16:04:53 #startmeeting 16:04:53 Meeting started Fri May 31 16:04:53 2013 UTC. The chair is stoney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:04:53 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:04:56 she is 16:04:58 But yes, we can let Stoney go. 16:05:00 :-) 16:05:03 #link foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2 16:05:12 irc://card.freenode.net/#link http://www.foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2 16:05:13 I've just provided the agenda for the meeting. 16:05:14 :) 16:05:17 sorry 16:05:21 :-) 16:05:27 #topic updates 16:05:37 The first item on the agenda is updates. 16:05:56 So would everyone like to provide a one-sentence update on how they are coming on the Stage 1 activities? 16:06:04 please prefix with #info 16:06:05 Please use the #info before your statement. 16:06:23 A bit frustrated 16:06:34 EllenZ: because? 16:06:36 oops 16:06:47 #info:a bit frustrated 16:07:00 because? 16:07:06 Spending WAY more time that was indicated... 16:07:16 oops than 16:07:29 Ah, that is good feedback. 16:07:31 I spent 7 hours just working through what might be some projects 16:07:35 On a particular activity? Or in general? 16:07:40 GNOME 16:07:48 too much to wade through 16:07:49 Ah, is this for the project evaluation activity? 16:07:55 stage 2 16:08:02 oops I meean part B 16:08:05 of stage 1 16:08:35 #info I had trouble with the evaluation activity 16:08:35 Maybe we should get an update from everyone first and then hold this discussion for the next topic? 16:08:46 #info kwurst has completed about 1/2 of the assignments. Unfortunately, mostly the ones without deliverables, so I've got writing to do today and tomorrow. 16:09:00 So you mean the project evaluation activity? 16:09:08 If so, you only needed to evaluate a single project. 16:09:11 #info yes. I picked Sahana 16:09:35 #info But the project info on sourceforge and ohloh seemed outdated 16:09:36 #info project evaluation I spent the most time on 16:09:55 #info I haven't been able to log in to the foss2serve wiki (though I have logged into the teachingopensource wiki; I can't tell if credentials are linked). so i blogged instead 16:10:07 sbenthall: That's good! 16:10:22 And sorry about the wiki. We need to fix the password thing. 16:10:28 no biggie 16:10:42 #info currently trying to understand the evaluation process, it does look pretty daunting 16:10:56 sonal, ellenz, Was the problem because you couldn't figure out where the information was to evaluate the projects? 16:11:08 Or can you more clearly articulate the problem? 16:11:13 #info actually my time sinc was even more so in the FOSS in course part 1 16:11:44 #info the GNOME accessibility roadmap was over a year old 16:12:02 #info I found some information about the project on its website, but couldn't find some of the information that I was expecting to find on ohloh 16:12:12 ah, OK. 16:12:13 #info I traversed and traversed and read and read and read and then landed some place that looked interesting 16:12:21 WHere did you land? 16:12:24 #info only to find out it was a different site? 16:13:10 what was that site? 16:13:31 #info Project possibility *had to look at my wiki 16:13:42 EllenZ, No need to #info everything 16:13:52 #info GCompris 16:13:54 \We just wanted the #info for the one sentence summary of your status. 16:14:00 oh, sorry 16:14:06 :-) Not a problem. 16:14:32 They were not actually under GNOME assessibility 16:14:34 Sounds like we need to provide a better starting point for that activity. 16:14:36 sorry to join late 16:14:39 Ah, got it. 16:14:42 Welcome Patti! 16:14:47 I posted all my topics, didnt come out very well on my wiki... 16:15:03 OK, no fuss. 16:15:21 Let's continue with the summary of progress. 16:15:32 #info I just returned from an unscheduled trip to Germany which threw my schedule off. I've been working on Parts B and C concurrently, in the process of finishing them. I agree with EllenZ though, it's taken much more time than I had anticipated too :) 16:15:39 just fixed it though, now it is readable 16:15:49 Hi Patti, agenda here: http://www.foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2 16:15:56 EllenZ: can you provide a link to your wiki 16:16:15 Ah, thank you esmail. 16:16:35 http://www.foss2serve.org/index.php/User:Ezimmer 16:16:46 We'll be asking for more detailed feedback at Stage 2. 16:16:56 I have just completed Part A... 16:16:57 If you scroll down you should see the "topics" for projects 16:17:03 It would be most helpful if you could identify exactly which activities took more time than expected. 