19:04:06 <stoney> #startmeeting POSSE Stage 1 IRC 3
19:04:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun  7 19:04:06 2016 UTC.  The chair is stoney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:04:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:04:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'posse_stage_1_irc_3'
19:04:20 <stoney> #link agenda http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_3
19:04:34 <stoney> #topic Rollcall
19:04:44 <stoney> #info Stoney Jackson, WNE
19:04:49 <stoney> Hi all!
19:04:56 <Leo__> hi
19:05:07 <stewart_> Hi, everyone
19:05:12 <stoney> Please #info up your name for the record so we know who is here
19:05:21 <stewart_> #info stewart
19:05:24 <ithabarr> #info John Barr, Ithaca College
19:05:25 <tomnaps> hello all -- tom naps, uw oshkosh
19:05:36 <wahlst> #info Tim Wahls, Dickinson College
19:05:37 <djskrien> #info Dale Skrien, Colby College
19:05:50 <tomnaps> #info tom naps, uw oshkosh
19:05:52 <RonM> #info Ron McCleary, Avila University
19:06:00 <stoney> this group rocks!
19:06:14 <Leo__> #info Jiang (Leo) Li, Howard University
19:06:27 <Tony-Sena> #info Tony Sena, MassBay Community College
19:07:34 * stoney checking that we got everyone
19:08:00 <stoney> dzho and heidie , you there?
19:08:54 <stoney> Let's move on... maybe they'll pop in later
19:09:05 <stoney> #topic Stage 1 Progres
19:09:19 <stoney> So how are folks doing on the Stage 1 activities?
19:09:37 <stoney> Any major problems? Questions? Thoughts?
19:09:55 <stewart_> No problems here. I have just Part C #4 left
19:10:00 <wahlst> installing OpenMRS is wicked difficult!
19:10:16 <stoney> awesome stewart_
19:10:26 <Leo__> At the course planning phase.
19:10:31 <stoney> wahlst Right!
19:10:34 <Leo__> Need more idea.
19:10:43 <stewart_> I have not tried to install OpenMRS, so maybe that will be a problem - we'll see
19:10:45 <stoney> Did you actually manage to install OpenMRS?
19:10:56 <ithabarr> I’m into part C, course planning, getting ready to install Ushahidi
19:11:05 <wahlst> No - I tried three different approaches, and all failed around step 2 or 3.
19:11:30 <tomnaps> Regarding the comment on OpenMRS, I will bring an OpenMRS VM to Philly that will hopefully make OpenMRS development easier
19:11:31 <stoney> Remember to timebox that effort, as that could lead to a bottomless pit
19:11:45 <wahlst> Yes, I've officially given up for now.
19:11:46 <Tony-Sena> no problems so far. working on Paer C (2)
19:11:52 <stoney> good to konw tomnaps !
19:11:56 <djskrien> I installed OpenMRS and got it working with my favorite Java IDE:  Intellij IDEA.  I followed the installation instructions for that specific IDE.  It took two days and multiple tries.  Now I’m able to run things like Unit tests.
19:12:12 <stoney> nice djskrien !
19:12:26 <stoney> great Tony-Sena
19:13:09 <stoney> Leo__ you said you need more ideas?
19:13:12 <tomnaps> In the OpenMRS VM I'm putting together, the goal is to facilitate the development of OpenMRS modules by students
19:13:32 <Leo__> right.
19:13:38 <RonM> I'm quite a bit behind (too many of those "life happens" things recently) but plan to hit it hard the next few days
19:13:47 <Leo__> I would like to focus on programming part.
19:14:14 <stoney> Leo__ OK good. Do you have a course that you are targeting?
19:15:04 <Leo__> stoney  Not a specific course yet, but I am thinking of a course for open source dev.
19:15:05 <stoney> RonM life can do that. let me or someone know if you get stuck
19:15:20 <stoney> ah... so planning a new course?
