13:00:07 #startmeeting FZUG 13:00:07 Meeting started Fri Feb 24 13:00:07 2017 UTC. The chair is zsun. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:00:07 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 13:00:07 The meeting name has been set to 'fzug' 13:00:08 [2010-08-20 22:18:24] Posted by z/odbot@fedora-zh already: MeetBot - Debian Wiki 13:00:16 #topic Roll Call 13:00:35 #chair bexelbie gbraad tonghuix 13:00:35 Current chairs: bexelbie gbraad tonghuix zsun 13:01:02 anyone online? 13:01:06 yes 13:02:26 .hello bex 13:02:27 bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' 13:02:32 .hellomynameis zsun 13:02:32 hola 13:02:32 zsun: zsun 'None' 13:02:33 .hello gbraad 13:02:35 gbraad: gbraad 'Gerard Braad (吉拉德)' 13:02:40 okay let's com to topics 13:03:00 #topic LinuxCon China 13:03:18 * gbraad will be straightforward 13:03:22 gbraad: please 13:03:39 we had a good confcall, 13:03:40 for me, I'd like to say no useful updates 13:03:51 gbraad: agreed 13:03:53 but also zsun mentions, no progress 13:04:46 we have reached an agreement on the idea we laid out during last meeting 13:05:18 however, i believe we have few people on the ground to make a real impact 13:06:15 so far, it has been 4 people in total that agreed. of which 2 are here 13:06:33 but no progress... 13:06:36 so what does that mean in action? Are we making too big of a try and should we focus on a smaller build up or what? 13:07:03 bexelbie: to be honest, I do not dare to answer 13:07:05 * zsun on a call, may not reply fast 13:07:22 bexelbie: during our confcall I also suggested the small events as psrt of an action plan 13:07:58 bexelbie: but your suggestions might be that linuxcon is too much? I almost agree 13:07:59 was the con call all 4 people? What was the reaction? 13:08:06 bexelbie: this is why I bring it up 13:08:19 interested and willing to put effort into it. 13:08:51 however, I believe too little to make real progress, as one is not on the ground in Beijing. 13:10:41 ok 13:10:56 perhaps we could scale back how we look at LinuxCon and make it like a small event 13:10:59 gbraad bexelbie how about come to the talks directly, and just set a booth 13:11:30 zsun, can you elaborate on that? Do you mena have a booth and send people ot attend talks? or do you mean give talks and have a booth? 13:11:34 bexelbie: I, and zsun I guess, are willing to attend, help, promote and propose talks. 13:12:11 I am very +1 on seeing Fedora related talks proposed for the CFP for LinuxCon China 13:13:00 bexelbie: I will, and will convince my mentees at RH to use fedora, for demos 13:13:14 but I wonder in what way we will succeed. 13:13:36 bexelbie: I am scared to disappoint any co-operation with CentOS 13:14:11 bexelbie: as in last meeting we should come with an idea how to co-operate / how we can benefit. 13:14:14 I am not worried about disappointing CentOS mainly because they aren't sure what they can do either :) 13:14:18 if we both approach the opportunity with honesty about our possible involvement we can make it work 13:14:58 gbraad bexelbie I am willing to help. But if it takes too much dayjob, I need some of you to notify my manager (like to get approval ) first 13:14:59 I look to you all to help define an answer (answers?) to the question of how should CentOS and Fedora relate in China - what is good for that community? 13:14:59 that is a very hard question, this I know 13:15:06 bexelbie: in that regard, maybe it is better to just see it in a broader perspective and just start an open discussion? 13:15:33 bexelbie: centos has no community in China 13:16:01 bexelbie: it is mostly a given to use in hosting, etc... but there is no usergroup around it 13:16:46 ok 13:17:09 Am I correct in understanding that Fedora has only a small userbase in China? 13:17:21 bexelbie: declining for some time 13:17:31 and small as of currently 13:17:32 do we know why? 13:17:47 bexelbie: yes, I would know 13:18:08 little real promotion... 