00:02:59 <darci> #startmeeting IRC Meeting 2
00:02:59 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 29 00:02:59 2017 UTC.  The chair is darci. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:02:59 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:02:59 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc_meeting_2'
00:03:08 <darci> Welcome!
00:03:20 <darci> We will start with introductions.
00:03:28 <darci> Alphabetically from the top...
00:03:37 <darci> #topic Introductions
00:03:48 <darci> becka can you start?
00:04:10 <OSIMasson> kussmaul: Hmm, am I in the dog house?
00:05:02 <darci> Maybe becka stepped away...camm can you go first?
00:05:10 <camm> yes
00:05:15 <camm> My name is Cam Macdonell
00:05:25 <camm> I'm a professor at MacEwan University in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
00:05:35 <camm> I have incorporated FOSS software in my Software Engineering course
00:05:54 <camm> and I am the contact for those interested in Ushahidi
00:05:58 <camm> done.
00:06:11 <darci> Hi again...I am Darci Burdge
00:06:21 <becka> I'm here now
00:06:21 <darci> I am a Professor at Nassau Community College
00:06:29 <darci> I am a member of the foss2serve team
00:06:40 <darci> And I am really looking forward to SFO
00:06:42 <darci> Done!
00:06:51 <darci> becka...you are one!
00:06:55 <darci> *in
00:06:56 <becka> I am Becka. I am a professor at Western Oregon University
00:06:57 <darci> *on
00:06:59 <darci> :)
00:07:03 <becka> lol
00:07:30 <becka> I teach a senior level course on Open source software development
00:07:44 <becka> I am really looking forward to SFO
00:07:47 <becka> does
00:07:50 <becka> Done
00:08:33 <darci> heidie
00:08:36 <darci> are you here?
00:08:50 <heidie> Hi Folks, I'm a prof at Western New England University.
00:08:58 <heidie> I've been involving students in HFOSS since 2006.
00:09:13 <heidie> ANd I'm really looking forward to meeting everyone face-to-face in SFO!
00:10:13 <darci> howardf?
00:10:45 <darci> jburge: maybe you can go next
00:10:49 <howardf> Hi, I'm Howard from Univ of Pikeville (in Kentucky) I
00:11:22 <howardf> i'm a previous POSSE attendee (Nov '15) Using OpenMRS in my senior project class... and thinking about making it a central theme in my intro class in the fall
00:11:44 <darci> cool!
00:12:46 <darci> When you say intro class, do you mean a CS1?
00:13:22 <howardf> CS0
00:13:42 <darci> Okay, jburge?
00:13:44 <jburge> Hi! I’m Janet Burge from Colorado College
00:14:19 <jburge> We teach all our classes in 3.5 weeks of teaching every day. I started a class yesterday and it will be over when  we meet
00:14:35 <jburge> I am hoping to get senior capstone students working on HFOSS projects
00:14:38 <jburge> done
00:14:57 <jody_> HI, I'm Jody Paul from Metropolitan State University of Denver (Denver, Colorado) in the department of Mathematical and Computer Sciences.  Our courses include various projects, sometimes FOSS and sometimes not; choices made rather arbitrarily. I'm interested in a more intentional focus going forward. :)
00:15:02 <jody_> Done.
00:15:43 <kussmaul> Hi! Clif Kussmaul, Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA. I've used, contributed to, and consulted with several FOSS (not HFOSS) projects - Drupal, TWiki, etc. I've had students contribute to FOSS, mostly in project courses and independent study projects. I'm also on the foss2serve team, and looking forward to SFO - though I leave tomorrow for a conference & workshop in Europe.
00:15:46 <kussmaul> Done
00:16:27 <kussmaul> Mark?
00:16:30 <MarkG> My name is Mark Gondree. I'm a new professor at Sonoma State University (in CA). I teach a CS1 class and mostly intro classes for my first couple semesters.
00:16:46 <MarkG> My area of research is computer security, and I'll be teaching a security class next year, and likely a software engineering capstone after that. I'm interested in integrating HFOSS into student projects and those future classes.
