00:05:17 #startmeeting 00:05:17 Meeting started Tue Oct 28 00:05:17 2014 UTC. The chair is heidie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:05:17 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:05:28 #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2 00:06:10 #topic Updates 00:06:19 So ow are people coming with the activities? 00:06:46 * EdMirielli wondering how to get all this done... 00:06:57 On TOS, I can log in now, but still cannot edit the faculty roster, because the cat pictures do not show up. 00:07:05 Oh! 00:07:09 But you can get on? 00:07:15 * EdMirielli but will keep it to my self 00:07:20 #agreed 00:07:25 Yes, just no edits of any pages containing external URLs. 00:07:33 Ah, OK 00:07:36 I cannot get on to TOS yet 00:07:37 That's good. 00:07:45 Anyone else unable to get on TOS? 00:07:57 me 00:08:11 I attempted to create you all accounts, but I was getting an error wasn't sure that they went through. 00:08:16 I have tried off and on, but with no cats, I haven't tried for a few days. 00:08:33 Right, need to get a different recaptcha 00:08:37 I am doing the work, but not reporting 00:08:45 Ah, OK. 00:08:53 I got on TOS ok, added my name to Roll Call (but didn't do all the OSSL - yikes). What does #argeed mean (with the sharp)? 00:08:57 Reporting should go on the foss2serve wiki 00:09:06 That wiki you should be fine on. 00:09:53 other than problems with the TOS site, other issues? questions? 00:10:01 Barrett_Koster: The meetbot will automatically take notes. The hashmark indicates a command for the meetbot 00:10:15 i can log in to TOS, but haven't updated the roll call yet 00:10:38 Doing the work SLOWLY! Later this week I'll be done with midterms and get to reporting. 00:10:39 #link https://mchua.fedorapeople.org/talks/2011-rdu-posse/irc-zodbot-cheatsheet.pdf 00:11:10 Ah, so progress. 00:11:12 Good! 00:11:18 Did anyone find the meaning project statuses on sourceforge? 00:11:29 heidie: If you can link to the actual meeting notes output, Barrett_Koster might be able to see exactly what the commands do also (I'm trying to find the meeting logs list, but you may have the link closer at hand.) 00:11:33 And so to make the progress more clear, you can use the #info tag 00:11:41 From where did the TOC note orginate when you set up the TOS account? 00:11:55 meetbot cheat sheet - got it. 00:12:00 #info Some folks can get on TOS, but can't add themselves to roll call. 00:12:56 #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/POSSE_2014-11 00:13:07 Barrett_Koster: Here is a link to last time's log: 00:13:07 that contains our meeting minutes for the other IRC 00:13:10 #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/foss2serve/2014-10-24/foss2serve.2014-10-24-13.01.log.html 00:13:28 Andd here are the minutes: 00:13:30 #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/foss2serve/2014-10-24/foss2serve.2014-10-24-13.01.html 00:14:00 Will there be some time at the workshop to go over some of these activities? 00:14:23 #info The past two links are examples of meetbot logs (from our last meeting) 00:14:53 Thanks, I got the logs. How do I respond to a specific person ? 00:14:54 msoussavi: Yes, the face-to-face meeting will pull together many of the things that you've been learning. 00:15:01 I notice that some notes are FOR ME. 00:15:03 smoussavi: what did you have in mind? any specifics activities? 00:15:09 Barrett_Koster: in this channel where everyone can see it, or privately so only the target person can? 00:15:18 Barrett_Koster: Type their "nick" before your comment 00:15:40 (most IRC clients have tab-completion, so you can type the first letter or two of their name, then hit the Tab key) 00:15:40 EdMirielli: I'm not sure that I understand your question. TOC? 00:16:05 heidie TOS account, typo 00:16:31 Barrett_Koster: So right now, I'm calling you out in this message by putting your nick (Barrett_Koster) at the start of my message; try writing something starting with "mchua:" and you'll send one to me. 00:16:47 Barrett_Koster: Everyone will still see it, but it will show up as highlighted on my screen so it's easier for me to pay attention to in a busy room. 00:16:57 EdMirielli: I still not getting it. Are you asking where TOS account originates? 00:17:01 Or about the error message? 00:17:21 mchua got it. 00:17:25 or not 00:17:33 heidie i recall seeing a note stating an new TOS account was setup by someone or I thought -- and it came via email 00:17:59 Yes, it did come in via email. 00:18:06 mchua: missed the colon? 