19:04:00 <spevack> #startmeeting
19:04:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Dec  5 19:04:00 2009 UTC.  The chair is spevack. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:04:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:04:29 <spevack> We're all here for Simon Britwistle's talk on Zikula, Fedora Marketing, and Fedora Websites
19:05:21 <spevack> s/Britwistle/Birtwistle
19:05:39 <spevack> 8 of us plus Simon
19:05:51 <spevack> This talk:
19:05:54 <spevack> * About Zikula
19:05:56 <spevack> * Fedora & Zikula
19:06:01 <spevack> * Fedora Insight
19:06:03 <spevack> * The future
19:06:16 * mchua will help
19:06:17 <Sparks> Is there a Talk conference room for this talk?
19:06:19 <spevack> Takeaways -- general zikula knowledge, familiarity w/ Fedora Insight
19:06:22 <mchua> (transcribe)
19:06:28 <mchua> Sparks: not atm
19:06:31 <spevack> Who is Simon?
19:06:39 <mchua> simon == itbegins
19:06:40 <Sparks> mchua: Okay, I'll be monitoring IRC.
19:06:50 <spevack> In Zikula, he is part of the Steering committee, Software Foundation, Docs/devel, and zikula community for 7 years
19:06:51 <mchua> our zikula guru, the one who's been helping us deploy it for docs and marketing
19:06:57 <spevack> In Fedora, Simon is part of Docs & Marketing
19:07:02 <spevack> ABOUT ZIKULA
19:07:15 <spevack> Application Framework, NOT just a Content Management System
19:07:20 <mchua> spevack: #topic about zikula?
19:07:27 <mchua> spevack: I'll be the link-finder
19:07:28 <spevack> #link http://www.zikula.org
19:07:37 <spevack> #topic About Zkiula
19:07:39 <mchua> #link http://community.ziula.org
19:07:43 <mchua> argh
19:07:51 <mchua> #link http://community.zikula.org
19:07:52 <spevack> * Easy administration of websites via panel
19:07:58 <spevack> * Flexibility and dynamic content
19:08:15 <spevack> * Extendable like Firefox
19:08:31 <mchua> Within Fedora:
19:08:34 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula
19:08:54 <spevack> #topic FEATURES & FOCUSES OF ZIKULA
19:09:09 <spevack> * Flexible -- modules, templated, etc.
19:09:12 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_set_up_a_Zikula_sandbox
19:09:19 <mchua> if you want to try it out
19:09:20 <spevack> * Secure -- audited by third parties
19:09:30 <mchua> requirements discussion from Fedora Docs re: zikula
19:09:34 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula_CMS_Option
19:09:52 <mchua> and an interview that Sparks did with itbegins back in the day
19:09:56 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula_IRC_Chat_Interview
19:10:52 <spevack> #topic FEDORA & ZIKULA
19:11:03 <spevack> Simon started working w/ Fedora about a year ago
19:11:15 <spevack> Zikula was selected to be the docs website replacement
19:11:29 <spevack> This was hard, but we moved to the Fedora Insight idea instead.
19:11:31 <spevack> Fedora Insight
19:11:34 <spevack> * New Marketing website
19:11:40 <spevack> * News & RSS feeds
19:11:40 <mchua> Docs meetings on  Zikula:
19:11:43 <spevack> * 80% complete
19:11:49 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Zikula_Meetings
19:11:50 <spevack> * FAS integrated, design mostly done
19:11:54 <mchua> WE WILL FINISH!
19:12:05 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight
19:12:34 <mchua> spevack: i think at some point we need to alk about what kind of things (content) we will have n there
19:12:44 <mchua> separate from the technology there's an on it
19:13:01 <mchua> separate from the technology
19:13:07 * mchua has lag of doom
19:13:10 <spevack> * Fedora Insight is integrated w/ Fedora Account System
19:13:25 <spevack> #topic ZIKULA HACKFEST
19:13:28 <spevack> Goals
19:13:31 <spevack> * Complete design work
19:13:35 <spevack> * Workflows & ACL
19:13:39 <spevack> * Performance
19:13:41 <spevack> * Administration
19:13:44 <mchua> both Sunday and Monday
19:13:48 <spevack> * Upgrade to 1.2
19:13:55 <mchua> mmcgrath: I'll poke in at the end of each day to see where you're at
19:16:17 * mchua notes we'll also have Sparks and ke4qqq and possibly Dale and others on IRC as we sprint
19:16:21 <mchua> This project has a tremendous amount of inter-team coordination that's needed.