16:17:20 Finding those "topics" took a long time! 16:17:28 and also if the time spent was productive or not... 16:17:32 * heidie looks 16:18:34 for me, since I wasn't too familiar with the sites or tools (though I knew about them) there was just a learning curve ... not quite sure how to structure this differently though - perhaps there will be a chance to brainstorm about this. 16:18:53 Ah, this was also a scoping issue with the activity. 16:19:09 Yes! There will definitely be time to brainstorm about the project and finding one. 16:19:21 yes, not familiar with GNOME site and it is SO complex... library, live, love, ORCA, Carabou... and on and on 16:19:29 Yes, that is true. 16:19:50 it seems like Ohloh has changed its user interface since the course materials were made 16:19:51 Did not know if we needed to stay in only GNOME Accessibility.. which seemed done other than bug stuff 16:20:00 EllenZ: what do you mean "Couldn't find anything that worked"? As in you couldn't find a project under GNOME that was a language you knew, humanitarian and reasonable scope? 16:20:02 I might also suggest that when you find that you're spending a lot more time than expected, this is a good time to turn to the community for direction. 16:20:05 sometimes there were references to parts of the site that didn't exist 16:20:14 Either via email or by chiming in on this IRC channel. 16:20:31 ooh good call 16:20:48 I didnt even know what question to ask and to what group since there are so many 16:21:07 Ask here first! 16:21:25 You've just highlighted one of the main reasons why POSSE exists. 16:21:26 I started drawing a map so I could notice where I had been before... lots of looping around 16:21:40 I thought I was the only one still in part B 16:21:42 Because it can be difficult to traverse HFOSS communities. 16:21:45 Nope, :-) 16:21:47 irc seems quiet .. I've been lurking on the sahana group too .. not much happening there ... 16:21:57 And yes, definitely reach out and ask questions! 16:22:06 I actually starte to jump to one of the other projects 16:22:11 EllenZ: Nope .. me too 16:22:17 I felt very overwhelmed with GNOME 16:22:26 Right, it can be so. 16:22:30 Heidi - 16:22:32 This is part of being producitvely lost. 16:22:35 :-) 16:22:42 per your question... yes, looking for a language 16:22:46 or something familiar 16:22:46 Ah, OK. 16:22:50 RIght. 16:23:03 I guess 16:23:09 productively lost... 16:23:24 I guess I will be there soon... 16:23:25 #info If you've spent a lot of time investigating things, go to the community. 16:23:25 But I have to get on the road tomorrow so I need to be productively found! 16:23:43 I have made this mistake over and over. I'm looking for information and cant' find it and I keep pushing. 16:23:49 Rather than asking the community for help. 16:24:00 help 16:24:08 I think it is an academic trait :-) 16:24:22 We're supposed to be able to find things out ourselves. 16:24:28 I find asking for help from the community to be something the students have a really hard time doing as well. 16:24:40 Ellenz, are you around after the meeting? We could chat then. 16:24:41 kwurst: true 16:24:41 I decided to move forward into part C 16:24:48 Yes, good decision. 16:24:48 yes... I can remain 16:24:53 did everyone have a chance to #info and update? 16:25:08 I dont' think so 16:25:12 I had to keep reminding them "If you can't find it, someone in the community must know, but just hasn't documented it." 16:25:15 Sonal? 16:25:29 "And then you can document it for the community..." 16:25:32 And Patti I think hasn't given us an update. 16:25:49 #info I gave up on evaluation and moved on to the bug tracker. I am now on source control 16:25:57 #info I have only gotten through Part A... 16:25:59 Good! 16:26:03 OK 16:26:15 (Anyone who wants can stay after and I'll answer questions) 16:26:56 ok... next topic? 16:27:04 Wait, Esmail? 16:27:10 Did I miss your post? 16:27:24 heidie: Yes, upstream :) 16:27:27 yes esmail ent 16:27:29 went 16:27:39 Ah, OK, I'll scroll back 16:27:59 currently working on parts B and C ... 16:28:16 #topic questions about POSSE stage 1 16:28:19 Got it. 16:28:31 So we started this, but are there other questions about Stage 1? 16:28:48 (I think we've been doing this... so if we are done... we can move on to stage 2) 16:28:51 Do we have to stay with the project we signed up for? 16:28:52 Yes, I am struggling to catch up.... 16:29:04 EllenZ: no 16:29:14 I will be the only one working on GNOME at the workshop anyway 16:29:16 What must I absolutely do before Monday? 