18:03:06 <stickster> #startmeeting Fedora Insight weekly meeting (f'real)
18:03:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 13 18:03:06 2010 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:03:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:03:07 <th0br0> huh k.
18:03:11 <smooge> ah man.. I was rocking out to Queen
18:03:14 <stickster> #meetingname Fedora Insight
18:03:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_insight'
18:03:20 <ricky> Yeah, pingall is weird for us lurkers.
18:03:20 <stickster> smooge: "Let me entertain you"
18:03:28 <ricky> Yay Queen :-)
18:03:29 * rbergeron grins
18:03:34 <kanarip> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
18:03:49 <kanarip> zodbot, stfu already
18:03:54 <rbergeron> but i miss you guyz :)
18:04:24 <anthro-diana> :)
18:04:30 <stickster> #chair rbergeron smooge
18:04:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: rbergeron smooge stickster
18:04:37 <stickster> #topic Roll call
18:04:43 * stickster 
18:04:50 * rbergeron is around, a square, a triangle.
18:04:54 <smooge> Ok so lets get stone cold crazy. whats the agenda
18:05:17 * stickster makes a quick edit there
18:05:27 <rbergeron> gwerra, you around? :)
18:06:51 <stickster> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Meeting_agenda
18:07:55 * rbergeron looks around for drak or mateo
18:07:57 <stickster> *sigh
18:08:02 <stickster> #topic Go-forward plan
18:08:16 * etali has been worken up by pingall - hi everyone
18:09:26 <stickster> OK, so yesterday we had a bit of a fumble with a day-early meeting :-0
18:09:35 <stickster> That was my fault, see list for abject apologies :-)
18:10:02 <stickster> rbergeron: Were you able to send mail directly to drak/mateo for today's meeting?
18:10:04 <rbergeron> it's all good.
18:10:08 <rbergeron> yes.
18:10:13 <stickster> Any response?
18:10:17 <rbergeron> nada.
18:10:30 * rbergeron is going to shoot another one right now, in case they're awake or something
18:11:30 <stickster> OK, that's of some concern to me.
18:11:40 <rbergeron> okay, they're pinged again
18:12:16 <stickster> #info This scheduled meeting was something that our Zikula friends agreed they could make, so we could make concrete plans to develop toward our June 15 milestone.
18:12:39 <stickster> Things come up, and stuff happens. Life gets in the way sometimes!
18:13:31 <stickster> rbergeron: smooge: gwerra: If mateo gets back to us at some point in the next few days, let's see if we can progress right to doing stuff.
18:13:41 <rbergeron> and it's definitely 1800UTC. Which is what the mail said.
18:13:44 <smooge> ok
18:13:49 * rbergeron double-checks for sanity.. mostly her own... :)
18:14:08 <smooge> what time is there timezone
18:14:29 <stickster> smooge: I think they're both in London timezone, but I could be wrong
18:14:39 <stickster> +6 hours from US-Eastern
18:14:51 <smooge> ah ok.
18:14:56 <rbergeron> drak is in the UK, i believe; mateo just moved to colombia, i believe
18:15:01 <smooge> UTC+1 right now
18:15:02 <rbergeron> oh, drak is currently in nepal.
18:15:20 <rbergeron> at least he was in an email - but i got the impression that was a permanent-ish time slot.
18:15:22 <smooge> UTC-14 I think
18:15:30 <rbergeron> but - mail was sent yesterday, so
18:16:26 <rbergeron> let's do this: let's see if we hear back from either drak or mateo in the next few days... say by monday?
18:16:58 <stickster> OK.
18:17:03 <rbergeron> and see if we can reschedule if we need to - or at least see if we can get a status update by email of where our issues are currently at, so we can move forward a little more efficiently
18:17:07 <stickster> In the meantime, is it helpful for us to make sure our tickets are in order?
18:17:27 <rbergeron> because right now, i don't even know where we are - and i hate to wait another week to have a "where are we, so we can move forward" discussion.
18:17:34 <rbergeron> i'd like to actually be forward by next week. :)
18:17:51 <rbergeron> yes - let's see what we can figure out about our tickets currently
18:17:55 <smooge> if getting a report via email works best for them.. lets go with that too
18:17:56 <stickster> OK.
