15:05:52 #startmeeting 15:05:52 Meeting started Thu Apr 15 15:05:52 2010 UTC. The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:05:54 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:06:11 One second. To everyone in the channel - I'm going to repost what I just said to brankf, so there will be a message flood. Apologies in advance. 15:06:26 15:03 < mchua> brankf: I think there are multiple people in your class doing feature profiles, so making sure that this information gets out to them as well would be very helpful. 15:06:31 15:03 < mchua> brankf: Are you on the marketing list? 15:06:33 15:03 < mchua> brankf: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Feature_profiles has all the links I'd recommend looking at. 15:06:37 15:03 < brankf> okay. thanks :) 15:06:39 15:04 < mchua> brankf: The SOP is not yet complete (suggestions on how to improve these instructions are welcome) but the section you'll want to look at is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Feature_profiles_SOP#Write_the_feature_profiles. 15:06:44 15:04 -!- kobelev [~vali@89.121.200.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:06:46 15:04 < mchua> brankf: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_feature_profiles#Features has the ones we made for the last release, as examples. 15:06:50 15:04 < mchua> brankf: It doesn't mean they're all necessarily good. ;) Some are probably overly technical. But it's what we've done in the past. 15:06:53 15:05 < mchua> brankf: And https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_feature_profiles contains the ones we're working on for this release, so this is where your work will go as well. 15:06:56 * rbergeron will be around in a bit - have to get the little lady to school ;) 15:06:58 15:05 < mchua> brankf: I'm working on this feature profile: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Python_in_Fedora_13 15:07:01 15:05 < mchua> brankf: so you can see the work-in-progress there. 15:07:04 15:05 < mchua> Oh! We should log. 15:07:06 (That's the end of the backlog paste, so we can get it logged by zodbot. Onwards!) 15:07:42 mchua: so we would need to highlight the features under the FEATURES heading and explain and show screenshots of the software? 15:07:54 #chair jadudm 15:07:54 Current chairs: jadudm mchua 15:08:02 brankf: Which feature profile are you working on? 15:08:22 * mchua trying to understand what, exactly, it is that you are looking to do. 15:09:39 mchua: which are open to complete/ 15:09:40 ? 15:10:59 brankf: Ah, you haven't chosen a feature yet? 15:12:29 mchua: no.. I am still having trouble running fedora, virtualbox is being mean and loads the small bar at the bottom then quits interacting with the disc.. 15:12:55 brankf: wow, that actually just happened to me 15:13:12 Does anyone have anymore ideas for using twitter to promote fedora? 15:14:28 gtho1: yeah.. i'm not experienced in the VM world so I am not sure how to approach it. Matt gave us step by step procedures in setting it up but I still cannot get it to work 15:15:24 mchua, if you have time for a personal opinion, I could use one ;) 15:16:08 nmarques: Go for it. 15:16:23 mchua, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NetworkManager_in_Fedora_13 15:16:28 mchua, ignore the formating for now 15:16:28 krassen: What ideas do you have so far? ;) 15:16:36 mchua, do you think it became out of scope ? 15:16:37 brankf: ^^ nmarques is also working on a feature profile. 15:16:50 brankf: if you want to see another person's approach to it. 15:17:19 mchua, I've used the interview to give a different approach more oriented to potential developers/contributors 15:17:32 mchua, because Dan's docs on the wiki are so complete :) 15:17:34 brankf: Ok - I was just telling gtho1 in the othe channel that if it's taking too long to get Fedora to work in your VM, put that aside for now and focus on getting in contact with the developers for your feature. 15:17:49 mchua: We made a twitter page and a wiki page for fedora. We're trying to show how twitter can be an effective marketing tool for fedora on the wiki page 15:17:51 brankf: Though it sounds like we may first need to help you pick a feature, is that correct? 15:18:02 krassen: Awesome. Can you point me to that page? 15:18:03 krassen, it is ;) 15:18:04 mchua: yes that is correct 15:18:26 brankf: Ok. Would you like to help me with the Python feature profile? I could use a hand. 15:18:34 krassen, twitter and facebook marketing deployed 30.000 people on a store in London. The police almost had to deal with a riot ;) 15:18:44 brankf: I interviewed the developer already, but I'm not sure how much we were talking in English, and how much we were talking in geeky acronyms. ;) 15:18:52 brankf: so I could use a reader, and a gauge for that. 15:19:27 brankf, mind if I ask a question ? 15:19:27 mchua: that's quite alright with me. there are two others in my group following along now. should i read over the interview on the link you sent me? 15:19:33 nmarques: sure 15:19:40 mchua: here is the link to the wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Twitter_sop 15:19:44 brankf, what feature you doing ? 15:19:49 threethirty: Are you around? We could use some thoughts on video hosting. 15:19:59 * stickster hopefully clears up some clouds on the marketing list. 15:20:10 nmarques: brankf hasn't picked a feature yet, I just asked if helping me with the Python feature profile sounds like a good option. 