13:18:23 but worst, ... many people moved out 13:18:31 and this is normal in any projetc 13:18:43 but worse in China (asia?) 13:19:03 strong focus on family / work separation 13:19:31 people will contribute / involve as long as work can allow 13:19:33 but seldom involve in off-time 13:19:36 Do you mean that participating in Fedora was like working and so they moved out to minimize their work outside of their $dayjob? 13:19:39 ahh 13:20:15 just hang off the call. sorry for this 13:20:15 also, the communities in Beijing for instance, overlap a lot... you see many of the same people in suse, fedora, etc. 13:20:30 they are not really involved 13:20:37 zsun, no worries on the call .. happens to all of us 13:20:50 w 13:20:52 gbraad, so they are more like "light users who show up at meetings and listen"? 13:21:00 bexelbie: yeps 13:21:03 yep 13:22:15 some even are no longer using Fedora IMO 13:22:28 ok, so it sounds like a core challenge is that the idea of contributing to open source is not a big thing in China and that usage of Fedora outside of work is down 13:22:33 Is that right? 13:22:35 zsun: does not have to be a problem 13:22:55 contributing has never been a big thing (yet) 13:23:12 gbraad: that is a problem sometimes, but I'd like not to explain it here 13:23:23 bexelbie: this is why the suggestion of last time is valid. as for centos it is far worse (no people). 13:23:31 ok 13:23:49 just... just... afraid it will be a lot of effort for just us two 13:24:00 that is understanding 13:24:05 understandable I mean 13:24:07 zsun: I know what you mean 13:24:25 gbraad: nop... I guess you don't really understand my point 13:24:42 zsun: I do ;-) 13:24:53 so, let's see if we can make this simpler maybe? 13:24:56 bexelbie: so... this is why I throw it in the open 13:25:00 If we could show off one Fedora thing, what would it be? 13:25:08 I am willing to do what is possible 13:26:19 I would be a technical person... for me there is not just one thing 13:26:21 bexelbie: I'd like to say it from the least, and we can add on top of that 13:26:43 minimal, set up a booth (need someone to take care of the booth of course) 13:26:56 first addition: submit a talk 13:27:16 zsun: about what? 13:27:26 zsun: EPEL? 13:27:26 secondary : the talk is something that can benefit to Fedora, instead of only show technologies 13:27:39 zsun, I understand your thinking, but wonder if thinking about pepole is important too. It takes a lot of effort to staff a booth. It takes less to have a talk. I think the talk is therefore easier 13:27:48 we can booth-share potentially to eliminate more staffing needs 13:28:06 bexelbie: you hit the nail on the head. 13:28:09 bexelbie: yes it takes less time to stand the booth.. 13:28:17 bexelbie: I believe we want balance two things at the same time 13:28:18 I was saying "one thing" with the idea of developing a demo that we could show off in a shared booth 13:28:24 and we cant 13:29:06 bexelbie: ah I mean it (talk) takes less time *than* to stand the booth 13:29:13 bexelbie: I would say: use Fedora... run minishift to host CentOS with OpenShift ;-) 13:29:41 gbraad: then you make your dayjob with Fedora and CentOS together ;-) 13:30:13 and I can also propose a talk for this 13:30:29 * gbraad wanted to propose this in the first plcae 13:30:58 I agree with this talk, if D. V. have no objections :-) 13:31:13 DV will not have 13:31:14 gbraad, I believe that minishift is a great talk I will be shocked if DV objects 13:31:35 bexelbie: DV wanted me to do this if possible ;-) 13:32:37 Personally I am not planning to deliver any talks this year. I just want to be more technical 13:33:00 only exception is for Release Parties and SFD 13:33:09 ok 13:33:36 bexelbie: we could work on a booth option with having us show of Fedora/CentOS for the use of container deployments... 13:33:37 but this draws away from the EPEL idea we had earlier 13:34:11 gbraad: I just come out to an idea, how about we also try a talk about RPM packaging? 13:34:21 it sounds like we have an external motivator for the container idea 13:34:31 so the question may be do we have enough people ot support doing the EPEL or RPM idea too 13:35:12 this is not something I can answer 13:35:24 bexelbie: I will ask mosquito (aka 1dot75cm in Github), he is in Beijing and active in packaging for Fedora Zhongwen User Group repo. 13:35:41 And I can help if he needs, since I am now co-maintaining a package.. 