19:02:22 <darci> #startmeeting IRC 1
19:02:22 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May  3 19:02:22 2016 UTC.  The chair is darci. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:22 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc_1'
19:02:52 <djskrien> Hello, this is Dale Skrien from Colby College.
19:02:58 <darci> The meetbot will record a full log of our meeting and create minutes based on the special commands that we use.
19:03:10 <tomnaps> OK, I'm Tom Naps of UW Oshkosh, an "alum" who will be coming to my second POSSE
19:03:12 <darci> Our first topic is introductions (sorry).
19:03:19 <darci> #topic Introductions
19:03:30 <darci> Welcome to everyone!
19:03:32 <tomnaps> I attended the meeting in Raleigh in September 2015
19:04:00 <Leo__> Should we go in alphabetic order?
19:04:03 <darci> Can we start at the top with clif? You should precede your introduction with the #info tag
19:04:38 <darci> yes, alphabetical order :)
19:05:19 <clif> #info I'm Clif Kussmaul, at Muhlenberg College. I attended the Sept 2015 POSSE in Raleigh and have been involved in a variety of FOSS (not H-) projects, including Drupal, Moodle, and several wiki platforms. I'm also very involved in process oriented guided inquiry learning (POGIL)
19:05:45 <darci> chrismurphy: we are doing introduction...can you go next?
19:05:50 <chrismurphy> Sorry I'm late
19:05:54 <darci> no worries!
19:06:15 <chrismurphy> I'm Chris Murphy from UPenn. I attended the Nov 2014 POSSE and teach a course on open-source software development for undergrads.
19:06:36 <darci> #info I'm Chris Murphy from UPenn. I attended the Nov 2014 POSSE and teach a course on open-source software development for undergrads.
19:07:13 <darci> #info Hi! I'm Darci Burdge from Nassau Community College. I am a member of the foss2serve team. And I'm looking forward to another fun POSSE! :)
19:07:53 <ithabarr> #info John Barr from the CS department at Ithaca College, Ithaca, NY (we’re the “other college” in Ithaca.  I’ll be in Philly in June. I’ve done “open” software but never open source.
19:08:00 <janet_> #info This is Janet Davis. I'm the founding computer scientist at Whitman College. I was at Grinnell until last summer. This is my first POSSE. I'm here to think about how to teach Whitman's new software development course.
19:08:23 <darci> cool!
19:08:59 <darci> Leo__: are you here?
19:09:04 <Leo__> No
19:09:08 <Leo__> :)
19:09:17 * darci laughing
19:09:29 <janet_> We skipped daleskrien
19:09:49 <darci> daleskrien: would you like to go next?
19:09:52 <Leo__> #info This is Jiang Li, a.k.a Leo. I am an faculty member in Computer Science at Howard University in Washington DC. This is my first POSSE.
19:10:09 <darci> Thanks! Leo_
19:10:28 <daleskrien> I’m Dale Skrien at Colby College.  I teach an object-oriented design class and I want to give the students a FOSS project to work on instead of a toy project in that class.
19:10:44 <daleskrien> #info I’m Dale Skrien at Colby College.  I teach an object-oriented design class and I want to give the students a FOSS project to work on instead of a toy project in that class.
19:10:45 <darci> #info I’m Dale Skrien at Colby College.  I teach an object-oriented design class and I want to give the students a FOSS project to work on instead of a toy project in that class.
19:10:50 <darci> ha ha sorry!
19:11:14 <darci> How many students do you typically have?
19:11:14 <janet_> Dale, my Grinnell Colleague Sam Rebelsky had similar goals when he did POSSE. You might like to get in touch with him
19:11:58 <daleskrien> Janet, Thanks for the pointer.  I’ll contact Sam.
19:12:46 <janet_> You're welcome
19:13:11 <darci> patels13: would you like to go next?
19:14:01 <janet_> Did we miss kevin-brown?
19:14:04 <daleskrien> Janet,  Colby has 1800 students.  I will have 27 students in my OOD class this fall.
19:14:26 <darci> I don't think kevin-brown is here.
19:14:49 <daleskrien> Oops.  My last message was a reply to Darci, not Janet.
19:14:54 <janet_> :-)
19:15:23 <darci> Maybe patels13 is not here either...tomnaps, would you like to go next?
19:15:32 <tomnaps> #info Tom Naps, UW Oshkosh, attended previous POSSE in Raleigh in Sept. 2015.   Currently using OpenMRS as HFOSS case study in my Software Engineering course.