15:20:21 stickster: Thank you for your ninjahood, sir. 15:20:23 mchua, ok :) 15:20:54 stickster, I was not attacking journalists :( 15:21:04 brankf: Yes, that would be awesome - if the three of you can look at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Python_in_Fedora_13#David_Malcolm and start shooting questions to me whenever there's something you go "uh, what is this?" that would be a *huge* help. 15:21:14 brankf: I'm not sure what terms we need to explain more, and such. 15:21:29 krassen: Taking a look at the page now, one second. 15:21:31 mchua: okay will do. 15:21:43 brankf: Thanks! 15:21:49 nmarques: I'm sorry I misunderstood your comments then! 15:22:00 nmarques: If I got confused, then probably other people did as well 15:22:41 krassen: Looks like a good start - I'm wondering about content. How do you (and later, we) decide what to tweet about, and how much? 15:22:48 nmarques: Looking at your feature profile now. 15:23:27 stickster, thats a problem I seem to have 15:23:39 stickster, thinking in native language and do free translations to english :( 15:23:44 nmarques: It's a risk of the language difference I think :-) 15:23:56 mchua: We're trying to attract new users to fedora. Right now we are not sure how often we should tweet about fedora 15:24:13 stickster, more or less, but I recon it was a bit agressive. 15:24:39 stickster, we all like the media, doesnt matter if they speak good or bad about us... at least they speak, and that's already good advertising 15:25:10 nmarques: Don't take it personally. I was just using the opportunity to make sure that everyone on the list knows that our approach on the marketing list is to steer clear of negativity (hopefully on all Fedora lists we can do this) 15:25:12 mchua, it's a weird a approach and an even more weird interview 15:26:04 stickster, I dont take things personally, I'm always open to dialog. And I actually see it in a good way, because there's probably lots of things I need to change... and letting go some hostility might be a good start 15:26:16 krassen: How often do *you* think we should tweet about Fedora? Nobody else here has an answer either, so at some point somebody's going to have to make one up. ;) 15:26:17 stickster, I did reflected on your post for quite some time 15:26:54 stickster, it was construtive, thats all that matters 15:27:33 I believe we should tweet anytime there is some huge update or progression of fedora 15:27:55 nmarques: Wow, that *is* a different approach to feature profiles. I actually like it quite a bit - one section I think would be good to add is a "I've read this interview and I'm intrigued by the new NetworkManager features, how do I try them out?" 15:28:15 krassen: Ok - how will you know when that happens? (What's your criteria for "some huge update/progression"?) 15:29:05 mchua, well, the real thing is that Dan pointed me out some stuff he had placed in the wiki 15:29:21 mchua, filling a page with double information... seemed unecessary work 15:29:39 mchua, as most people see networkmanager through the applets and not at low level actually 15:29:46 mchua: pretty much just any progress before fedora comes out will do 15:29:57 mchua, I thought it might be a good idea to kick in with some "recruiting" stuff on it ;) 15:30:19 mchua, highlight the the good people that contribute for us and share a bit about them and their environment with the community 15:30:36 mchua, in the hope that some people will actually do something useful with that information 15:30:54 mchua, plus, highlighting the point that even the most common users can contribute to NW, with bug reporting 15:31:04 mchua, which Dan provided a good webpage on how to do it 15:31:13 mchua, that was kinda my line of thought 15:31:30 mchua, though I'm having some difficulty in articulating the text in a more friendly way 15:31:39 mchua, I'm looking at it for quite some hours :( 15:31:58 mchua, if you and other people believe we should go on a more tech approach, we can do 15:32:25 mchua, but I would like to keep the development enviroment stuff and problems/fixes regarding potential contributors 15:32:39 mchua, which seems to be a problem for new people, so we could reduce the gap there somewhere 15:33:07 mchua, feel free to gather the firing squad if needed :) always open to comments/critics/suggestions on how to improve stuff 15:33:39 * nmarques notices on another retarded wall of text... 15:34:33 nmarques: Oh, definitely not a *more* technical approach! It's just that the links and the existing documentation seem pretty geek-centric to me. 15:35:07 nmarques: So having a screencast, or screenshots, or really simple "click here, now type this" set of instructions for "normal users" to try out NetworkManager would actually be a new, non-redundant, and very helpful bit of content to add. 15:35:16 mchua, ok, filling in some more stuff then 15:35:26 krassen: I'll keep pushing back on this - what criteria will you use to figure out what's "worthy" of a tweet? 15:35:43 mchua: the only part in which i get lost in the interview is the exception/traceback portion 15:35:48 krassen: Because people here will not necessarily poke you and say "you should tweet this." You'll have to decide for yourselves what to highlight, and when. 15:36:04 brankf: Ok - which part is that? 15:36:07 mchua, hmmz... what do you mean "click here", a howto sort of thing on how to configure NM ? 