in, yes.) 22:56:39 mchua, do we have someone already in mind to interview ? 22:56:43 ...and maybe, "who are thesee features good for?" 22:56:59 nmarques: Yep! (This is helpful, btw - you're making us articulate what feature profiles are for.) 22:57:02 if you look at feature_list and click on network manager - it should say who is working on it. 22:57:17 nmarques: So, if you look at the individual features linked to at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Talking_Points#NetworkManager_improvements_include_CLI 22:57:25 for instance, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerBluetoothDUN 22:57:29 err, not feature-list 22:57:32 you'll see an owner 22:57:34 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerBluetoothDUN#Owner 22:57:35 in this case 22:57:41 plus contact info. 22:57:51 nmarques: that's your interviewee list. ;) or at least it's an easy place to start. 22:58:15 * mchua swaps into notetaking mode 22:58:16 mchua, indeed 22:58:29 now just for my information 22:58:35 since we're stuck with 500 words 22:58:43 #info For featuer profiles for a release, we're primarily aiming at covering the improvements made for that release - for instance, "What's new in NetworkManager for F13? How did that come to be?" It's a story of what people have been doing in the last 6 months. 22:59:01 nmarques: Sorry, forget the 500 word limit... there's no limit, but keeping it to magazine-article-length is usually good. 22:59:12 nmarques: That was more a random guess on my part than anything else, and I was wrong. 22:59:24 nmarques: for instance, rbergeron did a something like... 2000 word one last time, and it was *great* 22:59:29 mchua, 500 words is enough for 2/3 pages ;) 23:00:11 mchua, I'm taking a couple of seconds to organize bookmarks with this info 23:00:26 mchua, keep posting usefull stuff, cause I will read it shortly ;) 23:00:38 mchua, specially what you have in mind, like structure and such 23:00:56 no limit! 23:00:57 mchua, and if someone is working/worked on something familiar for reference, please point it 23:01:01 we want people to read lots of content 23:01:17 and we want enough content that we can recycle into shorter, printable versions when appropriate 23:01:23 #info Feature profiles are consequently based on interviews with the developers. 23:01:45 #info An easy way to find interviewees for a feature profile is to go to the Talking Points for that release, and click through to the feature pages for the talking point you're covering. 23:02:01 #info Each feature page will have an owner, and there will be contact information for that owner; oftentimes, that's the developer you want to interview. 23:02:06 * rbergeron also notes - Feature profiles shouldn't just be a way to advertise what fedora has - it's also a way for the community to get a more in depth look at what poeple are working on, that they can't always see because they're so busy doing their stuff. 23:02:09 Yep. Remixability of content == good. 23:02:16 and really - it's a great way to allow a developer to have their time "to shine" 23:02:24 #info Feature profiles shouldn't just be a way to advertise what fedora has - it's also a way for the community to get a more in depth look at what poeple are working on, that they can't always see because they're so busy doing their stuff. 23:02:41 #info Feature profiles are a great opportunity for developers to have "their chance to shine." Highlight the good work people are doing. 23:02:55 one thing 23:02:56 we shouldn't ever cut anyone off in their moment of glory and say, "sorry, 500 word limit" - please please, we want to hear EVERYTHING you'er doing, becasue it's awesome, and interesting. 23:03:21 #info Feature profiles should be remixable content - people can and will respin them into other pieces for blogging, denting, filming, printing, press kits, etc. 23:03:31 #info There is no word limit for feature profiles, consequently. 23:04:12 should also through interview or article provide a brief description of the tools that are used during this process? like version management, etc. Advertising this tools and work method/interaction between people might be a good idea to get a favourable point for people who *might* get involved with Fedora in the future 23:04:19 it's not just that we are profiling a -feature- - we're also featuring the work that went into it, and the developers who worked on it. 23:04:35 rbergeron, this is not a moment of glory ;) 23:04:56 rbergeron, I got my moment of glory long ago ;) 23:05:07 i disagree - people aren't working on things for their health :) 23:05:29 nmarques - have you read the cathedral and the bazaar yet? 23:06:34 rbergeron, I've never heard of such 23:06:58 rbergeron, can u provide amazon links ? 