15:06:56 <stoney> #startmeeting IRC 2
15:06:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 26 15:06:56 2016 UTC.  The chair is stoney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:06:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:06:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc_2'
15:07:14 <heidie> Yes, we might be missing one or two?
15:07:30 <stoney> Ok... I'll just hang out for a bit
15:07:37 <stoney> Feels like office hours
15:07:57 <stoney> hey there's one!
15:08:04 <stoney> jadudm how you doing!
15:08:04 <stoney> ?
15:08:19 <jadudm> Was overrunning with a student; mentoring re: grad school...
15:08:28 <stoney> good stuff
15:08:48 <stoney> your the first POSSE vict... um participant that has shown
15:09:14 <jadudm> shown what?
15:09:22 <stoney> shown up here
15:09:24 <jadudm> ah.
15:09:29 <jadudm> it sounded wrong for a moment… ;)
15:09:38 <stoney> right
15:09:43 <stoney> this is being recorded
15:09:44 <stoney> :)
15:10:01 <stoney> OK... one more minute...
15:10:21 <stoney> and then we can just run through the agenda loosely
15:10:26 <jadudm> I’m here. I’ll await instructions.
15:10:56 <stoney> #link Agenda: http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2
15:11:09 <stoney> I think we'll skip introductions
15:11:20 <stoney> I think we all know each other here
15:11:27 <stoney> #topic Status Updates
15:11:33 <stoney> How are things going?
15:11:57 <stoney> Specifically, how are the activities going? Any troubles? Questions?
15:12:46 <jadudm> Lets see. I think I did the first set of activities.
15:13:06 <jadudm> It is possible I’m behind on my Stage 2.
15:13:10 <heidie> stoney, the only three people we are missing are Chunmei Liu, Pat Lee, and Joel Sweatte.
15:13:11 <jadudm> I’m looking for the page.
15:13:20 <heidie> And Joel hasn't attended any IRCs so far.
15:13:32 <stoney> heidie ok thanks
15:13:45 <stoney> jadudm me too.. but my browser is giving me troubles
15:13:58 <jadudm> The Stage 1 activities, having recently taught a deep-dive course, are things that I’ve mostly done. I’m refreshing myself, but they’re not “new” to me.
15:13:59 <heidie> I've updated the spreadsheet with attendees, including jadudm for today.
15:14:02 <stoney> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_1_Activities#Part_B:_Second_Two_Weeks
15:14:12 <stoney> thank you heidie !
15:14:19 <jadudm> Right.
15:14:35 <stoney> Awesome
15:14:48 <jadudm> So, I need to do these, which I will (because that way I’ve done the activities recently), but they’re not new. They’re partially reflective for me.
15:15:05 <stoney> Cool...
15:15:18 <stoney> my only comment would be to pay attention to the suggested time for each activity
15:15:23 <jadudm> FWIW, we’ve submitted CSC 4XX: Open Source Software Engineering to the committee that approves courses; we’re going to insert it into our standing rotation of 400-level courses.
15:15:29 <stoney> some of them can be a rabbit hole
15:15:43 <stoney> so you might want to time box it a bit
15:15:52 <jadudm> In this regard, having the whole Berea CS dept coming is good, because it means we’ll all be well-prepared to offer it on an ongoing basis. We’re also thinking about this in terms of capstone.
15:15:55 <stoney> That's fantastic!
15:16:18 <jadudm> That is, we think our capstone needs to be better structured, and perhaps using the FOSS/HFOSS dive as a way to structure capstone could be one pathway that helps us out.
15:16:20 <stoney> right, department buy-in is a good thing
15:16:37 <jadudm> We’re currently swimming in majors - something like 79 declared and over 100 are exploratory+declared+minors.
15:16:54 <jadudm> So, we need to make capstone… more streamlined. Right now, I have 17 independent projects to mentor, which is not sustainable.
15:17:06 <stoney> is that for the entire department? or are those new enrollments?
15:17:23 <jadudm> Er. We have an “exploratory declaration” process, and last spring we had… nearly 40 students.
15:17:35 <jadudm> So the 79 is the currently declared majors at all levels.
15:17:44 <stoney> ok, got it
15:17:46 <jadudm> The 100+ is “some are in our books as exploratory, but not yet declared."
15:17:48 <stoney> awesome
15:17:54 <jadudm> We will pick up more next spring…
15:18:14 <stoney> so freshmen don't declare a major right away
15:18:15 <stoney> ?
15:18:16 <jadudm> No.
15:18:23 <stoney> got it
15:18:28 <jadudm> Declaration is typically second term second year.
15:18:45 <jadudm> However, exploratory declaration (so we can pair up advisors with potential majors) is second semester first year.
15:18:48 <stoney> i see... just before registering for fall junior year
15:18:58 <jadudm> Right. But we catch them in an advising context first year.
15:19:16 <jadudm> They sometimes go another direction from their exploratory, but if you’re doing things right, you retain them at a high percentage.
15:19:30 <stoney> ok... i think i have a better idea of what "exploratory declaration" means...