19:16:11 <wahlst> #info Tim Wahls at Dickinson College.  I've been involved with a few small FOSS projects but never used FOSS in teaching.  We are thinking about using FOSS projects in our senior seminar next year.
19:17:01 <darci> I'm so glad  that everyone could make ite.
19:17:08 <darci> *it
19:17:31 <darci> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_1#Agenda
19:17:44 <darci> We have an agenda at this link
19:18:41 <darci> We have a nice mix of new and former POSSE attendees, which is great!
19:19:04 <darci> Our goal for this first meeting is to become familiar with IRC.
19:19:14 <darci> Have you used IRC before?
19:19:33 <janet_> No, although my husband uses it all the time. It's nice to see what it's like!
19:19:40 <darci> :)
19:19:53 <janet_> He's a FreeBSD developer
19:20:13 <darci> cool!
19:20:14 <tomnaps> Yes I have.  However I had difficulty getting my students "into it" in trying to use it in my course.
19:20:16 <Leo__> I've used it a decade ago, but forgot about it.
19:20:46 <ithabarr> No, never used it.  But it seems much like IM.
19:21:03 <chrismurphy> Tom, I've found that students are resistant to it as well, but when they realize that just about every FOSS community uses it, they get on board quickly.
19:21:04 <darci> tomnaps: Do your students have a reason for their aversion?
19:21:52 <daleskrien> I’ve never used IRC.
19:21:53 <tomnaps> I have some ideas on how I can better motivate my students for it next time.   I plan on using it as a way for them to hold their individual team meetings, and I will listen in on those
19:22:29 <tomnaps> Nothing motivates students like their realizing the teachers is watching them as they work
19:22:31 <darci> I would agree with chrismurphy and might add that OpenMRS does use IRC, but they use other forms of communication as well. Maybe this is why they don't see it as being a primary form of communication?
19:22:36 <janet_> tomnaps :-)
19:22:45 <darci> Lol! So true tomnaps !!
19:22:58 <Leo__> IRC can be used to download files, right?
19:23:05 <darci> Students tend to like the /me command
19:23:39 * janet_ scratches head
19:23:46 <janet_> I guess it's kind of funnt
19:23:53 <janet_> * funny
19:24:10 <daleskrien> Not being an IRC user, will someone please tell me the main advantages of it over conference calls  (or sit-down meetings if everyone is already in the same building)?
19:24:12 <darci> They also are fond of the /nick command and often will change their nick midstream if the conversation is casual.
19:24:39 <tomnaps> What I've found very helpful for myself is to open an account at IRCCloud.   For $5.00 a month, it gives me a lot of options in the way I can watch and log IRC communications no matter where I am
19:24:45 <janet_> dalskrien: Asynchrony. You can participate in a conversation while doing other things. You can also have side conversations (like we are)
19:25:09 <janet_> My husband just leaves IRC on all the time unless he's really, really trying to concentrate
19:25:57 <darci> tomnaps: what are some other ways that you can "watch and log IRC communications"?
19:26:01 <Leo__> @dalskrien I think it take very little bandwidth and thus fast
19:26:18 <janet_> But daleskrien, I agree with your question, why *would* you use IRC if you can meet face to face?
19:26:50 <Leo__> Why would people text when they are in the same room?
19:26:54 <janet_> tomnaps, how would you imagine your students using IRC in their team meetings?
19:27:17 <janet_> \me sticks tongue out at Leo__ (all in good fun of course)
19:27:42 <clif> students text when they don't want the teacher to know what they're saying :-)
19:27:43 <darci> daleskrien: Sorry, I missed your question. The answer is that most of the time the people on IRC (or participating in a meeting) can be on different continents.
19:27:47 <Leo__> @janet_ slash, not backslash :)
19:28:01 * janet_ thumbs up
19:28:03 <tomnaps> Perhaps I could do the same thing with other IRC clients.   But next time I use IRC in Software Engineering, I will be able to set up a separate channel for each student team.  They will have to hold meetings a prescribed times, and I will be able to see the transcripts of those meetings even though I'm not online at the time of the meeting.
19:28:28 <janet_> How can you see transcripts of past meetings?
19:28:51 <Leo__> @tomnaps Do you literally read through all the transcripts?