00:18:18 nick lorip It would be too lengthy for a medium like this 00:18:20 heidie I can't locate it in my inbox -- who is the from? 00:18:20 EdMirielli: Because the recaptcha is broken, you can't set up your own account.s 00:18:25 #info The initial TOS accoutn password came in an email from MediaWiki Mail 00:18:31 mchua: I need a shorter nick (nickname for nickname I assume). 00:18:33 "teachingopensource" I belive 00:18:38 EdMirielli: Might be from TOS 00:18:44 Barrett_Koster: You did it! The colon isn't necessary, you just need to start the message with their nick. 00:18:52 Thank you StevenCrain ! 00:18:59 mchua ok. 00:19:13 Barrett_Koster: Nah, some people have long nicks, it's ok. And yes, it's short for nickname. 00:19:51 heidie found it, but its from mediawiki mail... thanks 00:20:13 Ah, good! 00:20:37 Overall, don't worry too much if you can't access TOS. Please do log progress on your foss2serve wiki 00:21:04 And we're working to figure out the TOS issue. 00:21:43 So let's do this in a somewhat more formal way. 00:22:10 Could each of you provide a 1-2 sentence update on your progress, starting your comments with the #info tag so that they get in the notes? 00:22:14 mchua ok, but ... how do a I set a shorter one? 00:22:30 #info Working on getting the TOS wiki accounts up and running. 00:22:34 heidie ok. 00:23:13 #info For me part b is taking more time that I thought, and is challended by my schedule... making progress but no posts yet 00:23:15 #info I'm working on the part b activities - I've done the sourceforge and ohloh parts and also the blog, will do the others tomorrow/wednesday 00:23:38 #info I complete Part A last week, and have done the field trip. I still have most of Part B to catch up on, though. Busiest time of the semester here. 00:23:44 Ah, yes, please do feel free to time-block the activities. 00:23:57 Barrett_Koster: Do the same thing you did to set up Barrett_Koster as your nick, but use the shorter nick. 00:23:58 The idea is to spend 5-6 hours over 2 weeks, not lots and lots of hours. 00:24:08 #info I am making very slow progress on part B. I will be able to complete the activities by the end of this week though. 00:24:12 #info Baochuan finished part B of stage 1, but he is not sure about some of the answers. 00:24:14 Barrett_Koster: You could probably also just type "/nick bkos" (no quotes) into your IRC client and see what happens ;) 00:24:21 joanna_kl: good! 00:24:46 #info almost done with Part B, except writing the blog and wiki posts 00:24:49 BaochuanLu: Good! Bring all questions with you to stage 2 in November. 00:24:59 I guess we are all busy with students and now we are making the excuses that students normally give us ;) 00:25:02 We don't expect anyone to be experts in any of this, just to be somewhat familiar. 00:25:03 #info I completed part A activities. I just caught onto this IRC stuff Friday. I'm just starting on the SourceForge stuff, but I luuuuv SourceForge, so I imagine this will go ok. 00:25:06 :-) 00:25:07 #info I have not started part B as I did not know whether I could do it without my account. 00:25:22 if something is taking longer than you think it should, please drop one of us a line 00:26:04 barrett: see? magic! 00:26:05 we are happy to point you in the right direction 00:26:06 in general, completing the tasks steps by step, takes more than the time indicated 00:26:22 mchua yup 00:26:40 #info I'm on track with tasks. Only problems I've encountered are not getting on TOS, could not download sample IRC logs, and I monitored two IRC for 5 days and there was no activity. Not clear if that is normal. 00:26:50 #info doing a lot of reading of the resource materials and project info, but I have not started writing yet. Happy that it is consistent with what I thought I knew :) 00:26:51 * StevenCrain Barret the barbar: hey, I need a hair cut. 00:27:08 smoussavi: I agree with you. 00:27:15 robry: Yes, the traffic in a channel depends a lot on the project and where it is at. 00:27:17 robry: it is normal for small projects, very unusual for active/larger projects. Which channels were you monitoring? 00:27:31 #info I don't think any one thing is too much, just maintaining continuity using small blocks of time foes not work well for me personally 00:27:31 BTW, when it asks for “data” on the SourceForge projects, what specifically are you looking for? 00:27:32 If you monitored foss2serve, you wouldn't see much of anything for long stretches, and then a burst of activity. 00:27:41 stevenCrain nice :-) Maybe "barrett" works better. 00:27:55 Rduvall: Looking... 00:29:02 Rduvall: which question under the field trip part 1 are you referring to? 00:29:08 Rduvall: Can you clarify? What "data" in particular? 