19:16:38 <mchua> pagemaster is going to give us a lot of flexibility (zikula module)
19:16:39 <spevack> Workflow == contributors, editors, administrators
19:17:03 <mchua> itbegins will be walking people through the admin interface.
19:19:21 <mchua> Simon's slide #10 has a host of useful links with references on zikula and its deployment status (tickets, etc) within Fedora, see slide directly
19:19:25 <mchua> oh hey quaid !
19:19:38 <mchua> Simon is now giving a demo of zikula.
19:19:44 <mchua> mmcgrath: what is our multimedia plan?
19:20:00 <mchua> mmcI have storage but how do we manage it
19:20:08 <quaid> hey mchua
19:20:11 <mchua> itbegins: there are modules
19:20:21 <mchua> er, that 19:16:50 line is mmcgrath:
19:21:03 <mchua> mizmo: is there anything to implement the events page, which right now is a thing I hacked together?
19:21:20 <mchua> itbegins: yes, hard-coding of images == :(
19:21:43 <warthog9> join #fudcon-room-3
19:22:03 <spevack> mchua: you've taken over secretarial duties?  :)
19:22:08 <mchua> mizmo: right now all the controls for that are embedded... it would be great to have a form for what the date and time are
19:22:11 * mchua presumes this is to make it easy for people to submit events to the system
19:22:14 <mchua> spevack: can do
19:22:18 <mchua> spevack: I'll holler if I need backup
19:22:22 <spevack> mchua: you've already done it :)
19:22:28 <mchua> mmcgrath: the work you're taling about (to itbegins) is more about integration or design?
19:23:09 <mchua> itbegins: needs both
19:23:18 <mchua> mizmo: it's easier for me to work on something if someone else is also actively working on the other side of it
19:24:08 <mchua> #link http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/ - the page we're looking at now
19:24:29 <mchua> we're in the admin panel, which you won't be able to see unless you have the auth creds, but I'll try to describe
19:24:45 <mchua> now viewing the news articles list - the backend someone like pcalarco would use to manage the workflow of something like FWN
19:25:00 <mchua> there's a table of new articles with various statuses (author, date, approval, etc) next to each entry
19:25:27 <mchua> you can go into the entry and edit the article itself - it looks like a blog posting interface, with a title and a permalink, a drop-down for category, a box for text
19:25:42 * mchua notes that the textbox will hopefully be a wysiwyg soon, via xinha
19:26:06 <mchua> itbegins: if we institute forms we can make sure people submit properly formatted articles.
19:26:31 * mchua wonders what pascal is thinking
19:28:06 <mchua> pcalarco: right now we're doing workflow manually, on the wiki; we're hoping that zikula as a CMS will make this easier
19:28:57 <mchua> mmcgrath: we used to talk about news.fedoraproject.org, is that still around?
19:29:01 <mchua> stickster: insight is an umbrella for things like FWN, mktg deliverables
19:29:03 <mchua> spevack: news.fp.o is deprecated in favor of insight
19:29:05 <mchua> stickster: audience is people who are not (yet) part of the Fedora contributor community
19:29:13 <mchua> spevack: wants a editorial vision for this
19:29:27 <mchua> spevack: the most basic question is how much stuff do we want here in any given 24h
19:29:45 <mchua> mmcgrath: if we get 20 things written all at once it seems silly to realse them all simultaneously
19:29:50 <mchua> release
19:30:47 <mchua> mmcgrath: what did we learn from red hat magazine?