16:29:29 patti: good question 16:29:51 * heidie looks at stage 1 activities 16:30:33 Skip the blogging. 16:31:03 Not sure how far everyone has gotten, so difficult to identify. 16:31:23 It may be helpful to have 'looked at' all of them. 16:31:31 OK... 16:31:32 Yes, good answer darci 16:31:35 Just limit the amount of time you spend on each. 16:31:44 exactly 16:31:49 timebox 16:32:04 My gut reaction (and heidie, stoney, darci please chime in) is that the course planning ones will be very important for stage 2 16:32:21 I've 'looked at' all of them. I plan to at least try to write the Course Planning 1 & 2. Or at least outline them... 16:32:24 Yes. But timeboxing is best. 16:32:37 lorip: yes... but it can be a bottomless pit 16:32:38 timeboxing? 16:32:50 set yourself a time (30min) and stick to it 16:32:54 hahaha 16:32:57 I have to say I think you guys have done a fabulous job putting this together and I apologize for not making the most of all your hard work 16:32:58 then reasses 16:33:01 :-) 16:33:03 30 minutes seems rather optimistic :) 16:33:09 right... well then I am done since I have put in 30 hours? 16:33:09 #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeboxing 16:33:24 I was about to ask what is timeboxing 16:33:32 thanks, Heidi 16:33:36 that doesn't mean stop at 30 minutes... just come back up for air 16:33:45 agreed stoney - but without some sense of what you want to do and what project might work in your environment it will be difficult to participate in some of the activities 16:33:52 The idea is to familiarize yourself with all of the activities before arriving in Phila. 16:33:54 yeah I need to stay on the surface for a while... my family misses me 16:34:03 stoney: similar to the pomodoro method I use then, good 16:34:14 If you've only got 2 hours, allocate that time across the remaining activities that you haven't yet looked at. 16:34:29 esmail: oh interesting, you find pomodoro works for you? 16:34:35 And do ask questions if you get stuck. 16:34:47 pomodoro? 16:34:50 sbenthall: for me it's one of the best ways to get work done 16:35:02 Specifically, ask questions of foss2serve 16:35:03 esmail: sounds about right 16:35:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique 16:35:13 http://www.pomodorotechnique.com/ 16:35:34 #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique 16:35:42 * darci looking 16:35:43 #link http://www.pomodorotechnique.com/ 16:36:15 very interesting links! 16:36:23 darci: you basicially work in 25 minute chunks, take a 5 minute break, and get back to work. Various free timing tools are available to help. (and you can adjust the work/break times) 16:37:05 EllenZ: is Trish from Edinboro not attending? 16:37:11 unfortunately I just work until done... 16:37:16 not attending 16:37:19 I have to say as a new AP... I can't believe how much of being a prof is time management... 16:37:23 Cool! I often work this way naturally. 16:37:28 heidie: reading for next topic? 16:37:41 heidie: "ready" i mean 16:37:52 camm, trish isn't coming to stage 2 16:38:03 :-) Yes, ready 16:38:14 #topic questions about POSSE stage 2 16:39:01 Does anyone have any questions about our upcoming face to face workshop? 16:39:05 any cheap parking in the area? 16:39:05 Are there questions about what we'll be doing in stage 2? 16:39:33 I think that ghislop is creating an updated handout for us. 16:39:35 Patti: Greg was working on parking at Drexel... 16:39:38 Patti, are you driving? 16:39:41 I will need to do that... 16:39:43 I think that Greg suggested you contact him. 16:39:44 Patti: good question... where is greg when you need him :) 16:39:52 not now :) .. I'll have some questions about logistics/timing if there's a chance to ask 16:39:57 yes, he was getting back to me today 16:39:57 Yes from Baltimore... 16:40:11 esmail: this is the time 16:40:34 Ah, so not flying in from San Juan :-) 16:40:49 I have two questions: attire? computer vs ipad on Sunday? on Monday? on Tuesday? 16:40:51 My flight gets in just before 5pm, will I have time to get to the hotel and then meet up with everyone at 6 on campus? 16:41:08 Provided that your flight is on time, most likely. 16:41:20 Hmmm, or not? 16:41:30 EllenZ: attire... casual? 16:41:30 Takes 15-30 minutes to get from airport to hotel. 16:41:44 Then register and then get to Drexel. This doesn't include picking up your luggage. 