18:18:08 <stickster> Our minutes can help in that regard.
18:18:09 <rbergeron> the one thing i'm seeing in most tickets - is that we have some issues about the live versions being out of sync with the repo
18:18:18 <stickster> Let's try to #info things properly and it will give them a checklist.
18:18:40 <rbergeron> so - that seems to be a pervasive issue rather than just a ticket, i don't know what's up with that, or how we should fix it.
18:18:48 <rbergeron> but let's go through the tickets i suppose :)
18:19:06 <stickster> gwerra: Are you in a position to figure out *where* we're out of sync with the fedora hosted projects for our zikula theme and FAS module?
18:19:08 <rbergeron> gwerra was just around a bit ago, i don't know what happened to him - he was actually going to work on stuff since he has the day off :)
18:19:45 <stickster> smooge: Maybe this is something you could help with, as more of a bit-level minor deity than the rest of us :-)
18:20:20 <rbergeron> i think most of the discrepancies are noted in the tickets, iirc.
18:20:57 <smooge> ok what repo and what live version so I am 1:1 with what you are talking about
18:21:09 <smooge> goes to read tickets
18:21:11 <rbergeron> ke4qqq, are you about
18:21:14 <smooge> after meeting
18:21:48 <stickster> Let's look at the tickets now to get a bead on that, smooge
18:21:52 <stickster> Shall we move on to ticket review?
18:22:14 * rbergeron notes that this got said earlier while gwerra and i were chatting about what there is to do -
18:22:17 <rbergeron> 09:56 < ke4qqq> gwerra: version in infra's repos have multiple XSS and CSRF vulns. fesco  granted an exception and 1.2.3 is in u-testing
18:22:44 <rbergeron> note: i have no clue what that means... and it could randomly be related to something else altogether, although in context it seemed to be referring to zikula.
18:23:18 <rbergeron> yes, let's look at tickets
18:23:32 <stickster> rbergeron: What he's talking about is Zikula.
18:23:40 <rbergeron> i thought so. :)
18:23:54 <rbergeron> i know what he's saying - i just didn't know really the implications, i suppose.
18:24:05 <rbergeron> if that affects anything we have going on.
18:24:11 <stickster> The Zikula 1.2.2 that I believe we're running has vulnerabilities. Despite the fact that 1.2.3 has bundled library problems, FESCo is OK with using it temporarily while we await the 1.3 release, since upstream is committed to fixing the bundled libs.
18:24:23 * stickster remembers #info
18:24:26 <stickster> #info The Zikula 1.2.2 that I believe we're running has vulnerabilities. Despite the fact that 1.2.3 has bundled library problems, FESCo is OK with using it temporarily while we await the 1.3 release, since upstream is committed to fixing the bundled libs.
18:24:51 * stickster moves on to ticket review
18:25:05 <stickster> #topic Ticket review
18:25:13 <stickster> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2100
18:26:01 <stickster> #info This ticket is not critical path. It's addressible later.
18:26:14 <stickster> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2104
18:26:42 <stickster> #info warning message at successful login
18:27:03 <smooge> ok so we need a rebuilt zikula RPM?
18:27:03 * stickster tests -- looks fixed to me. rbergeron, can you confirm?
18:27:13 * rbergeron wishes that all the trac instances were co-located so that we could look at the Fedora Insight milestone across all the trac instances
18:27:19 <rbergeron> that's fixed.
18:27:26 <rbergeron> i noticed the other day.
18:27:27 <stickster> rbergeron: I think we should just keep all the tickets in one place
18:27:31 <stickster> We can cc people as needed
18:27:35 * rbergeron nods
18:27:42 <stickster> But let's stay on track for the meeting and come back to that
18:27:44 * rbergeron was just saying, you know, in a nice universe :)
18:27:59 <stickster> smooge: I think ke4qqq has already built us a Zikula 1.2.3
18:28:29 <stickster> smooge: Can I #action you to check into that?