00:16:54 <MarkG> I'm open to learning how to bring these into CS1 projects too, but I'm not sure about that
00:16:57 <MarkG> and I look forward to meeting everyone in SF. Done. =)
00:17:14 <kussmaul> I've met Gurman Gill in your dept
00:17:31 <MarkG> at SIGCSE?
00:17:48 <kussmaul> several times - at SIGCSE, via email, etc.
00:18:12 <MarkG> he's a great guy. right on the other side of my office wall now. =)
00:18:40 <kussmaul> OSIMAsson?
00:18:43 <OSIMasson> Hi all, I'm Patrick Masson, I'm an adjunct at SUNY Albany and I am also developing an online course (along w/the OERu and Univ. of Southern Queensland) based on Karl Fogel's "Producing Open Source Software." My full-time gig is General Manager at the Open Source Initiative. Really excited to be working with--and learning from--you all.
00:18:45 <darci> OSIMasson?
00:18:53 <darci> oops!
00:19:01 <OSIMasson> kussmaul: no worries
00:19:13 <OSIMasson> eol
00:19:49 <kussmaul> quaod?
00:19:51 <kussmaul> quaid?
00:20:05 <kussmaul> spot?
00:20:10 <quaid> hey
00:20:25 <darci> We're doing introductions
00:20:38 <quaid> I work on the same team as Spot at Red Hat, I'm a community architect & have been involved in POSSE on/off since the start.
00:20:58 <quaid> I'm based on Santa Cruz, CA, and am looking forward to being able to provide hands-on & local support for you all following POSSE.
00:21:04 <quaid> See you in a few weeks!
00:21:07 <quaid> ## 30 ##
00:21:44 <darci> Is that everyone?
00:21:57 <darci> I'm thinking yes...
00:22:11 <darci> If so, I'll change topics
00:22:30 <darci> #topic Stage 1 Progress - Questions?
00:22:46 <darci> We would love to hear how things are going?
00:23:06 <darci> And if there are any questions, please feel free to ask!
00:23:28 <OSIMasson> darci: pretty straight forward--just to start the conversation :-)
00:24:01 <darci> Maybe everyone could give a quick summary of the progress they have made.
00:24:10 <MarkG> can I just check-in to ask --- how far should we be? I think I've not done the "Copyright and Licensing" or "FOSS in Courses 1" activities
00:24:45 <MarkG> So, we should be nearing the end of "Part A" ?
00:25:14 <MarkG> If so, I think I'm on-track. I've only started to dip a toe into "Part B"
00:25:21 <darci> I guess ideally, you should be finished with part A and starting on part B
00:25:35 <darci> Oh, that sounds perfect!
00:25:50 <kussmaul> done with Part B by Apr 4
00:25:59 <kussmaul> done with Part C by Apr 19
00:26:15 <darci> With the understanding that there will be a lot of variation based on workload.
00:26:22 <OSIMasson> Completed Project Evaluation (Activity)
00:26:30 * MarkG feels relieved about his progress.
00:26:33 <heidie> Ah, good for you OSIMasson!
00:26:46 * darci smiling
00:26:58 <heidie> Project evaluation can take time so don't spend over an hour on that. '
00:27:00 <OSIMasson> heidie: I am stealing many of these activities for my own course
00:27:04 <heidie> Unless you want to of course.
00:27:15 <heidie> OSIMasson, Reuse is encouraged :-)
00:27:21 <jburge> Done with B except for the sign-up
00:27:29 <darci> Excellent!
00:27:36 <heidie> That's the idea. That folks use the activities that they can in their courses.
00:28:07 <howardf> I use most of the Stage 1 activities for my senior project class
00:28:19 <darci> We love to have variations on existing activities as well.
00:28:32 <MarkG> so, it seems like many people have started to apply the rubric. I'm a little confused how to evaluate "size" as a dimension of an open source project.
00:28:32 <camm> OSIMasson: what level is your online course targetted at?
00:28:34 <darci> So, if you do something a bit different, please share!
00:28:52 <OSIMasson> camm: undergraduates
00:29:17 <jody_> Have progressed through the Project Evaluation (Activity).  Am finding that I typically take longer than the anticipated amount of time... I guess I'm like my students in that way.
00:29:23 <OSIMasson> camm: those just beginning to work in/with open source
00:30:12 <camm> OSIMasson: so likely junior/senior-level, I presume? With reasonable programming experience?