15:36:33 mchua, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/NetworkManager ? 15:37:03 nmarques: for instance, I wrote a tutorial on how to file bugs at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/BugSquad/Bug_Report 15:37:18 nmarques: they're screenshots with step-by-step instructions that novices can walk through to use a piece of software (in that case, trac.) 15:37:32 mchua: We just talked to matt. We're probably going to focus on using the wiki page to explain how to get involved with twitter. 15:37:33 brankf: I suppose we're assuming that people reading the interview know what Python is. :) 15:37:38 mchua, ok... I got way out of topic ;) 15:37:47 mchua, I'll work it out today still and keep my schedule 15:37:55 brankf: Actually, it may be easier to do this editing with the whole group in realtime. One second and I'll send you a link. 15:38:04 mchua, for a more user friendly approach ;) 15:38:28 brankf: Can you go here? http://piratepad.net/python-feature-profile 15:40:05 Awesome, we've got the python feature profile going in etherpad. 15:40:08 er, piratepad. 15:40:12 which is based on etherpad. 15:42:09 mchua: we got disconnected from piratepad.. 15:43:38 mchua: i clicked on the link again but it responds with the server being down? 15:46:51 brankf: Yeah, sometimes that happens - piratepad isn't so stable. We just have to wait a minute for it to come back. 15:47:45 mchua: okay will do 15:48:21 brankf: Once it loads, I'm copypasting the text from https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Python_in_Fedora_13&action=edit§ion=5 into there, and we can get started. So queue up your questions. :) 15:48:28 * mchua knows we don't have much time yet, but it should be enough. 15:48:31 to start, anyway. 15:49:16 i have been looking at the talking points and the release notes for F12. I noticed that there are a lot things on the release notes not on the talking points. where can we find this information about new programs and features? 15:50:17 *information not on the talking points 15:50:27 brankf: All righty, I got tired of waiting and switched to another website (same thing, different website) - can you head to http://typewith.me/python-feature-profile instead? 15:50:35 brankf: (Sorry about that. Didn't expect piratepad to have connectivity issues now.) 15:50:55 torbett: Yep - the talking points are a subset of the features (they're the ones we want to highlight.) 15:51:05 torbett: You can find the full list of features for the F13 release at.... (one sec, getting link) 15:51:45 torbett: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/FeatureList 15:51:52 torbett: That's pretty much got *everything.* 15:52:03 torbett: Whether it's well-organized/coherent is a different matter. :) 15:52:06 torbett: so, not every feature is a talking point - talking points tend to be things that people who don't read release notes (read release notes readers as really hard core geeks) care about. In addition features are just a subset of changes that are occurring that have met with a process and been blessed by the engineering steering committee 15:52:56 /win 61 15:56:23 mchua: could you please send us a link to the video you showed us the first day? It involved twitter 15:57:15 mchua: are we still going to have the release notes spin at some point? it would be great to set a time for that 15:57:48 mchua: i meant sprint not spin 15:59:28 * rbergeron waves 16:01:10 DEiben - you mean the one-page release notes? 16:02:22 DEiben: I'd love to sprint on the one-pagers. I know rbergeron would too. 16:02:33 rbergeron, hold the chisel work plz 16:02:50 DEiben: We've got the schedule responses from people on http://whenisgood.net/adan9w/results/ghwnx9, so pick a time and let myself, rbergeron, and the marketing list know when you want to go. 16:03:06 krassen: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_social_networks#Past_discussions 16:03:09 ok tyler is about to pick a time 16:03:16 DEiben: Excellent. 16:03:33 I'll be there, unless it's during Friday lunchtime when I'll be playing airport chaffeur. 16:06:10 mchua: thank you! 16:07:37 Release note sprint tonight at 6:00 EST, if anyone can physically be at the Allegheny library we will be there, the marketing list is currently being notified 16:09:31 DEiben: Awesome. It's on my calendar - meet in this channel? 16:09:40 DEiben: If you've got a minute, I'll show you the tools we'll be using for the sprint. 16:10:14 nmarques: noted 16:10:15 sure i hvae 5 minutes, but we might wanna mett in a seperate channel 16:10:41 i'll be a bit late - that's the magic time when I have to pick my daughter up from the bus stop :) 16:11:40 DEiben: No need, just go to http://typewith.me/python-feature-profile 16:11:46 ok 16:13:53 DEiben: That link, http://typewith.me/python-feature-profile, is an example of the collaborative text editor we'll be using 16:13:58 ...dang 16:14:49 mchua: i saw it. i'll let him know 17:03:41 be back lagter on 17:03:55 * inode0 notes #OPRN-sprint is rather unfortunate for those with transpositional tendencies 17:55:40 ughhhhhhh 17:59:54 Ooo, it's about meeting time here 18:00:03 indeedly doodly. 18:00:59 stickster: here I come 18:01:11 stickster: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. 18:01:17 oh no 18:01:19 #endmeeting 18:01:30 #endmeeting 18:01:39 #endmeeting 18:01:47 rbergeron, mchua_afk ^^ 18:01:52 #endmeeting 18:02:05 mchua started it 18:02:11 mjadudm, mchua 18:02:20 #endmeeting