23:41:09 <StoneyJ> #startmeeting 23:41:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Jun 2 23:41:09 2013 UTC. The chair is StoneyJ. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 23:41:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 23:41:33 <StoneyJ> #topic Schedule - Monday 23:42:14 <StoneyJ> FYI, we did an ice-breaker using openetherpad 23:42:22 <StoneyJ> #link http://openetherpad.org/p/posse2a 23:42:32 <rebelsky> StoneyJ: Did you start the chatbot? (Sorry, just got on.) 23:42:36 <StoneyJ> yup 23:43:07 <rebelsky> Greg says that these workshops have been happening for a few years, but it's hard to see impact because when people get home, other stuff takes over. 23:43:24 <rebelsky> That's why we have stage 3: An opportunity for folks to work together on a particular open source project. 23:43:30 <rebelsky> And that can also help with the learning curve. 23:43:55 <rebelsky> @info Monday is laying the foundation blocks. (See the schedule for more details.) 23:44:15 <rebelsky> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities 23:44:37 <rebelsky> It's so much more than just writing code. So that's what we start with tomorrow. (That is, "it's more than just writing code") 23:44:51 <rebelsky> They realize that we need help getting started, so we'll spend some time on that. 23:45:24 <rebelsky> Then some more discussion of the communities - E.g., How do you approach a community? And we'll get different stories. 23:45:49 <rebelsky> Then they'll tell us more about stage three. 23:46:19 <rebelsky> Return to a deeper level of pedagogy - things like evaluation, fitting the schedule of a term to the schedule of a FOSS project. 23:46:45 <rebelsky> Exercise toward the end of the day - Plan what you're going to do. (Yeah, NSF and other funders would like to see some outcomes.) 23:46:54 <rebelsky> Goal: Get us to talk to each other and to compare notes. 23:47:08 <StoneyJ> #topic Tuesday Schedule 23:47:42 <rebelsky> First part of the morning is a discussion of processes and tools. It's an opportunity to talk about our Stage 1 activities. 23:48:09 <rebelsky> Basically - We had a taste of the tools. Now we'll talk about how they fit in terms of process and culture. 23:48:10 <StoneyJ> (go rebelsky!!) 23:48:42 <rebelsky> More sharing - What assignments have people written. And then even more sharing - What kinds of things are we thinking about. 23:49:04 <rebelsky> (StoneyJ: Like Heidi, I benefitted a lot from a good typing class.) 23:49:35 <rebelsky> Afternoon of Tuesday - Start working with your group. Start some planning. 23:49:44 <rebelsky> A chance to poke into things together. 23:50:12 <rebelsky> And then to plan together. 23:50:23 <rebelsky> Then they need to get some feedback, particularly about stage I. 23:50:35 <rebelsky> #topic Projects and Acronyms 23:50:56 <rebelsky> (Hmmm ... would it make more sense just to post Greg's slides?) 23:51:13 <StoneyJ> #topic Projects and Acronyms 23:51:27 <rebelsky> #link teachingopensource.org is the granddaddy of all of this stuff. And yes, they know that it needs work. 23:51:36 <StoneyJ> (I think he did, I'm looking for the link) 23:51:51 <rebelsky> POSSE was started by Red Hat as an outreach to faculty after a pre-SIGCSE symposium about four years ago. 23:52:04 <rebelsky> POSSE == Professors' Open Source Summer Experience 23:52:26 <rebelsky> Why is there an H in HFOSS? Greg says that it's accidental. 23:53:11 <rebelsky> Student came back from ??? and convinced Trinity faculty to work on Sahana. Ralph Morelli, Heidi Ellis, and Greg (collaborating from out here). 23:53:22 <rebelsky> Students are very motivated by the ability to work on these types of projects. 23:53:47 <rebelsky> Research related to underrepresented groups suggests that seeing social relevance to projects attracts members of these groups. 23:54:01 <StoneyJ> #topic HFOSS and Higher Education 23:54:08 <rebelsky> Some others; SoftHum, HumIT, OpenFE 23:54:14 <StoneyJ> Slides link is ... 23:54:15 <rebelsky> HFOSS - Grant from NSF 23:54:18 <StoneyJ> #link http://foss2serve.org/images/foss2serve/d/da/POSSE_Stage2Materials.zip 23:54:25 <rebelsky> SoftHum another grant 23:54:38 <rebelsky> HumIT - Focusing on open source for IT students, rather than CS students 23:54:50 <rebelsky> OpenFE - Open Source Faculty Expertise - Funding this meeting 23:55:04 <rebelsky> Why? Because there's a significant learning curve for all of this. 23:55:29 <rebelsky> Also, the Red Hat program required some significant faculty investment (travel, hotel). 