15:19:32 <jadudm> However, some decide after their first course they’d rather go another direction, so we make sure they’re successful in that move.
15:19:36 <stoney> its like an intent to major in something
15:19:47 <stoney> right, cool
15:19:50 <jadudm> Right. And makes sure a professor in Nursing isn’t trying to advise on courses in CSC.
15:19:53 <jadudm> And visa-versa.
15:19:58 <stoney> sure
15:19:59 <stoney> :)
15:20:11 <stoney> #topic Projects
15:20:30 <stoney> so are you all thinking about a specific project for that capstone?
15:21:00 <jadudm> If we go that way (which would be good to talk to people at POSSE about), I think we’d have to have a small set of projects as standing options.
15:21:10 <jadudm> I’m currently a fan of OctoPrint, because we have six printers running it.
15:21:28 <jadudm> It’s Python, has a good community, and is really easy to get into, “because Python"
15:21:29 * stoney looks up OctoPrint
15:21:46 <stoney> cool
15:22:31 <jadudm> It has a plugin architecture, which means they can do things without having to be in the core, but the core is accessible
15:22:40 <stoney> During the POSSE activities there are a few projects that we are guiding folks to, primarily because they have a strong humanitarian aspect to them
15:22:42 <jadudm> And, the students can then run it on the printers that we have in our bay.
15:22:46 <jadudm> Right.
15:23:08 <jadudm> I’m currently off OpenMRS, based on our experiences last year—perhaps things have changed, but we could not get a build that we could work against.
15:23:35 <jadudm> I would like to find a lighter-weight community that we could work with on an ongoing basis; if there was something Appalachian-regional, or is used throughout the region, that would be a great fit.
15:23:39 <stoney> We would really like to find an HFOSS project that is as accessible as what it sounds like OctoPrint is
15:23:41 <jadudm> I haven’t deeply researched this yet, though.
15:23:46 <jadudm> Yeah.
15:23:53 <stoney> right
15:24:10 <stoney> MouseTrap was the lightest weight that we found
15:24:13 <stoney> so far
15:24:28 <jadudm> CodeWorkout wasn’t HFOSS, but it is educational.
15:24:39 * stoney looking
15:24:47 <jadudm> Stephen Edwards at VT leads it; it doesn’t have the same community feel, though, because it is led at an academic institution.
15:24:56 <jadudm> https://codeworkoutdev.cs.vt.edu/
15:25:07 <jadudm> Ruby on rails, and it was easy for the students to get involved.
15:25:21 <stoney> cool
15:25:23 <jadudm> However, it was really light on community interaction, because there isn’t currently a “community” of developers.
15:25:38 <stoney> right... that's part of a problem for mousetrap
15:25:47 <stoney> it has the GNOME community
15:25:48 <jadudm> However, it is something that I’d like us to be using in our curriculum… again, though, it’s a question of whether we call “educational” software “HFOSS”.
15:26:11 <stoney> but the project itself is really maintained by Heidi and I, and the students we bring into it
15:26:18 <jadudm> Ah.
15:26:31 <jadudm> That explains things I’ve heard about the MouseTrap community… *cough*
15:26:32 <stoney> we would really like professional developers working on the project
15:26:34 <jadudm> Kidding!
15:26:35 <jadudm> HA!
15:26:40 <jadudm> So much funny.
15:26:52 <stoney> no need to kid... I probably started the rummer
15:26:59 <stoney> :)
15:27:18 * stoney looks at agenda again
15:27:47 <stoney> While on the topic of projects, I want to direct your attention to the groups page.
15:27:54 <stoney> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage2_Groups
15:28:00 <stoney> This is the last part of part B
15:28:06 <stoney> If you haven't indicated your interests please do so when you have a chance - this helps us get a sense of peoples' interests and direction before arriving for Stage 2
15:28:38 <stoney> Guest29341 are you here for the IRC 2 POSSE meeting?
15:28:54 <Guest29341> Yes. Rob Hochberg. Sorry I'm late.
15:29:03 <stoney> Welcome!
15:29:21 <stoney> Let's catch you up
15:29:29 <jadudm> I’m alphabatizing sections.
15:29:44 <jadudm> Why? I have no idea.
15:29:47 <stoney> I'm  Stoney Jackson, from Western New England University and one of the foss2serve team mebers
15:30:00 <jadudm> I’m Matt Jadud, a member of the CSC faculty at Berea College.
15:30:08 <stoney> Perfect
15:30:35 <stoney> Guest29341 how are you doing on the stage 1 activities? Questions?
15:30:39 <Guest29341> I'm Rob Hochberg, University of Dallas Computer Science.
15:31:00 <Guest29341> Mostly done with stage 1. I'd like to know more about what "course" to sign up for.
15:31:42 <stoney> Probably one that you either regularly teach, or might teach
15:31:45 <Guest29341> That is, does "course" refer to what course I might like to implement FOSS in
15:31:53 <stoney> or one that loosely matches something you teach
15:32:00 <stoney> yes
15:32:02 <stoney> exactly
15:32:03 <Guest29341> Okay. Thanks!