23:07:14 rbergeron, if you find it relevant I'll take some time to dig into it 23:07:18 no, i can do better - 23:07:20 http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/homesteading/ 23:07:23 it's free to read. 23:07:31 and there's even a portuguese translation 23:07:32 :D 23:07:50 rbergeron, but it's not easier to read :( there's costs with paper and toner... :( 23:08:25 ok 23:08:26 not everyone agrees with raymond - but most eople will agree this is one of THE books to read if you want to understand the open source mindset 23:08:27 nmarques: that's all I can think of in terms of how to get started on your feature profile. 23:08:36 nmarques: it's not a horrifically long book 23:08:45 mchua, use the wiki for it or any other tool ? 23:08:51 nmarques: start by looking at the feature owners for the 3 features listed as part of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Talking_Points#NetworkManager_improvements_include_CLI 23:08:52 oh, portuguese translation link is broken 23:08:55 FAIL 23:09:03 nmarques: and contact those developers and say "hey, I'd like to interview you on how you made this feature" 23:09:10 rbergeron, I can read it in English, Spanish and maybe German 23:09:16 rbergeron, maybe Dutch as well 23:09:23 nmarques: Yep, we do it on the wiki. 23:09:30 http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/homesteading/cathedral-bazaar/ 23:09:40 it's a short series of webpages you can read through 23:09:45 #info Feature profiles are written on the wiki - you link to them from that release's feature profile page (for instance, for F13, that page is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F13_in-depth_features) 23:10:03 rbergeron, not reading this now, but bookmarked 23:10:09 rbergeron, just a question, becoming a hacker ? 23:10:26 me? 23:10:38 rbergeron, I thought it was enough to own the FDA in 96 was enough :( 23:10:58 * rbergeron isn't following 23:11:19 rbergeron, foreign affairs ministery of Indonesia 23:11:57 rbergeron, nevermind 23:12:06 rbergeron, some thing better stay in the obscurity 23:12:08 * rbergeron got out of the hacker thing a long time ago 23:12:20 * mchua is still a hacker, never been a cracker though. 23:12:45 hacker whats that? 23:12:58 mchua, disambiguation... anyway it was "cracker" stuff that brought me into linux and networking ;) 23:13:03 back to the document 23:13:06 it's when the FBI shows up at your house and confiscates all your stuff because your roommates are morons 23:13:11 which is far more important 23:13:21 rbergeron, instead of FBI, I got a nice job ;) 23:13:33 rbergeron: what about team mates? 23:13:35 rbergeron, so did the crew ;) 23:13:49 now 23:13:50 nmarques: Yep. Do you think you've got enough to get started, or are there any things we've missed that are blocking you right now? 23:13:55 * mchua can't think of anything else, honestly 23:14:00 mchua, missing the more important 23:14:08 hackers / crackers are in for glory, though - if you interview a hacker, they'll talk a little about what they got into, but the important thing is how they did it 23:14:12 nmarques: what's that? 23:14:13 that's what they want to talk about 23:14:15 oh, audience! 23:14:17 mchua, interviews, how are we going to conduct it? 23:14:36 mchua, by email? written or through audio? 23:14:36 * rbergeron notes that - in feature profiles - we're not just emphasizing fedora -the distro-, but also fedora -the community- 23:14:39 #info The audience for feature profiles is a general Fedora user audience - don't necessarily assume technical familiarity! 23:14:48 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_base 23:14:59 #info in feature profiles - we're not just emphasizing fedora -the distro-, but also fedora -the community 23:15:02 mchua - does that really apply to things like feature profiles on python? 23:15:05 mchua, and another thingg, how are such articles structured ? 23:15:25 mchua, Introduction > Development (and sub families) > Conclusion / Review ? 23:15:51 rbergeron, PERL! 23:16:02 lol 23:16:04 rbergeron: I think a good rule of thumb is "look at the talking points section the feature was placed in, write for that audience" 23:16:15 mchua: good point. 23:16:38 nmarques: We don't have a formal template, though if you look at the past feature profiles you'll get an idea of structure... it's very conversational/informal, and reads exactly like an interview (because it is). 