23:55:40 <rebelsky> We are the first POSSE under the new model! 23:55:58 <rebelsky> The danger of too many grants - Too many Web sites. 23:56:07 <rebelsky> Foss2Serve rolls all of this up together. 23:56:29 <rebelsky> (SamR refuses to type all of the names on the slide of the OpenFE team) 23:57:31 <rebelsky> (Karl will soon get to step down as chair.) 23:58:15 <StoneyJ> #topic Associated Colleagues 23:58:16 <rebelsky> #link http://opensource.com (a project Ruth works on at Red Hat) 23:58:39 <rebelsky> Ruth has also looked at pop culture metaphors in explaining open source 23:58:54 <rebelsky> Cam got sucked in to this project because he's done it on his own (and has done a good job) 23:58:55 <StoneyJ> (the link for downloading materials is more prominent at http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities) 23:59:26 <rebelsky> #topic The CS1 Introduction to FOSS 23:59:59 <rebelsky> (Greg notes that many people could give this intro, and it's just an intro. We'll delve more deeply.) 00:00:33 <StoneyJ> #topic FOSS Beginnings Free Software Definition 00:00:40 <rebelsky> Remember that there are four freedoms 00:00:52 <StoneyJ> #topic FOSS Today 00:01:11 <rebelsky> Another approach - What have the impacts of open source been? (FOSS today.) 00:01:42 <rebelsky> Obvious examples: Android (vs iOS), Apache (vs. IIS), Linux (vs. Windows) 00:01:50 <rebelsky> In each case, the open source is a clear market competitor. 00:02:30 <rebelsky> The products are credible, but compete less or more successfully. (E.g., OpenOffice.org doesn't compete with Microsoft Office as well as Firefox competes with IE) 00:02:46 <rebelsky> FOSS is not something that you can ignore. 00:02:55 <StoneyJ> #topic Control 00:03:01 <rebelsky> And students need deeper knowledge. Many don't quite understand about open source. 00:03:30 <rebelsky> Think about it as an educator - What are the obstacles, opportunities, etc. 00:03:52 <rebelsky> Note: The model that "Anyone can contribute anything" is chaos. A real open source control has processes, hierarchy, people in control, etc. 00:04:12 <rebelsky> Products live under version control. Those with commit authority have the power. 00:04:32 <rebelsky> Educational perspective: Organizational structure is good. There is a process (although it may not be clearly defined.) And that's something you can work with as an instructor. 00:04:44 <rebelsky> But you need a project in which the control is amenable to you and your students. 00:05:00 <rebelsky> Remember also: Not all projects are open to new people. 00:05:19 <StoneyJ> #topic control and community 00:05:27 <rebelsky> There are multiple models for how people get involved. Greg Dekoenigsburg (sp?) has a "Contributor Mountain" model. 00:05:43 <rebelsky> At the bottom: Clients and customers, who use the product but don't interact much with the community. 00:05:55 <rebelsky> Then a smaller group who connect to the community for answers on how to use. 00:06:23 <rebelsky> This group may then graduate to another level in which they contribute (bug reports, then feature requests, then ....) 00:06:43 <rebelsky> Then can move forward to being a different kind of contributor - documenting, fixing, developing, etc. 00:06:54 <rebelsky> It's a spectrum - Not an us vs. them 00:06:55 <StoneyJ> #topic community 00:07:09 <rebelsky> #link http://www.kitware.com/blog/home/post/263 - Why we don't call you a 'user' 00:07:31 <StoneyJ> #link http://www.kitware.com/blog/home/post/263 00:07:33 <rebelsky> There's an assumption that people can move from passive "user" to active participants. 00:07:39 <StoneyJ> :) 00:07:49 <rebelsky> That's a very different model (philosophy) than you traditionally see in proprietary software 00:08:35 <rebelsky> It's useful for our students to think about the two different mindsets - Where will you live along the spectrum, along the mindsets, etc. 00:09:00 <rebelsky> Community - "Open - It's not the code, it's the community." Very open to new partiicipants. 00:09:06 <rebelsky> And this openness makes it exciting. 00:09:25 <rebelsky> Question: How much of the code is really developed by volunteers? 00:09:39 <rebelsky> Studies show a significant amount of FOSS work is done by people paid to work on open source projects. 