15:32:14 <stoney> no problem :)
15:32:27 <jadudm> I feel like that was one of those “either/or” questions that was answered with “yes”. :)
15:32:35 <jadudm> I’m just inserting my name in places.
15:32:38 <stoney> oops
15:32:49 <jadudm> And alphabatizing everything.
15:33:18 <stoney> so... sign up for a course that you would might try to implement HFOSS stuff
15:33:25 <stoney> how's that?
15:33:38 <Guest29341> Okay. In that case, I'm a clear CS2 candidate. We don't have anything like
15:33:43 <Guest29341> software engineering here.
15:33:46 <stoney> awesome
15:34:24 <stoney> And now we are caught up to the current topic of Projects
15:34:42 <stoney> Have you given any thought to what project you might like to explore?
15:34:54 <stoney> Or any questions about various HFOSS projects?
15:35:17 <Guest29341> (Rob Hochberg) I'm interested in MouseTrap, becaues computer vision has been a thing we've been doing with our students.
15:35:36 <stoney> oh wow... that would be great!
15:35:54 <stoney> Heidi and I have been maintainers for MouseTrap for a couple years now
15:36:02 <stoney> so we're the right ones to ask
15:37:02 <stoney> we've lacked expertise in computer vision... so your crew would be a great addition
15:38:02 * jadudm momentarily multitasking...
15:38:02 <stoney> So I look forward to talking to you more :)
15:38:04 <Guest29341> So it's still considered active? This would be a very natural way to get FOSS into our curriculum, as projects for the post-CS2 kids, and hopefully into our High Performance Computing class, which we will be holding next semester.
15:38:14 <stoney> ah... sorry
15:38:20 <stoney> I got impatient :)
15:38:48 <stoney> ok... regarding active...
15:38:50 <Guest29341> We have experience more than expertise  :-) But this is a way to gain expertise.
15:39:04 <stoney> Heidi and I maintain it.
15:39:20 <stoney> When we have a class that works on it... that's the only time we have development on it
15:39:30 <stoney> there are no other developers other than us at the moment
15:39:55 <Guest29341> This sounds like a real opportunity for our students, then, to be major contributors to a real project.
15:40:02 <stoney> true
15:40:35 <Guest29341> So would it be something I could start trying to build interest in at this time? Of should I wait until after Raleigh?
15:40:40 <stoney> from our perspective, the disadvantage is that students don't get to engage a professional community of developers
15:41:10 <stoney> build interest with who? your students? faculty? all of the above?
15:41:39 <stoney> At this point, I think POSSE participants are still exploring different projects....
15:41:45 <Guest29341> I'm thinking of students. We have some looking for projects and/or research opportunities right now.
15:41:57 <stoney> there will be time during the Stage 2 meeting to talk about the different projects and learn more
15:42:23 <stoney> They are welcome to work on it
15:42:26 <Guest29341> Okay. Thanks. I'll wait until then...
15:42:48 <stoney> We do our best to review respond to bug reports, and review patches
15:43:57 <stoney> ok :)
15:44:07 <stoney> so last agenda item
15:44:12 <stoney> #topic Stage 2 questions
15:44:23 <stoney> Any questions about logistics for Stage 2?
15:44:52 <stoney> An email will go out with lots of details
15:45:01 <Guest29341> We were told in the last IRC to look for an email about airport trips and hotel info. And not to rent a car, since it won't be necessary...
15:45:16 <stoney> Right... hotel rooms will be booked for you
15:45:27 <stoney> that's true about the car
15:45:52 <stoney> you will need to book your flight/train/whatever
15:46:16 <stoney> let's see... lori mentioned when the email would go out in the last IRC meeting....
15:46:22 * stoney checking minutes
15:47:32 <Guest29341> I don't recall a timeframe for the email. Just "soon."
15:47:34 <stoney> expect an email in the week of november 8th
15:48:01 <stoney> that's what I found in the minutes
15:48:08 <Guest29341> Thanks.
15:48:58 <stoney> And I think that's before our last IRC meeting too
15:49:22 <stoney> ok... same week
15:49:42 <Guest29341> My flight was booked last month, and I sent info to Lori. I think I'm set for that.
15:49:49 <stoney> If you have any concerns though... just email Lori
15:49:53 <stoney> perfect!
15:49:55 <stoney> :)
15:50:13 <stoney> any other big burning questions?
15:50:17 <Guest29341> Okay. Will do. She's been very on top of things!
15:50:27 <stoney> she is!
15:50:43 <Guest29341> Nope. Just looking at the part B and C activities and thinking that another buckle-down session is called for!
15:50:57 <stoney> that sounds about right :)
15:51:20 <stoney> OK then... feel free to email us if you have any questions before the next IRC meeting
15:51:42 <stoney> Motion to adjourn?
15:51:49 <Guest29341> Thanks. Second.
15:51:55 <stoney> #endmeeting