00:30:47 <becka> working on guided tour. Lagging a bit :-(
00:31:04 <darci> MarkG: are you referring to the "size" of the project
00:31:47 <MarkG> darci: yes. I can figure it out (via installing the github add-on to my brower), but evaluating / interpreting size is hard. I think if a project is too big, it might be hard for my students to wrap their heads around it.
00:31:54 <OSIMasson> camm: the course is actually broader than technical development models, and covers topics relevant for other contributor/development types working in/with open source
00:32:24 <MarkG> too small, and ... well, I don't know. maybe there are no drawbacks to being too small.
00:32:32 <OSIMasson> camm: so there might be business majors interested in how to use open source for infrastructure (reduce start-up costs)
00:32:52 <camm> OSIMasson: Cool, I look forward to chatting in SFO
00:33:00 <OSIMasson> camm: or communications folks interested in marketing open source projects,
00:33:07 <darci> MarkG: I would agree! It has been somewhat challenging to find a project that is "just the right size" for lower level classes in particular (like CS2 or Data Structures).
00:33:22 <OSIMasson> camm: yes, I hope so. I am so excited to hear what others are up to
00:33:28 <kussmaul> if the project is too small, students don't really get what it's like to work on a real project - more like a typical academic projet
00:34:01 <OSIMasson> camm: Have you read Fogel's book?
00:34:25 <kussmaul> foss2serve.org and teachingopensource.org need more activities that could be used by non-CS majors - intro students, business majors, etc.
00:34:36 <OSIMasson> camm: http://producingoss.com/ (it was also referenced in the POSSE homework)
00:34:44 <howardf> i'd like to use OpenMRS in my CS1, but we use BlueJ, and opening large projects in that is not easy (and I really don't want to introduce them to Eclipse that early).. maybe a small OpenMRS module project might be more reasonable... hmmm (thinking out loud here)
00:34:50 <MarkG> kussmaul: yeah, true. too small robs the sense of working on something significant.
00:34:59 <camm> OSIMasson: Not yet :)
00:35:33 <darci> howardf: others have had some luck with OpenMRS modules and yes, much smaller than working in the core.
00:35:35 <camm> howardf: modules are a good approach for many projects
00:36:07 <howardf> i haven't studied modules much yet... i think i just figured out one of my summer projects
00:36:10 <kussmaul> +1 for working on modules - I've had good experiences with modules in Drupal, Moodle, wikis,
00:37:24 <darci> I think some of you have shared this information already, but which course(s) are you planning to incorporate HFOSS into first?
00:37:29 <OSIMasson> camm: :-)
00:37:37 <darci> #topic HFOSS in Courses
00:38:03 * howardf is very happy that BlueJ has git support now :)
00:38:21 <kussmaul> I mostly want to use (H)FOSS in Software Engineering (2nd year) and Capstone (4th year). I'd like to find ways to introduce it in CS1/CS2.
00:39:15 <darci> Is anyone planning to incorporate HFOSS into a mobile app course?
00:39:25 <jody_> Software engineering -- would also like to use in CS Principles & CS 1
00:39:53 * becka waves good bye. will have to read log. Spring break trip starts now...
00:40:05 <darci> Bye! Have fun!
00:40:21 <becka> :-)
00:40:37 <howardf> Oh! I remember something I wanted to ask (not necessarily here, but here's as good a place as any)... Our First Year Studies course has a saturday session where students are assigned community service projects to work on, I am really interested in seeing if I can come up with an "online community service project" with OpenMRS for a group of students to do
00:41:33 <darci> Interesting!
00:41:41 <kussmaul> cool idea - any thoughts what you would have them do with openMRS?
00:42:04 <howardf> i dunno yet... it was just in my SIGCSE notes for future thought, and I haven't thought much about it yet
00:42:56 <darci> Are you thinking typical FOSS contributions or something different?
00:43:36 <howardf> something with OpenMRS... i'm trying to make that my goto project in my classes so i become more familiar with it
00:44:02 <howardf> it would have to be something with a really quick learning curve because I don't think i meet the students until the day this happens
00:44:21 <kussmaul> good idea to pick a few (or just one) project(s) to focus on, rather than getting spread too thin
00:44:25 <howardf> (I haven't been involved with the first years studies class, so i'm not sure how all the details of their service day works)
00:44:28 <MarkG> what are the "Evaluation" sites on the OpenMRS Atlas?
