19:01:54 <sijis> #startmeeting
19:01:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug  4 19:01:54 2010 UTC.  The chair is sijis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:06 <sijis> #topic who is here?
19:02:25 <shaiton> kevin raymond (as observer :) )
19:02:32 <sijis> hehe.
19:02:38 * mizmo Máirín duffy
19:03:24 <sijis> so, i will speculate low turnout .. :(
19:03:47 <mizmo> Schendje, around?
19:03:56 <Schendje> yep i'm here :)
19:04:07 <Schendje> oh right
19:04:07 <Schendje> the meeting :D
19:04:11 * Schendje here! :D
19:04:28 <sijis> nb: ping - meeing
19:04:44 <tajidinabd> im here also
19:04:46 <sijis> i'll just jump right in
19:04:55 <sijis> #topic web-tasks - f14 alpha
19:04:57 <sijis> #Link [1] - http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-14/f-14-web-tasks.html
19:05:01 <sijis> [2] - http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/fedoraproject-org-front-page-redesign-mockup-1/
19:05:04 <sijis> blah
19:05:10 <sijis> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-14/f-14-web-tasks.html
19:05:21 <mizmo> i'm having trouble finding volunteers to write content for the new website :(
19:05:38 <mizmo> Schendje completed the content review
19:05:46 <sijis> so we are somewhere btween task #5 - #9
19:06:02 <mizmo> its here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Schendje/FPOcontent/
19:06:16 <Schendje> is the content review okay like this? i kind of left it alone after i started :/
19:06:21 <sijis> mizmo: yeah.. so that ian (archoille).. he's vanished, i think
19:06:23 <Schendje> then again, i don't know what to add either...
19:06:34 <mizmo> yah unfortunately they are grouped by start date not due date
19:06:39 <mizmo> Schendje, i think that's fine
19:06:53 <mizmo> i read through it and found it very sueful
19:06:55 <mizmo> er useful
19:07:13 <Schendje> oh ok i'm glad :)
19:07:31 <sijis> so what's the deal? we need someone to help with that content writing/ideas, right?
19:07:49 <mizmo> i think we're about a week behind on the mockups
19:07:51 <mizmo> maybe more
19:08:00 <mizmo> because the mockups so far are just general layout, not page-by-page specifics :(
19:08:04 <mizmo> yeh,
19:08:08 <mizmo> we need both topics for each section
19:08:11 <mizmo> and then writers to write them
19:08:13 <sijis> well. mockup #3 is due EOW.
19:08:26 <Schendje> i'd like to help with mockups, but the layout hasn't been decided upon yet, right?
19:08:33 <mizmo> yeh
19:08:36 <mizmo> well
19:08:39 <mizmo> there's two sections - support and join
19:08:43 <mizmo> that we haven't even lookd at
19:09:02 <mizmo> :(
19:09:13 <Schendje> oh dear really?
19:09:17 <Schendje> i didn't know those were included
19:09:21 <mizmo> yep
19:09:28 <mizmo> :-/
19:09:33 <mizmo> right now they are each one single page
19:09:37 <mizmo> but we could do much better
19:10:21 <sijis> can we have like 3 temaplates? so 1 - main/fp.o home pages, 2 - section template, 3 - interior/other pages?
19:10:37 <sijis> does that makes sense?
19:10:44 <mizmo> yeh it does
19:10:56 <mizmo> maybe 1 is very specific to the layout of the front page
19:11:04 <mizmo> 3 is maybe just the chrome / nav around a blank section
19:11:08 <mizmo> 2 has the section header in it
19:11:16 <sijis> yup. you got it
19:12:11 <sijis> #help
19:12:38 <sijis> #task sijis will reach out if there are any takers for content
19:13:02 <onekopaka_ipod> I thought it was #action
19:13:07 <sijis> darn!
19:13:12 * sijis has been a while
19:13:19 <sijis> #action sijis will reach out if there are any takers for content
19:13:32 <onekopaka_ipod> Great
19:13:34 <shaiton> sijis, better would be an undo before :p
19:13:48 <sijis> hehe. no biggie.
19:13:55 <onekopaka_ipod> Undo is broken
19:14:08 <sijis> mizmo: so Schendje is gonna help you with the other mockups?
19:14:11 <onekopaka_ipod> Display wise.
19:14:12 <shaiton> oh ok ;)
19:14:36 <mizmo> what do you think Schendje? can you take either help or join and i'll take the other?
