20:10:41 <maxamillion> #startmeeting
20:10:41 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Dec  5 20:10:41 2009 UTC.  The chair is maxamillion. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:10:41 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:11:02 <mchua> thanks maxamillion!
20:11:07 <maxamillion> #topic Designing the Future of Software Operating System User Experiences (Gnome-sheel/Gnome 3.0)
20:11:10 <maxamillion> mchua: anytime :)
20:12:37 <maxamillion> Gnome Shell/3.0 is an upstream project being worked on by many developers including some within Fedora but it is ultimately an upstream project that will lead to a large portion of Gnome 3.0
20:12:52 <maxamillion> (sorry for redundancy in that statement, trying to listen and summarize at the same time)
20:14:02 <quaid> FYI for anyone in room 1, the audio isn't ...
20:14:33 <maxamillion> Gnome 2.0 was originally designed 10 years ago, the technologies have changed greatly, mobile devices are big now and were essentially non-existent back then
20:16:47 <maxamillion> Gnome 3.0 is using javascript to bind to mutter in order to provide a rapid prototyping development process
20:17:43 <maxamillion> Gnome 2.0 is considered as lacking in certain ways, such as not being able to find applications and documentation "easily" from the default UI
20:18:30 <maxamillion> We want Gnome 3.0 to rely on 3D as part of the core, as a goal with the user experience
20:19:06 <maxamillion> The scope is just the core desktop shell, there are scoped changes to some apps such as nautilus but the scope of the larger portion is to just change/remove the gnome2.x panels as it is now
20:19:36 <maxamillion> gnome3.x will be based on a metacity based fork incorporating clutter which provides the 3D native portions
20:20:13 <maxamillion> using all of this a gobject introspection (sp?) will allow for rapid prototyping using javascript and the UI libraries
20:21:19 <maxamillion> the idea came from the way firefox extensions are able to change things
20:22:42 <maxamillion> A lrge part of this design is to find a way to quickly get users to their content without "administrative overhead" of things such as icons and widgets, just general distractions
20:22:51 <maxamillion> large*
20:24:18 <maxamillion> these ideas have been talked about for years, chromeOS, the next version of firefox, palmOS, iphoneOS, etc. are all taking into account these design concepts and the gnome project plans to be there leading the desktop environments in this .... wanting to take this into the core of the desgin instead of make it ad-hoc
20:24:43 <maxamillion> one of the basic desires of a computer is to get to and/or communicate with other people
20:24:59 <maxamillion> because of this, we want to incorporate these things directly into the interface
20:26:02 <maxamillion> <doing a demo of the latest gnome-shell git master build>
20:26:45 <maxamillion> we want to move to a model where nautilus is no longer driving the desktop, but the shell is taking over to get you to your stuff faster, more efficiently, and more fluently
20:27:02 <pwf> The latest master uses just one black bar at top for tools/utils, I assume that they're saying that will go away too eventually
20:27:19 <maxamillion> pwf: no, they are just demo'ing it right not
20:27:20 <maxamillion> now*
20:27:43 <pwf> pwf <-- stickster, in the room, having problems with home proxy :-)
20:27:52 <maxamillion> at the top right hand corner it shows user session and there is a little green dot next to it which means that user is available which integrates a persons "online status" directly into the desktop
20:28:48 <maxamillion> in the upper left, there is an "applications" button and a coresponding hot corner
20:29:06 <pwf> "Activities"
20:29:11 <maxamillion> you will find many things here, applications, places, recent documents, work spaces, etc.
20:29:19 <maxamillion> pwf: ah, yes, sorry .... activities*
20:29:22 <pwf> np :-)
20:29:42 <pwf> "It's a way of mediating between [the user] and what [they] want to do"
20:30:37 <maxamillion> some interfaces are heavily inspired by already existing environments and part of the point of gnome-shell is to have something very unique and recognizable by just a glance
20:32:13 <maxamillion> an idea about notifications is that they are currently annoying, they get in the way, and there is too much going on in their current location (upper right hand corner)
20:32:32 <maxamillion> the new design will have them notify on the bottom of the screen in a minimal container
20:33:28 <maxamillion> if you don't respond to messages they will queue up icons on the bottom right hand corner
20:34:02 <maxamillion> which can be later interacted with by mousing over the event/notication icon
20:34:26 <maxamillion> the idea is that you don't have to go through this task switching process
20:36:43 <mizmo> did sticksters question get answered?
20:36:45 * mizmo was wondering too
20:36:52 <pwf> mizmo: Yes
20:37:03 <mizmo> are they one-to-one or do they stack?
20:37:07 * pwf (stickster) asked if, say, multiple email events would be stacked
20:37:09 <pwf> The answer is yes
20:37:13 <mizmo> oh okay
20:37:18 <mizmo> thx :)
20:37:21 * pwf just took WAY too many words to ask :-)
20:37:21 <maxamillion> did I miss something?
20:37:45 <mizmo> maxamillion: more likely i spazzed, my apologies :)
20:37:56 <maxamillion> mizmo: no worries, just making sure I'm not slacking :P
20:40:36 <maxamillion> in the overview page there is the ability to undo actions
20:41:33 <maxamillion> (its actually a planned feature that is in a mockup, my mistake)
20:42:35 <maxamillion> #topic Designing the Future of Software Operating System User Experiences (Gnome-sheel/Gnome 3.0) - Q&A
20:45:16 <maxamillion> .... a question was asked and then a discussion spawned and I can't remember what the original question was, but the conversation is around users being able to subscribe to notifications so that they don't get notifications they don't want
20:46:35 <pwf> maxamillion: I think it had something to do with the example of Abrt, which presents something to non-admin users that they may not understand how to react to.
20:46:41 <maxamillion> ah
20:46:45 <maxamillion> yes :)
20:47:12 <maxamillion> now on to discussing about users handling the autologin to online services through programs like empathy
20:47:23 <maxamillion> also, talked briefly about the dependency on 3D interface and support
20:48:46 <maxamillion> Q:"What is the current plans for accessability?"
20:49:45 <maxamillion> A:"New framework for adding that support into more aspects of the desktop based on clutter and the S.D. Toolkit"
20:49:52 * maxamillion notes those are both paraphrased
20:58:28 <maxamillion> they want to rethink nautilus because users "stuff" is increasingly no longer on disk but on the internet, there hasn't been a decision on it yet but the redesign is planned
20:59:24 <pwf> SOmeone might want to call time
21:01:04 <maxamillion> there will technically be a fall back to metacity/gnome2 if need be for things such as livecd install on hardware that isn't 3d supported
21:02:11 * mchua notes time is almost up
21:02:18 <mchua> maxamillion: plz post to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Toronto_2009_BarCamp_Schedule when done
21:02:19 <maxamillion> planned release is october of 2010, Fedora 14 is potentially planned default
21:02:23 <maxamillion> mchua: of course :)
21:02:25 <maxamillion> #endmeeting