19:15:39 <Leo__> i guess so
19:15:55 <Leo__> to help students get into the door of FOSS
19:16:05 <stoney> right, that's a good start
19:16:34 <stoney> Leo__ do you have the link handy for that activity?
19:16:39 <Leo__> But evaluation seems to be quit difficult.
19:17:05 <Leo__> stoney you mean to links provided on wiki?
19:17:16 <stoney> right
19:17:17 <RonM> stoney Will do. Thanks
19:17:25 <stoney> I could go dig, but if you've got it :)
19:17:36 * stoney starts digging
19:17:41 <Leo__> Not exactly sure which.
19:18:22 <stoney> #link C4 http://foss2serve.org/index.php/FOSS_in_Courses_2
19:18:38 <Leo__> thx
19:19:00 <Leo__> That one I actually had.
19:19:16 <tomnaps> For those working with OpenMRS, let me refer them to some work on a VM already done by Howard Francis, who attended last September's meeting -- http://foss2serve.org/index.php/OpenMRS-Dev
19:19:25 <stoney> Leo__ Right, so the goal is to have one or two ideas, not necessarily complete activities built
19:19:28 <glikins> (hi all) - am here, but multitasking :-)
19:19:40 <Leo__> stoney Got it.
19:19:58 <stoney> Leo__ awesome :)
19:20:11 <stoney> hi glikins
19:20:12 <stoney> !
19:20:24 <Leo__> stoney I am thinking maybe a FOSS project just for courses needs to be developed.
19:20:48 <wahlst> tomnaps: that looks to be very helpful - thank you!
19:21:00 <glikins> Leo__:  Why are you thinking that?
19:21:49 <Leo__> The learning curve for real-world project could be too long for students.
19:22:12 <Leo__> They will easily feel lost and give up.
19:22:12 <tomnaps> wahlst:  Using Howard's VM as a starting point, I'm adding a bit more to it.
19:22:49 <glikins> I'll let stoney, et al speak to this but my concern would be that by eliminating the external community component you'd lose the greatest benefits of FOSS project work
19:23:07 <stoney> Leo__ it depends on __how__ you want them to get involved in a project
19:23:18 <stoney> and what glikins  said
19:23:21 <wahlst> tomnaps: great!  O
19:23:41 <wahlst> sorry - meant to say that I'd like to talk with you about that when we are in Philly!
19:23:42 <stoney> one of the big advantages is getting them to experience working in a real community
19:23:58 <Leo__> That's right.
19:24:09 <stoney> at POSSE well be talking a lot about this kind of stuff
19:24:22 <Leo__> OK
19:24:23 <stoney> but it's good that you're thinking about all this now! :)
19:24:27 <djskrien> I’m worried that using git and GitHub will take up a huge amount of my and my student’s time.  For example, if students don’t understand the difference between pull, fetch, fork, and clone and use the wrong one, it might mess up their repo.  Am I over-reacting?
19:24:44 <stoney> djskrien yes and no
19:24:59 <darci> Leo__: There are lots of ways to support students within a real project. You also have to think about "what" you consider a success.
19:25:01 <stoney> I think it's good to be concerned
19:25:23 <stoney> it's probably not good to just throw students at git without any help or trainging
19:25:23 <Leo__> As I am in CS, I would like to focus on programming.
19:25:30 <ithabarr> djskrien: I’ve found that students pick up git in a class or two.  There’s some hand-holding required, but I haven’t had a problem with this in other courses.
19:25:39 <stoney> but as darci said they can learn it
19:25:40 <wahlst> I've had students use git (on github and sourceforge) without having too much trouble.
19:25:56 <glikins> djskrien: One of our instructors at RIT found that once the students got github, they *loved* it
19:26:03 <stoney> and I think it's important for them to learn some version control system... they'll need it :)
19:26:19 <glikins> (and I got github pretty quickly and I am not a programmer)
19:26:48 <darci> It is also knowledge that will follow them into their professional careers!