19:14:53 <Schendje> mizmo: sure that sounds good to me!
19:15:01 <mizmo> cool
19:15:11 <mizmo> ill take help
19:15:58 <Schendje> okidoki
19:16:41 <sijis> great
19:17:04 <sijis> mizmo: you need any other help?
19:17:47 <mizmo> well
19:18:05 <mizmo> besides content writing & filling out the mockups, i can't think of anything else
19:18:56 <sijis> ok, i'll try to find some folks for the content writing.
19:19:06 <sijis> you think docs is a group to approach on this?
19:19:08 <tajidinabd> i can help out with content writing
19:19:14 <mizmo> i think so
19:19:21 <mizmo> that would be great tajidinabd
19:19:33 <tajidinabd> im new to the group so
19:19:36 <tajidinabd> be gently
19:19:41 <tajidinabd> lol
19:20:18 * sijis is trying to find the original thread...
19:20:30 <sijis> tajidinabd: we will :)
19:21:17 <tajidinabd> but the content part is fine for me
19:21:19 <tajidinabd> to start
19:21:46 <mizmo> tajidinabd, so we have 3 sections
19:22:05 <mizmo> interviews with fedora users, reasons fedora is different from other OS'es and linuxes, and tutorials for doing fun stuff with fedora
19:22:14 <mizmo> do any of those seem like topics of interest for you to write, tajidinabd?
19:22:26 <tajidinabd> i can take the tutorials
19:22:33 <mizmo> cool
19:22:55 <mizmo> this is the list of tutorial ideas tajidinabd
19:22:56 <mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign#Do_It_With_Fedora
19:23:50 <tajidinabd> alright i got an idea
19:23:54 <tajidinabd> for these already
19:24:41 <sijis> mizmo: thaks.. i couldn't find the thread that had the links...
19:24:50 <sijis> and the info
19:26:16 <mizmo> i made this wikipage be the central place https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign
19:26:26 <mizmo> and any redundant pages i removed and incorporated there
19:26:58 * sijis bookmarked it
19:28:00 <sijis> #info tajidinabd will help with content on fp.o redesign
19:28:17 <sijis> #info Schendje will work with mizmo on fp.o mockups.
19:28:33 <sijis> #info mizmo will take on help
19:28:59 <sijis> #info Schendje will take on join (and others)
19:29:40 <sijis> ok, looking furhter on the tasks list, we need to put an alpha banner up in about a week
19:29:58 <mizmo> yeh
19:30:01 <sijis> mizmo: design is responsible for that banner, right?
19:30:07 <mizmo> alexander smirnov (inkscaper) is currently taking that design task on
19:30:10 <mizmo> sijis, yep! :)
19:30:30 <sijis> oh, awesome.
19:30:38 <sijis> did he do that countown for the release last time?
19:30:40 <Schendje> was he also the one that did the previous banner?
19:30:44 <Schendje> yeah, that ;)
19:31:17 <mizmo> yeh he did :)
19:31:25 <mizmo> he's good
19:31:31 <sijis> yup.
19:31:46 <sijis> you guys put those banners on a wiki page somewhere, no?
19:32:40 <sijis> is this page? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork
19:32:46 <mizmo> yep
19:33:10 <sijis> ok, i'll be on the lookout for changes/updates to that.
19:33:30 <sijis> anything else for the tasks list?
19:33:54 <onekopaka_laptop> not that I know of
19:34:16 <sijis> #topic fp.o mockups review
19:34:39 <sijis> i think some of this may have been covered in the design meeting yesterday (but i wasn't around)
19:34:59 <mizmo> actually i dont think we got to it
19:35:00 <sijis> either way..there's been awesome feedback by Schendje on the mockups by mizmo
19:35:07 <mizmo> yep there is a great thread going
19:35:23 <sijis> #link http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/fedoraproject-org-front-page-redesign-mockup-1/
19:35:42 <Schendje> i'd like to talk more about the layout, so we can finish that and fill in the details
19:35:44 <sijis> ^ that's the mockup blog
19:35:47 <sijis> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2010-July/008362.html
19:35:54 <sijis> ^start of thread
19:35:57 <sijis> Schendje: yeah, go for it
19:36:16 <Schendje> well doesn't have to be right now :D
19:36:36 <Schendje> i've got to go in a few minutes :(
19:38:41 <sijis> oh :)
19:39:08 <sijis> i honestly generally like the flow of the mockups
19:39:23 <sijis> i can't remember if its agreed to just have that 1 menu or not
19:39:40 <mizmo> i think spot made a comment he liked having two
19:39:50 <mizmo> but i think maybe it's because folks have habituated to the current nav
19:40:06 <mizmo> what i think we could do is make some plain get | join | help links (rather than a full-blown bar) in the upper right
19:40:35 <onekopaka_laptop> I like the fancy bar
19:40:41 <mizmo> onekopaka_laptop, which one?