16:41:46 I just realized I do not know the hotel either? The agenda just indicates we get shuttled 16:41:49 the original instructions said to get in during the afternoon ... wish I had known about the times 16:41:50 Long story... needed to find cheapest way to get there because apparently I didn't buy the ticket when I thought I did... 16:42:01 heidie: carry on 16:42:01 EllenZ: Yes, casual 16:42:06 EllenZ: i would recommend something you can type on if need by (my inclination would be a laptop over an ipad) 16:42:07 Patti: Oh, that is frustrating! 16:42:09 heidie: luggage 16:42:36 So if you leave the airport at 5:00, you should be able to get to the hotel, register, then take a taxi or walk to Drexel. But it will be tight. 16:42:53 heidie: thanks .. I'll do my best. 16:42:56 Let's see if ghislop_afk is really afk 16:43:20 greg sent an email on 5/22 with local information - it has the hotel address at the top 16:43:26 EllenZ: It's Hotel Sonesta .. there was an e-mail with local info 16:43:38 I will check my email... osrry 16:43:38 * stoney reading to catch up 16:43:54 no problem - do you want me to forward it to you? 16:44:24 * stoney has caught up 16:44:35 * ghislop also reading... 16:44:38 * heidie It's been a rough ending to first year... 16:45:02 I'm working on an update of the local information... should email that to everyone within the hour... 16:45:03 EllenZ: definitely a laptop over an iPad -- there may be an opportunity to download/install development environments 16:45:08 I didn't even see that attachment to the email... well that helps now that I know I have the hotel and riections! 16:45:11 Ah, yes. Patti, it does get better :-) 16:45:16 it has more info on the airport shuttle and on parking 16:45:19 The first year of teaching is mostly learning :-) And there is so much learning you won't have to repeat the second year. 16:45:51 ghislop, esmail is arriving just before 5:00 on Sunday. Should he go to the hotel or directly to Drexel. 16:45:57 Patti: first year is the toughest... then you just get used to it :) 16:46:00 I am really looking forward to some hands on activities next week 16:46:04 lol 16:46:11 It will be nice to not feel so lost 16:46:12 We're starting at 6... so going to the hotel would be tight 16:46:35 I'd suggest going directly to drexel 16:46:37 patti: it *does* get better .. I just finished my first year at a new institution too .. 5 new preps .. ugh. Next year, only one :) 16:46:52 esmail: ooooo nice! 16:47:01 ghislop: I'll see what the timing will be when I get there ... 16:47:12 stoney: :) 16:47:28 ghislop: would it be better for me just to go to Drexel and check into hotel after Sunday agenda? 16:47:42 esmail: yes, that's good. was just thinking.. if you're early, probably time to go to the hotel... also perhaps if you only have carry-on bags... PHL can be very slow in baggage claim 16:47:43 Then I could leave my car at Drexel overnight for $12? 16:48:21 ghislop: Yes, I will only have carry on .. so if possible I'll head to the hotel first, then to campus. 16:48:52 EllenZ: the garage at drexel isn't open for visitors on Sunday... I'm looking for alternatives, but so far no good ones.. I'll address this in the email today. 16:49:10 esmail: that sounds good 16:49:55 Parking at hotel is expensive... will also look at train 16:49:56 Ghislop: ok. I am just noticing that a walk between hotel and campus works too... 16:50:20 yes. it's a mile walk. straight up Market St. 16:50:39 ghislop: Is there a phone number we can call (maybe yours?) in case of unforeseen emergencies? 16:50:40 a mile shouldn't take very long .. I'll probably walk ... 16:50:41 maybe there is another parking venue unrelated to hotel or campus? 16:51:10 sonal: I'll include some cell numbers in the email 16:51:18 thank you 16:51:58 I love it... we are knocking down issues!!! 16:52:15 EllenZ: not great choice for other parking options... I've been looking at that. 16:52:29 stoney: Are you putting them in the tracker? 16:52:34 maybe just have to do the hotel for Sunday but could move it MOnday? 16:52:44 kwurst: lol... no! 16:53:07 EllenZ: yes, that's the best option I've worked out so far. 16:53:12 kwurst: I was referring to all of the stuff being asked here :) 16:53:29 Would Drexel be available if we drive there at 7:45am on Monday? 16:53:37 ell: 16:53:40 EllenZ: 16:53:40 Just to move the car? 16:53:41 yes 16:53:49 can't type :-) 16:54:10 stoney: But don't they need to be documented, so they aren't issues in a future iteration of POSSE? 