19:26:51 <stewart_> I cannot expect *all* of my students to"pick up" technology required for a class, such as git. It must be taught in my school.
19:26:57 <glikins> There are even some little "build a collaborative story" type exercises that teach the fork-pull request business with no programming at all
19:27:33 <stoney> we'll be doing a bit of that at the POSSE too! :)
19:27:41 <darci> So the learning curve is worthwhile! :)
19:27:43 <glikins> I think it's reasonable to expect you might need to teach it... but I think you can cover the basics of github in 20 minutes (plus there are *Really* good tutorials that can be homework)
19:28:12 <glikins> (And yes, from an employer perspective, it's definitely  expected)
19:28:25 <glikins> darci: ++
19:28:36 <darci> :)
19:29:01 * stoney lost his agenda... scrolling
19:29:26 <stewart_> My idea, for now, is to run an experimental "class" as independent study students, to see what works and the learning curve gradient
19:29:33 <tomnaps> Regarding Leo__'s "focus on programming", that's something that I tried to push too hard in my first go-round at using OpenMRS this spring, with the end results that many students were somewhat disappointed in what they ultimately achieved in that regard.
19:29:54 <tomnaps> I'm planning on changing my approach in that regard next year.
19:30:14 <Leo__> Good to know.
19:30:36 <wahlst> what kind of changes are you planning?  Or is that getting too far into details for this meeting?
19:31:54 <stoney> tomnaps feel free to answer wahlst... but in the interest of time I'm going to move the meeting along.
19:32:01 <tomnaps> wahlst:   I want to emphasize more how OpenMRS uses certain design patterns and frameworks (Spring and Hibernate) that support those patterns
19:32:08 <darci> stoney: have we talked about the results of B.4 and C.4 yet?
19:32:09 <stoney> we may have time for open discussion after
19:32:42 <stoney> darci we've been talking about B.4 and C.4... did I miss something?
19:32:53 <Tony-Sena> stewart_: I'm planning to run a class as an independent study too.
19:33:28 <darci> sorry, I came late...I wasn't sure if this was general discussion or specific to stage 1 :)
19:34:05 <stewart_> tony, that is good to know
19:36:19 <darci> For all:  One thing that is important to understand is that we will be using the results you have posted to the wiki for B.4 and C.4 during the face-2-face workshop, so please be sure to record these ideas there!
19:36:39 <stoney> ah... that's what I was forgetting! Thank you darci !
19:37:04 <stoney> #info For all:  One thing that is important to understand is that we will be using the results you have posted to the wiki for B.4 and C.4 during the face-2-face workshop, so please be sure to record these ideas there!
19:37:23 <stoney> thought I'd raise that to the minutes :)
19:37:32 * darci smiling
19:37:44 <stoney> OK.... next topic...
19:37:51 <darci> sure!
19:38:00 <stoney> #topic Sign up for groups
19:38:16 <stoney> has everyone here signed up for a group yet?
19:38:25 <stoney> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage2_Groups
19:39:03 <darci> You should signed up for a project and a course. Again, this will help guide what we do during the workshop in Philly.
19:39:21 <Leo__> yes
19:39:29 <stoney> Leo__ thanks! :)
19:39:30 <wahlst> looks like a lot of us have already done so
19:39:37 <stoney> good stuff
19:39:55 <stewart_> I am signed up for both
19:40:11 <stoney> OK... then on to the last topic...
19:40:27 <stoney> #topic git and C3
19:40:49 <stoney> I guess this is more of an announcement as was the previous topic
19:41:18 <stoney> but please make sure that you've completed C3 and install git before arriving
19:41:32 <stoney> we will be messing with them in stage 2
19:41:32 <darci> There will be two git activities...
19:41:58 <stoney> which you are also welcome to take and use in your classes too
19:42:04 <stoney> and modify
19:42:05 <darci> and yes, this will help alleviate some of the git fears!
19:42:08 <stoney> and contribute back
19:42:16 <darci> yes, please!