23:16:58 * tell me about yourself - what do you do, where do you work? 23:17:05 mchua, can I get a off-Fedora insight as well ? 23:17:09 #info Feature profile interviews can be conducted in a variety of ways - IRC is common, as is email, or for podcast, audio, etc. It doesn't really matter as long as the final edited version is made available via the wiki. 23:17:12 * tell me about this feature 23:17:17 mchua, like a support interview from someone from GNOME ? ;) 23:17:20 (ie: what it is) 23:17:32 * what drove the need to create / enhance / upgrade this feature? 23:17:35 nmarques: Sure, absolutely! Though the focus of the profile should be on the story of the developer(s) who made the feature(s). 23:17:43 * how was the community involved? 23:17:44 #chair rbergeron nmarques 23:17:45 Current chairs: mchua nmarques rbergeron 23:17:50 rbergeron: now you can #info those points too ;) 23:18:14 #info possible questions - * tell me about yourself, what do you do, where do you work? 23:18:18 mchua, any special Categories for the wiki ? 23:18:20 #info how didyou get involved in Fedora? 23:18:26 #info tell me about this feature 23:18:40 #info what drove the need to create / enhance / upgrade this feature? 23:18:47 # info how was the community involved? 23:19:26 nmarques: Categories: Marketing | Feature profiles | F 23:19:30 * nmarques on "Highway to Hell" by AC/DC 23:19:47 ok 23:20:01 #info (not an interview questions) - look at other activities inside fedora. is this used in fedora infrastructure? was there a "fedora test day" done to test this feature? look at the wiki page - tons of information? are there screenshots to be used.. or is the interviewee interested in making some screenshots for the interview? 23:20:42 #info does this feature make the developers day-to-day work easier? 23:20:53 #info robyn is just listing random possible questions to ask 23:21:22 this stuff brings me back the old days with rc.local scripts for PPP networking 23:21:25 lawl 23:21:34 #info when making questions - be familiar with the Feature. try to anticipate what answers might be, so that you can make the next question flow from the previous answer. 23:21:58 rbergeron, good point, an interview should be prepared before hand :) 23:22:10 mchua, another thing 23:22:23 #info don't just have a free-flow interview - have questions ready! 23:22:24 * mchua has to run for dinner fairly soon; guest has arrived and food is mostly ready 23:22:27 nmarques: Yes? 23:22:35 mchua, is it possible to jack zodbot for the interview ? :) 23:22:47 YES! 23:23:08 or schedule it in #fedora-meeting-1 - look at the meetin room schedule, see if an unused time slot is available 23:23:08 #info *please* use zodbot for the interview, it makes your life much easier! 23:23:18 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot 23:23:22 mchua, rbergeron thx for the support on this 23:23:33 I'll try to come out with something good :) 23:23:40 #info be aware of your interviewee's availability - try to make it as easy as can be on them as far as time goes 23:23:49 I'll try my best, let's hope my best is enough ;) 23:23:55 #action mchua turn this into a SOP later tonight 23:24:10 mchua - i'll be around if you want to gobbify before wikify 23:24:14 nmarques: Ask questions as you go along, and you'll do fine - it's easy to edit an interview after you've got the text for it. ;) 23:24:48 rbergeron: Okeydokey. Might be a fairly long dinner tonight, we have a guest over. But I'll be back afterwards to work on this + cleanup from today's class, so the rest of Marketing can find out what the heck's been going on. 23:25:02 rbergeron, nmarques: I gotta jet, so close the logs whenever you're ready. 23:25:05 (And thanks to you both!) 23:25:10 * rbergeron nods - i'll be up till 1 or 2 probably, which is about whenyour bedtime usually is anyhow. :) 23:25:12 mchua_afk, go for it 23:25:23 yep - i'm gonna go make popsicles 23:25:40 nselson - any other impending questions? :) 23:26:00 rbergeron, not yet, maybe later on, your help has been wonderful alongside with mel 23:26:04 the interview part / doing questions - like she said - is the important content, we can trim it or fill in with text as needed. 23:26:26 just ping me if you have questions if you're owrking on it this afternoon - i'll be popping in and out, just yell my nick out :) 23:26:41 otherwise - i'm gonna close the logs for now 23:26:47 rbergeron, not in this afternoon for sure, it's 00:26 AM ;) 23:26:48 unless you want to #info to yourself :) 23:26:52 sounds good 23:26:53 rbergeron, go for it 23:26:54 i'll catch you later 23:26:57 #endmeeting