19:40:56 <onekopaka_laptop> the upper right one
19:40:58 <mizmo> (maybe give a link to the mockup you're looking at?)
19:41:08 <mizmo> there's at least 10 versions of the header mockups :)
19:41:14 <tajidinabd> the rounded edges is a good touch to keep
19:41:17 <onekopaka_laptop> the first on your blog post
19:41:20 <mizmo> you mean the grey beveled thing?
19:41:21 <mizmo> see
19:41:22 <tajidinabd> thats very good
19:41:26 <onekopaka_laptop> yeah
19:41:26 <mizmo> we removed that because it's pretty problematic
19:41:33 <onekopaka_laptop> how so?
19:42:05 <mizmo> i wrote it up here, onekopaka_laptop http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/some-www-fpo-header-mockups/
19:42:05 <onekopaka_laptop> is it because certain browsers *cough*IE*cough* make it difficult?
19:42:16 <mizmo> The problem we were trying to solve here was having two competing navigation bars, and placing the navbar in such a manner that I felt it wouldn’t necessitate an awkward non-front page layout. In #6 and #7 you can see the two navbars have been collapsed into one, and it’s above the main banner / slideshow area. Sijis suggested moving it above the banner and I think it works really well. The problem with it on the bottom is that if you have a subpa
19:42:16 <mizmo> ge that doesn’t have a banner, it makes the nav bar move up and down the page making it much more complicated to move between pages via that navbar (when the navbar itself jumps around the page you have to refind your place on the page to click on a nav item.)
19:42:25 <mizmo> it looks fine,
19:42:34 <mizmo> but when i tried mockup up a section or subpage, it became a big problem
19:42:50 <onekopaka_laptop> hmm
19:43:06 <mizmo> i think it's bad for nav to move from page to page
19:43:06 <onekopaka_laptop> well where are #6 and #7
19:43:13 <onekopaka_laptop> it's very bad
19:43:26 <mizmo> what do you mean, where are #6 and #7? i don't understand the question :(
19:43:51 <onekopaka_laptop> I'm not seeing any images
19:43:59 <onekopaka_laptop> on http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/some-www-fpo-header-mockups/
19:44:11 <onekopaka_laptop> I see the numbers.
19:44:13 <mizmo> onekopaka_laptop, try shift+reload? i can see them okay
19:44:20 <mizmo> is anybody else having issues seeing #6 and #7?
19:44:33 <onekopaka_laptop> okay that worked.
19:44:47 <mizmo> cool :)
19:44:53 <mizmo> they are on the wiki too, im trying to find the exact url
19:45:04 <mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign/Mockups/Www.fpo#Header_styling
19:45:22 <sijis> i'm seeing them
19:45:24 <onekopaka_laptop> I like the navbar in #6 and #7 too
19:45:35 <mizmo> sijis and i went through a lot of sites on the web looking to see how other sites handled the problem
19:45:40 <mizmo> and most of them have a single main nav bar
19:45:53 <mizmo> particularly i looked through a lot of software websites
19:45:55 <sijis> yeah, that's sorta what i noticed too
19:45:57 <onekopaka_laptop> mmhmm
19:46:24 <sijis> so the diff between #6 and #7 is color of the nav, right?
19:46:33 <tajidinabd> take a look at ubuntu.com
19:46:51 <mizmo> here are some examples
19:46:52 <mizmo> http://gantry-framework.org/
19:46:59 <mizmo> http://onehub.com/
19:46:59 * onekopaka_laptop secretly writes .vom instead of .com
19:47:04 <mizmo> http://tapbots.com/
19:47:20 <mizmo> tajidinabd, i'm actually trying to avoid getting any inspiration from ubuntu as mr. shuttleworth is actively claiming fedora copies ubuntu design
19:47:49 <sijis> mizmo: really?! i have to read that.
19:48:02 <onekopaka_laptop> and Mr. Shuttleworth doesn't give very specific apologies.