18:28:36 <smooge> ok will check
18:28:42 <stickster> #action smooge Find out if ke4qqq has built a Zikula 1.2.3 package already
18:29:03 <stickster> If so, we should be able to swap it in with no ill effects.
18:29:14 <stickster> OK, back to tickets!
18:29:25 <rbergeron> should we close 2104?
18:29:40 <stickster> #action rbergeron Close 2104 as fixed
18:29:42 <stickster> yes :-)
18:30:13 <rbergeron> done :)
18:30:17 <stickster> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2105
18:31:42 <stickster> This does not appear to be fixed, and smooge, rbergeron, this is an example of the difference between what's deployed and what's in the module in Fedora Hosted
18:32:02 <rbergeron> it was fixed on the live site, rather than via patch.
18:32:11 <smooge> Ah it looks like the trac also needs setup https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-zikula/
18:32:22 <stickster> rbergeron: Right, via patch + new release of the module + installing that module package on the Zikula box
18:32:56 <stickster> smooge: Yes. I think it hasn't been paid much attention other than as a way to browse the code.
18:33:06 <stickster> There's another project for the theme here:
18:33:15 <stickster> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-zikula-theme/
18:33:18 <stickster> Same problem.
18:33:22 <rbergeron> yes - all the trac tickets are being hosted by the individual team trac instances.
18:33:33 <rbergeron> so marketing has a trac, design has a trac both with FI tickets.
18:33:45 <smooge> Ok not sure what to do about that
18:33:58 <stickster> smooge: Yeah, not your problem that the Trac is not setup.
18:34:31 <stickster> What we need gwerra, drak, mateo to address is getting the deployed code reconciled with the modules in FHosted, and doing proper releases as we go.
18:34:42 <stickster> smooge: Would you agree with that from an Infra perspective?
18:35:21 <smooge> correct
18:35:28 <smooge> its a good thing this isnt GPLv3
18:35:37 <stickster> #info 2105 is not fixed. The module code appears to be out of sync with what's deployed on publictest6. We need this to be reconciled and proper releases done as we go, so we're not wondering what code is found where.
18:36:03 <stickster> smooge: rbergeron: I have to say, this is something I'm concerned about from an Insight project perspective. It's not a sustainable approach to collaborating.
18:36:05 <smooge> because we would be in trouble. Actually one nice thing about AGPL and such is that it makes sure your production steps are good
18:36:13 <stickster> smooge: *nod
18:36:40 <smooge> stickster, are you talking about content or code
18:36:48 <stickster> smooge: The code only
18:37:16 <stickster> I understand that publictest6 is a good place to tinker, but then you have to get a diff, bring it back to the module and do the work of release
18:37:46 <stickster> That way, when rbergeron, or you, or I, or anyone, visits the code browser, we know exactly what's been fixed for our tickets.
18:38:00 <stickster> Right now we have fixes that could simply evaporate if something happens to that particular publictest machine.
18:38:04 <smooge> basically I would say we would need to run 2 different versions on PT6
18:38:38 <smooge> PT6 port 8080 say runs your development and your 80 runs your this was checked out every hour from git
18:39:30 <stickster> smooge: To make things a bit more complicated... there's a stg.fp.o instance, but I can't tell whether it incorporates patches on pt6 or not.
18:41:04 <smooge> ah ok
18:41:17 <rbergeron> so - it seems to me like this issue of nothing being synced up is really blocking our ability to do things - we seem to spend a lot of time just trying to sort out what's been done - so we should really try to prioritize (a) fixing all the conflicts and (b) making sure we all are on the same page as far as process goes
18:41:32 <stickster> Yes.
18:41:40 <rbergeron> otherwise we just seem to have this "i don't know, do you know, and btw we're all in different time zones so it takes a day+ to find out" issue
18:41:42 <smooge> ok so pt6 is your development branch. Stuff from there should be checked into an equivalent branch regularly on hosted.
18:41:53 <rbergeron> every single time we have a meeting
18:41:56 <rbergeron> which takes up a lot of time.
18:42:06 <stickster> And that's what needs to appear on the [[Insight]] page on the wiki. We have a ton of content on that page and not all of it is useful at this poitn.l
18:42:07 <stickster> *point.