13:35:44 but he is not great at presenting and needs mentoring 13:36:17 and not familiar to the contributing and how fedora works 13:36:32 especially seen the recent conflict of interest we had with him 13:36:38 gbraad: I can be the mentor for him for presenting 13:37:08 gbraad: I think I can still try mentor him. I see he is open to ideas so easy to talk to 13:37:26 zsun: I am honest here again, I am disappointed that he did not even respond to the conflict/email we sent him 13:37:49 gbraad: I saw him disappeared on Gitter for long now... 13:37:49 zsun: maybe because he 13:37:51 agrees' 13:37:54 ? 13:38:28 gbraad: personally I agree that he is not familiar with the way Fedora do things (especially no-technical) 13:38:44 bexelbie: so, what could be our next step? still focus on CentOS as booth sharing/ shared effort? 13:39:27 gbraad: but from my previous experience with him, he will agree on existing guidelines. so I will reach him if needed 13:39:29 gbraad, I'll talk to them and see what they say and report back ... would that be good? 13:39:59 sure. We will anyways try to propose two talks. Minishift and RPM/EPEL 13:40:18 bexelbie, this sounds good to me. but maybe a little faster ? or get in sync by email before next meeting? 13:40:40 and try to balance having to do two things, by having some demo option that can be given for both parties... 13:40:51 gbraad +1 13:41:07 zsun, I'll do my best too 13:41:07 zsun, what is the best ml for a message, the ambassadors list? 13:41:27 ambassadors and china. 13:41:33 gbraad how do you think? I am fine for either ambassador or Chinese@ 13:41:37 ok 13:41:52 both... we already create a panacea 13:42:03 ok 13:42:12 the activity on the list is minimal, and makes us drift away from amabassadors 13:42:17 I will always get notification no matter you send to ambassador or chinese 13:42:34 I mean on my mobile 13:43:32 zsun: respond from you is not the problem... but other people, they are hard to reach/hardly involved 13:43:55 ok 13:44:18 wish we had a better story, bexelbie 13:44:46 hope we can make things happen, better for talks 13:45:30 gbraad, the story is what it is .. we make it better by working, so i am not unhappy at all :) 13:45:58 bexelbie: for us, we put a lot of time into it, but hardly any results 13:46:10 bexelbie: and this has been for quite some time already 13:46:12 gbraad, I respect that and am not making light of it 13:46:32 bexelbie: I am afraid, someone like zsun, will give up one day 13:46:48 we really need to raptor proof it more 13:46:59 gbraad: well, don't be so upset. at least not now 13:47:09 yep 13:47:34 bexelbie: some history: http://blog.melchua.com/2010/08/01/fedora-china-operation-raptor-proofing/ 13:47:36 Mel Chua » Blog Archive » Fedora China: Operation Raptor-Proofing 13:48:54 I will read it 13:49:00 please do ;-) 13:49:34 not much changed in all the years, :-/ 13:50:12 we saw an uptake in 2014, but it dropped off again in more recent time 13:50:15 then I can be happy in the accuracy and ease of getting the information :) 13:50:23 * bexelbie apologizes, but he has to drop earlier than usual today 13:50:38 bexelbie: no worries. 13:50:45 bexelbie feel free. We are sync now 13:51:00 zsun, gbraad thank you - I will poke at the CentOS folks early next week 13:51:00 bexelbie: zsun and I will continue with a slightly scaled down effort 13:51:29 propose two talks we can support ourselves 13:51:52 and I will set up a demo.... but will try to ask some support from the office here and my mentees 13:52:25 hope to align most of it as a way to scale effort we need to make 13:52:41 thanks... 13:52:41 so wrap up I would say... 13:53:08 zsun: bexelbie anything else? 13:53:14 nothing from me 13:53:30 nope 13:53:30 * bexelbie has scheduled a CentOS call for Wednesday 13:53:31 ok 13:53:31 3 13:53:31 ... 13:53:33 Timezones are hard 13:53:33 gbraad: thanks for the link. from the headline I agree almost no changes these years 13:53:34 2 13:53:37 ... 13:53:44 1 13:53:48 #endmeeting