19:48:20 * sijis did read that
19:48:23 <tajidinabd> but i do like the mockup
19:48:24 <mizmo> sijis, yep :( http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/its-not-about-tribalism-mark/#comment-456
19:49:26 <sijis> i looked at apple and they have 1 main nav.
19:49:40 <onekopaka_laptop> they do indeed have 1 main navigation bar
19:49:47 <sijis> although i was really curious to see how they show/display macos
19:50:02 <onekopaka_laptop> http://www.apple.com/macosx/
19:50:05 <mizmo> i think the simplicity of one nav bar and the discipline required in maintaining one will really help keep the website easy to use
19:50:08 <sijis> from a software point of view... and its just plain old desktop screenshots
19:50:36 <sijis> mizmo: agreed. its also a way to drive traffic to certain locations
19:50:49 <onekopaka_laptop> mizmo: yeah, if you don't keep all your content fitting with the main nav, the design falls apart
19:52:00 <mizmo> so it seems we're in agreement the one main nav is something good to strive for
19:52:06 <tajidinabd> yea
19:52:11 * Schendje agrees too
19:52:12 <sijis> yup.
19:52:16 <onekopaka_laptop> agreed.
19:52:22 <mizmo> cool
19:52:38 * onekopaka_laptop is reading Shuttleworth's reply to mizmo's comment.
19:53:12 <onekopaka_laptop> he seems like he is as much of a jerk as he was when he pulled his sexist act
19:53:53 <onekopaka_laptop> so I would definitely agree that we have to not allow him any ground to argue that we're copying his company's designs.
19:54:08 <sijis> yeah, definitely
19:54:44 <mizmo> we'll probably get accused anyway... but this redesign project is already over a year old :)
19:55:01 <mizmo> it's no big deal, just better to try to avoid conflict and just focus on rocking out
19:55:14 <sijis> i know we currently don't have a global search tool. is the idea to use the wiki search?
19:55:19 <sijis> or just leave that out for now.
19:55:57 <mizmo> i guess we have to leave it out and try to get one implemented after and added in
19:58:08 <sijis> ok.
19:58:31 <sijis> any other  concners/questions about the mockups?
19:58:36 <onekopaka_laptop> nope
19:58:59 <sijis> or something that needs an answer soon, they can move forward with? sidebar, footer, etc?
19:59:13 <sijis> color :)
19:59:15 <tajidinabd> nothing
19:59:19 <Schendje> not for me
19:59:28 <onekopaka_laptop> Fedora Blue is always a good color
19:59:38 <sijis> i think the footer is pretty much set.
19:59:41 <tajidinabd> i second that
19:59:47 <mizmo> yeh
19:59:52 <mizmo> the footer is pretty strong
20:00:05 * sijis loves it
20:00:06 <onekopaka_laptop> yeah
20:00:19 <onekopaka_laptop> it's already on spins.fp.o, right?
20:00:23 <onekopaka_laptop> that design
20:00:25 * sijis hits the 1hr mark
20:00:39 <sijis> onekopaka_laptop: the footer is.
20:01:01 <onekopaka_laptop> and a footer is also a nice thing to unify on
20:01:25 <sijis> i think the other sites will need to be tweaked to include some commonality.. eg footer,header?, etc
20:01:35 <onekopaka_laptop> yeah
20:01:49 <sijis> anything else.. since we are over the timelimit
20:02:10 <onekopaka_laptop> blogs.fp.o has documentation ;-)
20:02:10 <sijis> #agreed 1 navigation for fp.o
20:02:26 <sijis> onekopaka_laptop: yeah? awesome.
20:02:39 <tajidinabd> +1
20:02:47 <onekopaka_laptop> http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/creating-your-own-blog/
20:03:05 <sijis> i have to reach out to you about somehow fixing this error on login with Control Panel
20:03:53 <sijis> onekopaka_laptop: you should like that to the blogs main entry.
20:04:12 <onekopaka_laptop> it's on the sidebar, but I'll make it more prominent
20:04:37 <onekopaka_laptop> so the error on login
20:04:50 <onekopaka_laptop> is insanity with our environment
20:05:19 <sijis> i was thinking working around it.. by only showing the Control Panel link after a user is logged in
20:05:25 <Schendje> ok i've gotta go :)
20:05:26 <Schendje> see you all!
20:05:30 <sijis> Schendje: thanks.. later
20:05:37 <onekopaka_laptop> it should only show the control panel link after they're logged in
20:05:44 <shaiton> interesting :) thx !
20:06:23 <sijis> alright
20:06:28 <sijis> #endmeeting