20:01:52 <darci> #startmeeting POSSE Meeting 1
20:01:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri May  3 20:01:52 2019 UTC.
20:01:52 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
20:01:52 <zodbot> The chair is darci. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:01:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'posse_meeting_1'
20:02:05 <darci> #chair kussmaul
20:02:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: darci kussmaul
20:02:19 <darci> Hi everyone, welcome to our first IRC meeting for POSSE! :)
20:02:38 <darci> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_1 contains the agenda for this meeting
20:02:43 <kthurston> darci: Hello!
20:02:48 <darci> Hello!!
20:03:02 <darci> #topic Introductions
20:03:12 <darci> Let's begin with introductions.  We can proceed in roughly alphabetical order by user name (called a "nick" in IRC)
20:03:18 <YLong> Hello!
20:03:23 <darci> And we can use the #info command to gather a summary of this information.  I'll go first to demonstrate
20:03:36 <darci> #info I'm Darci Burdge and I'm a faculty member at Drexel University in Philadelphia.  I'm one of the organizers of POSSE.
20:03:43 <darci> Oops
20:04:09 <darci> #info I'm Darci Burdge and I'm a faculty member at Nassau Community College.  I'm one of the organizers of POSSE.
20:04:20 <darci> Getting institutions mixed up!
20:04:32 <kussmaul> #info I'm Clif Kussmaul, one of the POSSE organizers. I've very involved in FOSS and POGIL (Process Oriented Guided Inquiry Learning). I used to teach at Muhlenberg College.
20:05:06 <kthurston> #info I'm Karen Thurston, assistant professor of computer science at North Idaho College in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
20:05:19 <darci> Be sure to start your introduction with the #info tag
20:05:26 <darci> Thanks! kthurston!
20:05:37 <darci> Hi Clif!
20:05:52 <susan> #info I'm Susan Hammond, assistant professor of computer science at Faulkner University in Montgomery, Alabama.
20:06:31 <yuan> #info I'm Yuan Long and a faculty member of Computer Science Department at Georgia State University in Atlanta, GA.
20:06:34 <kussmaul> Hi Susan, good to connect with you again!
20:06:50 <susan> Thanks, Clif.  You, too.
20:06:58 <darci> Welcome yuan!
20:07:15 <darci> Is there anyone else?
20:07:16 <Olga_> Hello, I am Olga. Was just thrown away from chat so had to connect by phone. It's a pain to type this way. How are my students doing it all the time? :)
20:07:25 <kussmaul> Darci, Kevin Webb was at the last IRC, so may be AWK today.
20:07:49 <kussmaul> Hi Olga - our paths cross yet again
20:07:55 <darci> Good point!
20:07:59 <darci> You may notice that there are more folks on the channel that did not introduce themselves.
20:08:18 <Olga_> I'm also from Georgia State. Been involved with POGIL project but absolutely newbie in Posse.
20:08:21 <darci> As clif pointed out sometimes people are away and sometimes people are lurking.
20:08:43 <darci> Feel free to chat and ask questions as we go along.
20:09:18 <darci> OK, next agenda item…
20:09:27 <darci> #topic IRC and Meetbot basics
20:09:40 <darci> The agenda contains a short list of IRC and Meetbot commandsas well as links to more complete documentation for each.
20:09:51 <darci> Let's play with some of them.
20:10:01 <darci> Lines that start with / are IRC commands.
20:10:17 <darci> For example, /me <action> allows you to indicate an emotion or action
20:10:22 * darci waving
20:10:38 * kthurston waving back
20:10:42 * darci happy that it is Friday!
20:10:52 * susan smiling
20:11:03 <darci> :)
20:11:12 * yuan :)
20:11:22 <darci> You can use, /nick <nickname> to change your nickname.
20:11:54 <burdged> To show that one is away from the keyboard, they often append _afk or just _ to their nick.
20:12:19 <darci_> And of course they change it back when they return.
20:12:44 <darci> if you want to get someone&rsquo;s attention, put their nick in your postmost IRC clients will beep, flash, and/or highlight the line with the nick for the person named
20:12:54 <clifkussmaul> darci, darci, darci
20:13:14 <darci> kthurston: glad to meet you
20:13:34 <darci> clifkussmaul: That's too many beeps!
20:14:10 <yuan> darci: nice to meet you
20:14:12 <kthurston> darci: Windows10 displays a notification (lower right corner of screen) when I'm mentioned
20:14:37 <darci> Often the kind of notification that you receive depends on your IRC client.