18:42:08 <mateo__> Hi all!
18:42:12 <stickster> mateo__: !!!!
18:42:13 <stickster> Yay
18:42:28 <smooge> stuff from there gets pushed int the qa version which may go somewhere else. If you go with Dev -> QA -> Staging -> Production the staging version is the one you want to only use stuff from hosted
18:42:33 <mateo__> I'm in a middle of a travel, but arrived finally! :D
18:42:34 <stickster> mateo__: OK, you've come into the storm, have your raincoat rady :-)
18:42:36 <stickster> *ready
18:43:01 <mateo__> ya, raincoat suited! ;)
18:43:06 <stickster> mateo__: We are trying to make sure that our process of development is not happening in a crazy fashion
18:43:37 <stickster> mateo__: Right now, there are changes on the publictest6 machine that aren't checked into the source repositories for the FAS module
18:43:44 <stickster> I have no idea if that's the case for the theme
18:43:49 <stickster> But I'm worried it is :-(
18:44:18 <mateo__> yes, my last changes are not in the repo, I did them before have commit access
18:44:34 <stickster> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=fedora-zikula-theme.git;a=summary <-- :-(
18:44:52 <stickster> mateo__: Do you have commit access now, or do you still need it?
18:45:14 <mateo__> I have it now
18:45:24 <stickster> OK
18:45:27 <mateo__> I just arrived from Brasil, and that's why I haven't synced that
18:45:47 <stickster> I think rbergeron and smooge have been saying something very important things and I want to give them the chance to reiterate a plan
18:46:11 <stickster> We need to embrace the release-early, release-often open source way as we're making these changes
18:46:22 <stickster> mateo__: It's great you have commit access now because you can help us do that properly
18:46:44 <stickster> smooge: Can you set out again the steps you described above?
18:46:52 <smooge> actually I would go for the commit often, release often  approach
18:47:00 <stickster> smooge: Heh :-) There you go
18:47:05 <rbergeron> yes - i'm not much of a expert in this area... so I'm going to just agree with smooge. :)
18:47:17 <mateo__> :P
18:47:25 <smooge> Ok we want one server where people can do development work on either one or multiple copies of the code
18:47:27 * stickster doesn't do a lot of Infrastructure work but smooge does. He can describe the process they use as they build stuff for other sites
18:48:23 * mateo__ wants to know the proper way to do it then
18:48:35 <smooge> We then want that code to be checked in regularly. From there code will be checked out into a QA environment that has reached a certain stage. The code there is basically an RPM and changes are managed through a known process. Bugs fixed there have to go back into devel
18:49:06 <smooge> From that QA tree we put stuff on stagining that is ready for production. Its there we do go/no-go on changes and site. And when we are go it goes into production
18:50:08 <stickster> That makes sense to me
18:50:12 <smooge> This is one of several methods for 'infrastructure'. It is also more maleable than I have outlined.. as in if something doesn't work.. we make it work
18:50:43 <stickster> smooge: So for things like the module, you'd have a checkout of the module in your home directory, and copy things in and out as you work toward a commit?
18:51:01 <smooge> The issue will be making it so mateo, etal can get work done and rbergerson can get her part done in a different part
18:51:58 <smooge> I would say if its git based then we would make a couple of branches so that mateo could work and not have things break for him when mizmo adds the Panda module
18:52:47 <smooge> when stuff goes into qa its basically a cherry pick  from trees
18:52:51 <stickster> mateo__: How much of this works for you? All of it? None of it?
18:53:24 <mateo__> all of it, you point the path, I can live with it :)
18:53:35 <mateo__> git branch sounds ok
18:54:43 <stickster> mateo__: So we have the git repos already -- they're the fedorahosted.org repos for fedora-zikula (FASauth module, etc.) and fedora-zikula-theme (the CSS/theme stuff)
18:54:55 <stickster> I think the one that mateo__ cares about is the fedora-zikula repo
18:55:00 <mateo__> yep, and I have commit access
18:55:02 <stickster> And with commit access, he can start work there
18:55:05 <mizmo> pandas
18:55:08 <stickster> heh
18:55:18 <mateo__> I do care about zikula-theme too
18:55:24 <stickster> Oh good!