00:29:21 #info frankly I think the part b is well designed and involed - I want to get the most of it. 00:30:08 Yes, although the project evaluation activity can eat up a lot of time if you get involved. 00:30:19 johnrusso: How are you coming along 00:30:21 ? 00:30:35 mchua The sugar labs channel and the Sahana channel 00:31:16 robry: I wouldn't be surprised at shoe being smaller/quieter... in contrast, if you watch something like #fedora, you will get a flood 00:31:27 robry Were you on the Sahana channel or the Sahana Eden channel? 00:31:28 robry: er, by "shoe" I mean "those" 00:31:32 (I cannot type tonight.) 00:31:45 I think that Sahana has two different channels and the Eden channel is the current one. 00:32:13 heidie the Sahana Eden channel I think 00:32:20 Ah, that's the right one. 00:32:47 Anyone else have any updates? 00:32:52 Nevermind, it was in one of the example assignments, not ours. 00:33:03 Rduvall: Ah, OK, thanks. 00:33:34 OK, lets try questions. 00:33:40 #topic Questions on stage 1 00:33:54 Does anyone have any specific questions on stage 1 activities? 00:34:02 heidie: Sorry, not much actual content / questions from me. But I appreciate the meta stuff , help with the IRC. 00:35:43 OK, so I'm guessing that we've exhausted questions on stage 1. 00:35:47 Not on stage 1, but the workshop itself. I am using Ubuntu on my laptop, will this work for the workshop (going to RedHat and all). 00:35:52 I generally work on RedHat based systems, but there were too many drivers issues for my current laptop. 00:35:58 Let me encourage you all to please log progress on the foss2serve wiki. 00:36:07 The The assignments can be done *super* quickly once you're fluent with FOSS tools and terminology -- much like anything else. (We can code a "Hello World" function in our sleep in 30 seconds, but the first time a new student tries, it takes forever.) 00:36:13 #link http://blog.melchua.com/2010/10/08/possesa-fri-5-minutes-of-improvisation/ is a demo of how to quickly scope out a FOSS project in less than 5 minutes, and is roughly equivalent to one of your assignments (I think). 00:36:20 This helps us understand your progress and also what things need more coverage during stage 2. 00:36:49 So if you haven't logged on the foss2serve wiki, please do so ASAP. 00:37:25 #topic Questions on stage 2 00:37:43 #info Ubuntu is fine for a platform, joanna_kl 00:37:54 heidie: thanks 00:37:58 feel free to ask questions about logistics, etc. 00:38:12 mchua thanks for the 5min inprov 00:38:14 In fact, any linux distro is preferrable to Windows for the most part. 00:38:57 #info We'll get you information on exact location and room soon. 00:38:58 Do we need a linux distro for the workshop? 00:39:14 We've got a question into Red Hat about that and are waiting to hear back. 00:39:25 not necessarily - it depends upon which project you want to work with 00:39:29 robry: Most open source projects are on some variant of linux. 00:39:43 We have had people work successfully on a VirtualBox image in the past. 00:40:05 for example, the OpenMRS dev environment can be installed on Windows, Linux or Mac 00:40:40 I tried to login to add myself to rollcall, but even the username and password I got in the email, doesn't work 00:41:20 smoussavi: OK, so leave that and log progress on the foss2serve wiki 00:41:27 robry: what environment do you foresee your students using? 00:41:35 smoussavi: You should have received an email from ghislop with information about that account. 00:41:52 our students used OpenMRS on windows, so I used that as my dev environment 00:42:47 lorip I can have them use a linux version - I was just wondering for the workshop which box I need to bring. 00:43:00 I would bring linux then... 00:43:15 much of our departmental backend is CentOS, I was considering that... and thought or concerns? 00:43:37 EdMirielli: CentOS should be fine. 00:44:58 other questions? 00:45:10 I will say that Linux is a generally good life skill for technical-type people, *but* also (as some of you already know) has a steep learning curve. 00:45:25 It's a tradeoff whether you want your students to spend their time climbing that learning curve for Linux, or climbing it for something else. 00:45:50 (Especially if prereq courses teach it, or later courses use it, etc.) 00:46:52 since one of our goals is to get many of our liberal arts students involved in HFOSS the learning curve does pose a significant hurdle. 00:46:54 Are there other questions? 00:47:11 What is the alternative to Linux? Windows machines? 