20:14:48 <susan> kthurston: hit me up so I can see what notification I get
20:15:02 <darci> susan: hello again!
20:15:18 <kthurston> I'm using a web client, kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.freenode.net
20:15:21 <darci> yuan: Nice to meet you too!
20:15:37 <kthurston> susan: Here you go.
20:16:04 <susan> Hmm, mine's kind of boring, it just highlights the person who sent the message in red font.
20:16:22 <darci> hahaha...there's always another client!
20:16:45 <darci> you'll notice zodbot as a member of this channel
20:17:04 <darci> zodbot is a program sitting on this channel known as a meetbot
20:17:19 <darci> zodbot responds to lines that begin with #
20:17:37 <darci> so at the beginning of this meeting, I used #startmeeting
20:17:52 <darci> when zodbot saw this, it started recording this meeting
20:18:08 <darci> it is keeping a full transcript as well as a summary of the meeting
20:18:28 <darci> not all meetbot commands are available to everyone
20:18:42 <darci> whoever started the meeting is the chair of the meeting
20:18:54 <darci> some commands, like #topic, only work for a chair
20:19:10 <darci> A Chair can add other chairs to the meeting with #chair (as I did at the beginning of this meeting)
20:19:18 <darci> That's important to do, because only a chair can end the meeting #endmeeting
20:19:40 <darci> now there are several meetbot commands available to everyone
20:19:51 <darci> commands like #link, #info, and #action
20:20:00 <darci> these commands will be reflected in the summary zodbot produces after the meeting ends
20:20:16 <darci> Wow! That was a lot to say!
20:20:36 <darci> ok... so what questions are lingering about IRC or the meetbot?
20:21:09 <susan> I've never used an IRC channel before, but it will probably just take practice to get used to it.
20:21:25 <olga> same here, first time for me
20:21:37 <darci> IRC can seem a little awkward at times.
20:21:45 <kthurston> Darci: What can you say about security vulnerabilities?
20:22:08 <darci> Vulnerabilities with IRC?
20:22:14 <kthurston> Yes
20:22:38 <darci> Most channels are public, so I guess you need to bear that in mind.
20:23:15 <darci> Many OS projects use IRC, but lots of them are starting to move away from it.
20:23:23 <clifkussmaul> what sort of vulnerabilities are you curious about?
20:24:57 <kthurston> Most are open, unencrypted communications. You cannot necessarily restrict who joins. Just be careful if you are sent a file.
20:25:19 <clifkussmaul> good points!
20:25:49 <darci> Any other questions before we move on?
20:26:08 <susan> not from me
20:26:35 <darci> okay then...
20:26:37 <darci> #topic HFOSS projects
20:26:49 <darci> It's early in our work to be looking at projects, but we encourage you to start to consider HFOSS projects that might interest you.
20:27:05 <darci> We also pick a few to use as focal points for the Stage 2, in-person workshop
20:27:14 <darci> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/HFOSS_Communities
20:28:11 <darci> Our group work during the face-to-face workshop often centers around a project or a course
20:28:39 <darci> For us, that changes from workshop to workshop based upon the interests of the attendees
20:29:35 <darci> Again, it's early, but think about projects as you work throught the activities.
20:29:51 <darci> Are there any questions about the activities?
20:30:06 <clifkussmaul> by "might interest you" we also mean "might interest your students" - people are generally more motivated to work on projects that interest them :-)
20:30:18 <darci> good point!
20:31:13 <susan> i haven't gotten far on the activities yet.  We just finished final exams, so I hope to get through the rest of them soon.
20:31:36 <darci> susan: no worries...we all understand!
20:31:39 <clifkussmaul> It might also be easier to make plans for the future if you have a specific course and a specific project in mind.
20:31:50 <clifkussmaul> this is a busy time of year for most people :-)
20:32:11 <olga> right. exams are still going on...
20:32:12 <darci> that is always a concern when we offer a workshop that starts soon after the end of a semester
20:32:28 <susan> I'm teach a project management class this fall.  I was planning on using some of what I learn here in that class.
20:32:51 <darci> I think that will be a good fit!
20:33:06 <olga> I am looking for a projects for beginners but such that they can take it further as they grow in their skills
20:33:36 <darci> susan: what kinds of projects are your students typically invovled in?
20:34:57 <susan> It varies.  It's every other year, and I haven't taught it in a while.  I usually try to let them work on something the university might be able to use.
20:35:13 <darci> olga: also doable, sometimes a bit harder, especially when your students know only one language...this limits the project with which they can interact
20:35:35 <darci> cool!