00:10:20 <StoneyJ> #topic communication 00:10:25 <rebelsky> It's a very different kind of world than proprietary software. You can't just volunteer to work on a proprietary project, but lots of opportunities in FOSS. 00:10:39 <rebelsky> "More communication is generally better". 00:10:49 <rebelsky> And FOSS has many channels of communication. 00:11:16 <rebelsky> To survive in a distributed, multinational environment, FOSS projects need a lot of tools and strategies. 00:11:40 <rebelsky> Important issue: There's room for lurkers. Many projects use IRC for regular meetings, and anyone can join the channel. 00:11:58 <rebelsky> And even if you're not on the channel, a meetbot often has recorded the meeting. 00:12:13 <rebelsky> "Read through the chatbot logs from this project" is a useful assignment. 00:12:35 <rebelsky> All of this excites Greg. 00:13:03 <StoneyJ> #topic Callenges in Student Participation 00:13:29 <rebelsky> But there's a huge learning curve issue - even for someone with as much experience as Greg. 00:13:46 <rebelsky> Example: It's wonderful for a student used to toy projects to see a huge code base. But it's also difficult and scary. 00:13:57 <rebelsky> And some students are really intimidated about participating. 00:14:12 <rebelsky> Faculty have the same problem (often in spades). [Sam notes that he certainly has that problem.] 00:14:22 <rebelsky> How do you guide your students? 00:14:44 <rebelsky> Scheduling is an issue, too. For some reason, the world does not run on semesters (or quarters, or ....) 00:15:01 <rebelsky> Evaluating projects and subprojects is important. 00:15:04 <StoneyJ> #topic Challenges in Student Participation 00:15:23 <rebelsky> (StoneyJ: Why did you set the topic twice?) 00:15:54 <StoneyJ> I did? 00:15:59 <StoneyJ> Oops 00:16:01 <StoneyJ> :) 00:16:07 <StoneyJ> because you type too much :) 00:16:09 <StoneyJ> lol 00:16:18 <rebelsky> Big question: Where do we do this? What courses? 00:16:29 <StoneyJ> #topic Learning Opportunities - Soft Skills 00:16:34 <rebelsky> Isn't the goal to have a log of all of this? 00:16:49 <rebelsky> Open source projects are great at building their soft skills. 00:16:53 * howardf really appreciates this! 00:17:02 <rebelsky> Note: These projects also exist in domains. 00:17:10 <StoneyJ> #topic Learning Opportunities - Domain Knowledge 00:17:26 <rebelsky> Lots of domains: Health, Financial, Cryptography, Bioinformatics, Social issues, Etc. 00:17:35 <rebelsky> HowardF: Did you download the slides to help follow along? 00:17:40 <StoneyJ> (howardf: very good to know!) 00:17:43 <howardf> yes, i did.. thanks! 00:17:54 <rebelsky> We'll see lots of examples of what students have done (tomorrow). 00:18:00 <StoneyJ> #topic Students have ... 00:18:03 <rebelsky> But there are lots of quick examples: 00:18:09 <rebelsky> * Install instructions (videos, text) 00:18:20 <rebelsky> * Guidelines for downloading and such. 00:18:26 <StoneyJ> #topic pointers 00:18:41 <rebelsky> #link #http://producingoss.com/ - Producing Open Source Software by Fogel and ORA 00:18:51 <rebelsky> Greg says that you really need to look at all of these. 00:18:52 <StoneyJ> #link http://theopensourceway.org 00:19:00 <rebelsky> #link http://open-advice.org/ - Relatively new, lots of small tips 00:19:14 <rebelsky> #link http://theopensourceway.org - One of "a bunch of explanatory" texts 00:19:49 <rebelsky> #link The Cathedral and the Bazaar by ESR. (Sorry, too lazy to type link.) 00:20:08 <rebelsky> #link Ruth's YouTube video. 00:20:40 <howardf> (links are on the slides!) 00:21:03 <rebelsky> And links are also on #http://openetherpad.org/p/posse2a 00:21:14 <StoneyJ> Yes our fingers started falling off 00:21:25 <howardf> should i put my name there and some stuff about me? (etherpad?) 00:21:28 <StoneyJ> #topic wrapping up 00:21:41 <StoneyJ> howardf: definitly 00:21:45 <rebelsky> Note: There's an Ushahidi VM wandering around the room. We'll do an exercise with it tomorrow. 00:22:20 <rebelsky> StoneyJ: Can we chat afterwards about strategies for doing the IRC? 00:22:29 <StoneyJ> yup 00:23:10 <StoneyJ> link for vm will be posted to http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities 00:23:33 <rebelsky> HowardF: Let me know if you want fewer or more details, or other things that I can do. 00:23:36 <StoneyJ> discussing travel stuff 00:24:34 <howardf> well, anything on the slides doesn't need to be typed 00:24:58 <rebelsky> [Applause] 00:25:07 <rebelsky> [That's applause for Greg.] 00:25:09 <StoneyJ> #endmeeting