18:55:29 <stickster> The more the merrier :-)
18:55:35 <mateo__> I like CSS and I'm perfeccionist :)
18:56:06 <stickster> mateo__: The thing we need to do first is to get all the diffs between what's in /usr/share/zikula/modules/FASAuth (for example) and what's in the git fedora-zikula repo accounted for and committed as a series
18:56:15 <stickster> So they make sense when we look through them later
18:56:30 <stickster> And any other config stuff, of course, that belongs in that repo too
18:56:32 <mateo__> agree
18:56:39 <stickster> mateo__: Can you start with that?
18:56:53 <mateo__> I will back to home on sunday, and will do that, it's ok?
18:56:57 <stickster> Yes, that's great
18:57:08 <mateo__> ok :D
18:57:09 <stickster> mateo__: And please freely use the logistics@ list to talk to us about what you're up to
18:57:34 <mateo__> ack
18:57:47 <stickster> smooge: Do you feel able to look into any parallel installed Zikula instances we might need to make this happen?
18:58:15 <stickster> #action mateo will get all the diffs between what's in /usr/share/zikula/modules/FASAuth (for example) and what's in the git fedora-zikula repo accounted for and committed as a series
18:58:40 <stickster> #info we'll all use the logistics@ list to communicate more effectively. IRC is too easy to lose and forget.
18:58:43 <smooge> one sec
18:58:54 <mateo__> (y)
18:59:10 * stickster notes we have publictest6.fp.o/zikula already, along with stg.fp.o/insight
18:59:41 <stickster> #action stickster clean up [[Insight]] page to make it shorter and more full of useful contetn.
18:59:43 <stickster> *content.
19:00:19 <smooge> I will look into parallel install versions to see what needs to be done
19:00:22 <stickster> oh, whoops
19:00:26 <stickster> #undo
19:00:26 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2279c6d0>
19:00:31 <stickster> #action stickster clean up [[Insight]] page to make it shorter and more full of useful content
19:01:06 <stickster> #action smooge look into parallel Zikula instances if we need any additional ones to effectively develop, test, deploy beyond the two we have now on pt6 and stg
19:01:11 <rbergeron> i'll go ahead and test things once we get everything in one place and patches and what not - wherever we are ready to move forward from
19:01:17 <rbergeron> off the testing list.
19:01:38 <rbergeron> as well as add any new testing things i think of offhand.
19:01:46 * rbergeron is determined to help here :)
19:01:59 <stickster> #action rbergeron will continue to serve as test monkey :-)
19:02:04 * mateo__ thinks that's excellent
19:02:10 <stickster> I'll help too :-)
19:02:20 <stickster> OK, that's probably good enough for today.
19:02:36 <stickster> Let's plan to see where we are on Tuesday, *before* we get to our Thursday meeting
19:02:42 <stickster> (which I won't screw up next week) :-)
19:02:45 <stickster> Sound good?
19:02:53 <rbergeron> Tuesday - during mktg meeting?
19:03:01 <rbergeron> or just via email
19:03:06 <stickster> Email is fine
19:03:07 <rbergeron> or ticket browsing ;)
19:03:09 <rbergeron> okay.
19:03:33 <mateo__> I hope to have the tickets synced on Monday then ;)
19:03:42 <stickster> mateo__: Awesome
19:03:45 <gwerra> meeting still on?
19:03:46 <rbergeron> yay!
19:03:52 <stickster> gwerra: We're just finishing
19:04:17 <stickster> #info We'll email on logistics@ list to see where we are on Tuesday, *before* we get to our Thursday meeting
19:04:21 <gwerra> stickster: damn, We had a communication failure, rain, and storm
19:04:22 <stickster> #undo
19:04:22 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x230fb390>
19:04:26 <stickster> #agreed We'll email on logistics@ list to see where we are on Tuesday, *before* we get to our Thursday meeting
19:04:55 <stickster> OK, I think that's it for today, although I'll still be here for a while yet :-)
19:05:12 <mateo__> I'll take the lunch in some minutes :)
19:05:16 <stickster> #endmeeting