19:42:19 <stoney> sounds like open-source
19:42:20 <stoney> :)
19:42:51 <stoney> #topic Open Discussion
19:43:06 <stoney> OK I feel like I squelched conversation
19:43:14 <stoney> So, open discussion
19:43:15 <stoney> :)
19:43:42 <stoney> everyone ready for next week!?
19:43:49 <stoney> I know I'm excited
19:44:05 <stoney> I think I'm going to train down... I better buy my tickets
19:44:09 <stewart_> Short of installing the projects on my laptop, I think I am ready.
19:44:27 <darci> Just bought my train tickets yesterday!
19:44:40 <darci> Are there any travel questions?
19:44:42 <wahlst> looks like there are quite a few people interested in OpenMRS so might be easier to talk about specifics of the VM etc. in person.
19:44:44 <stewart_> Last year you used some type of online pad for sharign ideas. Will you do that again?
19:44:55 <darci> yep!
19:45:09 <stewart_> What is it called?
19:45:10 <stoney> we love etherpads :)
19:45:12 <darci> we usually have an IRC channel open too
19:45:24 <stoney> and we use titanpad
19:45:33 <darci> And sometimes get previous POSSE participants checking in.
19:45:38 <stewart_> They are purely web-based?
19:45:41 <stoney> yup
19:45:52 <tomnaps> I'm looking forward to taking what we did last September in getting going with OpenMRS and taking that "to the next level"
19:45:53 <stewart_> Thanks
19:46:11 <darci> tomnaps: I agree!
19:46:41 <Leo__> Can we have the detailed agenda again, like when we should get there?
19:46:42 <darci> Looking forward to hearing how you're using Howard's VM.
19:46:55 <stoney> ah good question Leo__
19:46:56 <stewart_> I will say that my biggest concern about OpenMRS is the fact that it is Java based and at Hunter the students do not learn Java. I have been cognizant of this and trying to work around it.
19:47:02 <stoney> i need that myself
19:47:19 * stoney digging
19:47:35 <darci> stoney: I'd say that we should share the draft version. It's pretty much done.
19:47:47 <Leo__> I remember there would be a reception, but not sure when.
19:47:50 <stoney> sure... got the link?
19:47:53 <stoney> handy?
19:47:54 <darci> http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities_Draft#Schedule
19:47:54 <tomnaps> OpenMRS would be difficult to get into for students with no Java background
19:48:41 <stewart_> I was thinking that documentation would be the way in.
19:48:45 <darci> We are scheduled to leave the hotel at 1:30. We usually travel in a group the first day...some walk, some will take the trolley
19:49:14 <stoney> aw yes... this is when I start to get in shape again :)
19:49:18 <tomnaps> Yes, they could certainly do OpenMRS stuff that didn't necessitate coding
19:49:29 <Leo__> As long as I arrive at the hotel before 1:30PM, it should be fine, right?
19:49:39 <darci> Leo__: yes
19:50:15 <Leo__> draci: thanks
19:50:36 <darci> tomnaps: they could also verify a bug
19:51:16 <tomnaps> I and my colleague (George Thomas) will not arrive until later in the afternoon (after 1:30).   We will catch up with others when we arrive.
19:51:39 <stewart_> bug verification is a good idea, thanks. This is what I hope we accomplish when we meet - helping each other to figure these things out
19:52:09 <stoney> I'm pretty sure greg will send something out soon that has more information on it, probably with "emergency" contact information so that if folks arrive late, or need something, etc.
19:52:37 <stoney> stewart_ that's exactly what this is all about :)
19:52:41 <darci> stewart_: yes, I'm really looking forward to it!
19:52:47 <darci> :)
19:53:02 <stoney> OK... motion to adjurn?
19:53:12 <stoney> *adjourn
19:53:13 <stewart_> Motion to adjourn
19:53:13 <darci> I always leave POSSE really excited about things to do in my classes
19:53:21 <darci> Second!
19:53:26 <stoney> #endmeeting