19:28:55 <janet_> Never mind, I found it
19:29:49 <darci> The logs of our meeting will be posted on the foss2serve wiki in the same manner that they have been for previous POSSE's. You can see some here:  http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_1_Activities#Part_A:_First_Two_Weeks
19:30:19 <janet_> Thanks, darci! I also see the link at the bottom of the agenda
19:30:33 <darci> Ahh...good! :)
19:30:35 <tomnaps> Janet -- what I need to do is develop a rubric for what they should be doing in their meetings.   So there is a set of expectations.   Kind of like a daily "stand up" where each of them has to describe to other members of their team what they have accomplished.
19:30:59 <clif> sounds like it might be helpful to have a reference sheet or an activity that summarizes the pros/cons/purposes of various communication methods, to help students & teachers choose what is most appropriate
19:31:04 <janet_> tomnaps I like that idea.
19:56:21 <janet_> I'd be worried about slight differences in academic calendars or course schedules. You'd also have to make sure students' grades didn't depend on students at some other school. I like the idea though!
19:56:37 <darci> Agreed!
19:56:41 <darci> We are starting to run low on time.
19:56:45 <darci> Are there any other questions about the HFOSS projects?
19:56:47 <darci> okay...
19:56:47 <daleskrien> Some of the projects use github.  I've never required the students to use github in a course before.  Have any of you?  Are there any major problems to deal with?
19:56:48 <darci> Learning git!!!
19:56:48 <janet_> :-)
19:56:48 <ithabarr> Besides the HFOSS pages, how do we get info on the projects themselves?  As opposed to the project’s web page which (for Ushahidi is mostly about using the software)?
19:56:48 <janet_> I can recommend some resources
19:56:49 <janet_> Agree with ithabarr
19:56:50 <janet_> I am trying to find out what languages the Gnome Accessibility project uses and not having much luck. Should I email Heidi?
19:56:52 <janet_> I  meant I can recommend some resources on learning Git/GitHub. I have no idea how to learn more about these projects.
19:56:52 <tomnaps> Github is great from my perspective.   And they allow educational accounts where students can learn to use it "in private" without having their code searchable on the web
19:56:53 <darci> janet_: Yes, I think they use python
19:56:53 <ithabarr> I’ve used github quite a few times, especially in SE courses.  There are indeed major problems, especially if the sutdents have never used githb.
19:56:53 <janet_> Employers are saying students have to have a GitHub presence
19:56:54 <janet_> It's kind of like a portfolio - you can see what students have done in the public sphere
19:56:54 <ithabarr> We’ve started using github in some of our lower level courses and find that by the time they get to upper level courses they’re quite comfortable with it.
19:56:55 <janet_> I really like Git and GitHub. It's hard but no harder than anything else once you understand it. And you have to use some kind of revision control.
19:56:56 <tomnaps> See https://education.github.com/ for github's educational outreach efforts
19:57:18 <darci> ithabarr: What kind of information are you looking for?
19:58:08 <darci> You will likely find info on the projects wiki and on github (or where the source code is hosted).
19:58:26 <ithabarr> I’m curious about languages (like Janet)) and about what coding projects are available, etc.
19:59:31 <darci> I'm more familiar with OpenMRS, but can put you in contact with a colleague or two who are using Ushahidi.
19:59:31 <clif> there is definitely a set of skills needed to assess a project, figure out what technologies it uses, how people communicate, and how good a fit it might be for a particular course or set of students.
19:59:53 <clif> @darci - is this something we do later in the POSSE?
20:00:00 <darci> Yes, and that will be an upcoming activity.
20:00:17 <darci> It is done both during stage 1 and stage 2.
20:00:51 <clif> so be patient, grasshoppers - all will be made clear in time :-)
20:01:05 <darci> :)
20:01:10 <darci> It is 4:00 and I don't like our meeting to go much longer than an hour.
20:01:25 <janet_> Next steps? I have students at my door :-)
20:01:29 <darci> Are there any general questions?
20:01:41 <ithabarr> None here.
20:01:42 <tomnaps> More than coding in a particular language, my students struggle with the build process for something as large as OpenMRS -- understanding how frameworks such as Spring and Hibernate come into play
20:01:47 <darci> Next steps would be to continue the stage 1 activities.
20:02:03 <darci> You will hear from us again in the near future to set up another IRC meeting.
20:02:10 <clif> thank you everyone!
20:02:12 <tomnaps> No more questions/comments from me -- bye all!
20:02:22 <darci> Thank you to all!
20:02:28 <darci> And it was nice to meet you!
20:02:28 <ithabarr> Nice meeting everyone!
20:03:10 <darci> #endmeeting