00:44:38 <quaid> OSIMasson
00:44:49 * quaid had a lag, sorry
00:44:51 <OSIMasson> quaid:
00:44:55 <MarkG> Maybe partnering with one of the "Clinical sites" might provide an opportunity for community service
00:45:17 <MarkG> like, there is a Berkeley Free Clinic using it..
00:45:28 <MarkG> maybe visit them when you come down to SFO?
00:45:39 <quaid> OSIMasson: was going to say that I have a "over a meal" discussion topic for interested people about open source infrastructure re: https://opensource.com/article/17/3/growth-open-source-project-infrastructures
00:46:02 <quaid> basically, how to run your infra like you run your code for a project
00:46:18 <quaid> only passwords & keys are secret, all else is out transparently
00:46:42 <howardf> i'm not in this posse group :( just wanting to keep myself connect to it so i don't lose focus on what i want to do
00:46:45 <OSIMasson> quaid: save me a seat at that table!
00:46:48 <quaid> I do think it's a potential avenue for CS/CE students even though infra is often slotted in IT-type training, partially it fits due to devops movement
00:46:58 <quaid> OSIMasson: for sure!
00:47:17 <MarkG> howardf: ah, sorry about the "when you are in SF" throwaway, then.
00:47:31 <howardf> np
00:47:59 <quaid> kussmaul: ^^^ above points as per your "more activities for non-CS majors"
00:49:11 <kussmaul> quaid: :-)
00:49:30 * quaid has to take off now, ttyl
00:49:33 <darci> Unless there are other thoughts/questions regarding stage 1, I'm thinking we should move on.
00:49:36 <kussmaul> we have a long list of ideas, and would love help fleshing them out into activities
00:49:41 <kussmaul> yes, good idea to move on
00:49:53 <darci> #topic POSSE Stage 2
00:50:07 <darci> We are getting every closer to stage 2.
00:50:21 <darci> Are there any questions?
00:50:45 <MarkG> can you summarize in a sentence the timeline for stage 2?
00:51:31 <darci> We will start at 2:00pm on Thursday and end at 2:00pm on Saturday.
00:51:50 <MarkG> oh, gee -- ha. stage 2 is just the duration of time we are in SF?
00:52:17 <darci> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities
00:52:38 <darci> Here is the draft agenda. This is likely to change a bit before we got to SFO.
00:52:51 <camm> MarkG: yes, Stage 2 is the in-person phase :)
00:53:13 <MarkG> gotcha. I thought SF was just a Stage 2 kick-off. Its all of Stage 2. thanks!
00:54:13 <darci> Yes, one of the things that everyone should do before stage 2 is fill in a course and a project that they would like to work on.
00:54:27 <darci> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage2_Groups
00:55:00 <darci> As part of one of the upcoming activities, you'll be asked to sign up for stage 2 groups.
00:55:30 <darci> This is a starting point for determining what people want to work on while in SFO.
00:56:14 <darci> Other questions?
00:56:23 <MarkG> what is "Stand-alone HFOSS / Openness" as a course?
00:57:36 <darci> A course that focuses only on HFOSS and/or openness in general, such as open data, open government, etc.
00:57:47 <MarkG> ah. thanks.
00:58:18 <darci> Greg Hislop has been interested in developing this kind of course.
00:58:26 <kussmaul> 2 different courses - a course for CS majors focused on HFOSS contribution, and a course for non-majors focused on openness more broadly
00:59:55 <kussmaul> other Qs?
00:59:56 <darci> It is getting close to 9:00, anything else?
01:00:25 <darci> Alright, thank you all!
01:00:40 <kussmaul> good night!
01:00:49 <camm> g'night!
01:00:49 <MarkG> gnite!
01:00:49 <darci> Will be talking one more time on IRC before we head to SFO!
01:00:58 <darci> bye!
01:00:59 <jody_> Bye
01:01:03 <jburge> bye
01:01:08 <darci> #endmeeting