16:54:27 kwurst: that's a good point 16:54:42 It would be helpful to know the time of the first meeting on Sunday before making flight reservations - that would be my suggestion :) 16:54:59 stoney: You can just go back through the IRC transcript and capture them all... 16:55:08 Will we need our laptop Sunday night, or can I get away withouth schlepping it with me that first evening? 16:55:16 kwurst: I think I would have to sift through this and pick out those that are more general 16:55:24 esmail: There was a time posted in the original announcement. I guess we need to make that more prominent. 16:55:30 There is a schedule here. 16:55:31 esmail: yes, need laptop 16:55:33 #link http://www.foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities 16:56:02 esmail: we'll be doing an activity right out of the gate 16:56:25 stoney: sounds good, thanks. 16:56:30 I also added a link for the different project to the POSSE_2013-06 16:56:37 darci: thanks... see that's why you are the Queen of Meetings 16:56:38 under "tools" 16:56:53 I couldn't find a link to it anywhere 16:57:23 ghislop: I only found "expect to arrive Sunday afternoon .. workshop will begin with dinner .." but there wasn't a time (as there was for the other two days). If it was somewhere else, I missed it, so yes, making it more prominent would help :) 16:57:55 camm: "different project"? I'm not sure what you mean? 16:58:04 camm: ? were is the link you added? 16:58:08 "different projects" 16:58:23 http://foss2serve.org/index.php/POSSE_2013-06 16:58:27 darci: It's the "HFOSS Communities" link 16:58:34 pt.3 under tools 16:58:48 OH -- got it! 16:58:54 ok, got it 16:59:03 camm: That was really needed. I could never find a link to that list either. Other than through the list of all pages... 16:59:19 I changed the name to "POSSE HFOSS projects" 16:59:28 since "HFOSS Communities" is a little unclear 16:59:29 esmail: the page I meant is: http://foss2serve.org/index.php/POSSE_Announcement I remembered that it had the time because I've been wishing it was a bit earlier, but felt bound to stick with what we said! :-) 16:59:31 Right, we've all been navigating the wiki by using the All Pages link from the main page :-) 16:59:49 kwurst: I usually had to look in the IRC logs or in the modification history to find it :) 16:59:51 Camm: you didn't actually add projects... just the link to the page of projects - right? 17:00:19 EllenZ: yes, the 5 projects are set at this point 17:00:46 ghislop: ah, got it, thanks .. clearly slipped my attention otherwise I'd have tried an earlier flight. No biggie, I'll hustle and make it :) 17:00:48 I think there are some people who haven't decided yet, so you may not be only person on GNOME accessibility once people decide 17:01:02 the wiki is organized by category... the category assignment is not perfect, but the link from the front page to "by category" is helpful 17:01:29 Anyone here done research on the Ushahidi project? 17:01:50 According the the forges it seems dead... but the website has 2013 info and seems active 17:01:52 EllenZ: I have used it in two courses 17:01:52 EllenZ: Cam is our Ushahidi person... 17:01:56 I liked that one... 17:01:59 It is not dead 17:02:18 17:02:20 it looks like 12 people have tentatively chosen projects 17:02:20 The forges have "no activity" I think... or it is missing... 17:02:23 And Joanie Diggs who is co-lead on GNOME Accessibility will be at Stage 2 17:02:29 EllenZ: what "forges"? 17:02:33 So we'll have an expert to ask questions. 17:02:46 how many people are attending POSSE? 20 or so? 17:02:48 SourceForge and ohohl (or whatever it is :) 17:03:06 EllenZ: it is maintained on github https://github.com/Ushahidi 17:03:13 so yes, there are people who have not chosen a project and others may switch 17:03:20 Yes, the other links seemed very alive 17:03:26 lorip: just over 20 participants.... a total of about 30 in the room counting team, etc... 17:03:32 just the original search didn't turn up much 17:03:54 google searches you mean? 17:03:56 I thought if I was the only GNOME'er then I would be lonely at the f2f 17:04:29 no, on the sourceforge and on Ohloh.. 17:05:26 EllenZ: that may be a different project with the same name 17:05:33 on sourceforge at least 17:05:49 If you go to source forge and type in "Ushahidi" nothing comes up... looking deeper... you can get the Ushahidi Disaster recovery... but no activity 17:06:14 heidie: adjourn? but let people continue working 17:06:19 oh sorry... Disaster management... 17:06:28 Sure, that sounds fine. 17:06:34 #endmeeting