20:36:32 <olga> I see... need to explore more
20:36:44 <darci> olga: What class would you be teaching?
20:36:53 <olga> CS1!
20:37:31 <darci> You should also think about non-coding "things" they can or might do.
20:38:10 <darci> I think you'll explore some of these in part B of the pre-workshop activities.
20:38:14 <olga> Yes! That sounds great. Is there a repository of those?
20:38:39 <darci> You can search on TOS for CS1 I believe!
20:39:07 <darci> For CS1 activities.
20:39:08 <clifkussmaul> I've just started writing activities for CS1-2 where students study FOSS code to reinforce concepts. For example, looking at the JDK source for Arrays, ArrayList, and String.
20:40:02 <darci> Looking forward to seeing them clifkussmaul
20:40:04 <darci> :)
20:40:06 <clifkussmaul> Easier in Java since most of the JDK is written in Java; harder for Python since most of Python is written in C/C++. But I'm sure there are nice python libraries written in python.
20:41:01 <clifkussmaul> kthurston and yuan, what are your thoughts?
20:42:00 <kthurston> I have found an open source Tetris game written in C++ that I've used in CSI and CSII to illustrate C++ programming concepts in a working system.  It's small enough that students can understand most of it, even in CSI by the end of the semester.
20:42:18 <clifkussmaul> kthurston, that sounds cool
20:42:25 <darci> Yeah!
20:42:33 <kthurston> It uses the SDL library, which abstracts away some of the complexities of keyboard event handling.
20:43:18 <kthurston> I'd be happy to share the source if anyone is interested. I think you have a place to post resources like this?
20:43:31 <darci> Yes, do!
20:43:49 <yuan> I am also wondering if we can use the source code of Alice. Maybe Olga can use it CS1. And I can use it in CS2.
20:44:23 <darci> What language it is written in?
20:45:23 <clifkussmaul> according to Wikipedia, Alice is written in Java
20:45:46 <darci> hmmm...
20:45:49 <darci> good to know!
20:45:52 <yuan> Yes. It has a version in Java.
20:46:31 <darci> Is the source code open source?
20:46:38 <yuan> By playing games, students can understand the logic in a programming language first.
20:46:50 <clifkussmaul> However, wikipedia alos claims that "Some parts released under an open-source license, but with no source code available", which seem paradoxical...
20:47:30 <darci> Yes...
20:48:03 <darci> Any other thoughts about projects?
20:48:48 <kthurston> yuan: My approach with the Tetris game was what you said: Students play the game (which all have played before), but now they are thinking like a programmer.  I have them create a UML class diagram of the game before the "big reveal" of the source code.
20:48:53 <clifkussmaul> using source from Alice would be cool, especially if students had previously used Alice
20:50:46 <darci> kthurston: That's pretty cool! In general, my CS1 students really struggle with multiple classes and understanding how they interact with one  another.
20:51:31 <clifkussmaul> #help
20:51:48 <kthurston> darci: The Tetris game has 4 classes total, and no inheritance, just composition.
20:52:06 <darci> Please do share!
20:52:27 <darci> clifkussmaul: help with?
20:52:58 <clifkussmaul> darci: sorry, used wrong syntax for IRC help
20:53:13 <darci> :)
20:53:15 <clifkussmaul> other thoughts or questions, anyone?
20:53:16 <darci> No worries!
20:53:29 <darci> We are at the end of our agenda!
20:53:44 <darci> One last thought, please remember to provide short comments on the stage 1 activities as you work through them.
20:53:46 <yuan> kthurston: that is great. Some of my students are still struggling with basic programming language concepts. So I am planning to add Alice into the programming class to help them think as a programmer first.
20:53:53 <darci> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HvgclSLZE4f1fDrw9S7ywP6MrMsAaWjWXATQ3W7H3Wg/edit#gid=0
20:54:29 * clifkussmaul leaving to pickup daughter - look forward to working with everyone again soon
20:54:35 <kthurston> darci: thank you for the link, I forgot to bookmark yesterday.
20:54:39 <darci> bye clifkussmaul
20:54:55 <kthurston> goodbye!
20:54:55 <darci> You're welcome!
20:55:08 <darci> Bye all!
20:55:13 <susan> bye!
20:55:23 <yuan> Bye all!
20:55:26 <darci> I"ll end the meeting, but stick around for a bit in case there are any questions.
20:55:43 <darci> Thank you everyone!!
20:55:49 <darci> #endmeeting