00:47:12 That having been said, I personally prefer having students use a true Linux system over one running in VirtualBox; installing VirtualBox often takes more time than just dual-booting the same computer. 00:47:36 #info we will have 1 more IRC before we meet in Raleigh - the two times will probably be Fri 11/7 or Mon 11/10 00:47:39 how much of stage 2 will be focused on OS and how much on the SW project? Maybe I missed that somewhere... 00:48:04 SW project? 00:48:12 robry: robry: yeah, I hear you on that. Picking projects that are very, very Windows-dev friendly will be important, then. 00:48:32 working on the FOSS project chosen 00:48:39 lynnlambert: Windows machines also work and will get you through stage 2 fine. 00:48:47 robry: or will they be doing coding at all? A lot of content work is often platform-agnostic -- you do whatever you do, then submit it via email or a web interface or something. 00:49:10 lynnlambert: I mention linux because folks typically want to get the environment set up for a project during stage 2 and may need Linux, depending on the project. 00:49:15 EdMirielli: the focus definitely is the HFOSS project 00:49:25 I was wondering about my students more than me. I did not see in the projects whether they had to develop in Linux. 00:49:32 robry: you can do a fantastic amount of FOSS contribution with just a web browser, actually. 00:49:33 EdMirielli: Stage 2 is mostly focused on the actual project. 00:49:35 lorip just checking with all the OS chat 00:50:17 EdMirielli: I think people just want to make sure they have an appropriate environment for working on the HFOSS project 00:50:19 Again, its just that what typically happens is that during stage 2 participants want to get started and many of the projects are on Linux so they can't unless they've got Linux either native or virtually. 00:50:27 mchua We don't have details yet - just now forming the program but a significant target are humanities majors with career goals in international/ngos 00:50:34 mchua: that answers my OS question for students. We can try to work in a browser environment 00:50:43 lynnlambert, robry: Matt Jadud at Berea and Karl Wurst at Worcester have both taught first-year humanities courses where the students contributed to FOSS without a whit of coding 00:50:45 lynnlambert: Many of the projects are in Linux, but not all. 00:51:14 lynnlambert: And my experience is that students do fine in a Linux environment as long as they've got a desktop. 00:51:29 lynnlambert, robry: their contributions were things like social media outreach plans, marketing materials, translations, tutorials, testing/feedback -- very useful 00:51:43 lynnlambert: They're used to having a variety of icon-based interfaces between their computers, tablets and phones so Linux ends up being just one more. 00:51:57 lorip understood on OS 00:52:05 lynnlambert, robry: (and actually helpful that they *didn't* have coding background -- they were able to articulate quite precisely what the experience of a novice user were) 00:52:10 I want my students to code. I was just hoping that they could do part of it on a neutral platform. 00:52:31 I think I'll bring a laptop with both environments - then I can choose at the time. 00:52:41 robry: :-) I like that idea! 00:52:56 I've got a dual-boot machine and I'm workingn on mounting my Windows partition from the Linux side. 00:53:09 robry that is a good idea 00:54:12 Doesn’t anyone have a Mac? It seems like the debate is only between Linux and Windows :) 00:54:39 I have a Mac 00:54:42 stoney has a mac, doesn't he heidie? 00:54:44 Rduvall: Now adays, there isn't that much difference between Mac and Linux. 00:55:04 Rduvall: I have a mac, and VMFusion for the few times I need Windows (and I'll add Linux), but many of my students use Windows, so I was asking about that. 00:55:05 That was my point! 00:55:09 lynnlambert: I'd make sure you choose a project that runs cross-platform, then -- but that's absolutely possible and should not be hard to find. 00:55:22 Yes, Stoney develops on a mac. 00:55:24 That works too. 00:55:31 Rduvall: the Macs even have more than one mouse button now! ;-) 00:57:09 I have to leave now. Talk to you all soon. 00:57:11 sorry, i need to run - train in 10 min.. nice talking to all of you 00:57:12 We are approaching 9:00 p.m. 00:57:18 Any final questions? 00:57:20 see you at the next IRC meeting 00:57:29 until next time 00:57:34 Thank you all. bye 00:57:40 I usually hang out on this IRC channel so feel free to ping me with questions. 00:57:43 I'll end the meeting. 00:57:46 #endmeeting