19:30:47 <mchua> spevack: it's hard to get good content
19:31:49 <mchua> spevack: there's plenty of energy that cn easily be converted into results around interviews, podcasts, etc
19:32:21 <mchua> spevack: i don't envision this turning on like lifehacker, 20 posts a day.
19:32:25 <mchua> itbegins: quality is more important than quantity
19:32:25 <mchua> spevack: we're under no pressure
19:33:12 <mchua> mmcgrath: one thing I know people will be confused about is - for instance, dan williams, when RH magazine came out he didn't know where he could put SELinux stuff. Should Dan's SELinux sandboxing content be on FI?
19:33:54 <mchua> mmcgrath: that article (on SELinux) could be valid for several years... whereas we'd have things like "an event!" which is relevant only for a short period of time, how do we delineate fresh from non-fresh content and how do we get people to it?
19:34:40 <mchua> mmcgrath: is there a way to track popular articles and do things with that list of articles?
19:34:43 <mchua> itbegins: yes
19:35:54 <mchua> pcalarco: can you have expiration dates for content?
19:35:55 <mchua> itbegins: yes
19:39:26 * mchua suggests splitting into 3 tracks - "get this into production" "design and implement a workflow" and "content finding safari"
19:39:33 <mchua> simon, pascal, and mel respecitvely
19:39:35 <mchua> respectively
19:39:38 * mchua can't type
19:40:06 * mchua would like to suggest 5min of brainstorm for these 3 lists
19:40:33 <spevack> pascal makes a point about content expiring, and being archived, moved off the site, or sticking around forever.
19:40:49 <spevack> pfrields notes that it would be possible to mark things as being obsoleted, but that we don't want to remove things
19:42:50 <mchua> what url?
19:42:55 <mchua> several with redirects
19:43:06 <mchua> insight.fp.o, fedorainsight.org, etc
19:43:44 <ricky> Canonical locations are nice too :-)
19:43:46 <mchua> stickster: late 2010/early 2011, if it's possible for zikula to be localized in a way that's compatible with what Fedora uses
19:43:53 <mchua> (transifex, also popular with other upstreams)
19:44:00 <mchua> that'd be a great i18n goal
19:44:11 <mchua> would this be capable of handling our overall website?
19:44:18 <mchua> is one question to ask.
19:44:39 <mchua> right now we maintain our website via git (the system ricky set up)
19:44:45 <mchua> it's elegant but it's hard to use if you're not a hacker
19:44:50 <mchua> a command line hacker, that is
19:45:52 <mchua> from the pov of someone like mizmo, who's developed a lot of the visual style...
19:46:13 <ricky> One tough thing about something like news is that passing around a ton of po files is a pain
19:46:13 <mchua> i wonder if a less tech-savvy person could help w that style
19:46:13 <mchua> that webadmin stuff
19:47:03 <ricky> One alternative model is to have a different workflow where translators can go through articles and manually translate/post them on the $language version of the page.  That's a new toolchain that they'd have to get used to though :-/
19:47:16 <mchua> spevack: can you relay ricky's comment? i'm transcribing
19:47:37 <mchua> mchua: how do we improve our ability to work with zikula as an upstream, right now we go through you for everything which doesn't scale
19:47:50 <mchua> itbegins: ke4qqq is joining the zikula comunity
19:47:54 <mchua> thanks spevack!
19:48:08 <mchua> ricky: so separate installs?
19:48:15 <mchua> ricky: sort of like wikipedia?
19:48:36 <ricky> Perhaps - I'm not sure what the "zikula way" is to do something like that
19:49:06 <mchua> itbegins: we haven't gotten to translating the interface yet, that's 1.2 (mchua not sure if I'm hearing this right)
19:49:32 <mchua> itbegins: i haven't had a chance to investigate exactly how this would work, but i can go to zikula and say 'how would this work'
19:50:12 <mchua> ricky: answer "we don't know either but itbegins can ask"
19:50:19 <jds2001> ricky: as for the canonical locations, these would be 301's i think
19:50:21 <mchua> spevack: what else did you want to cover, simon?
19:50:34 <mchua> itbegins: answering questions :)
19:50:58 <quaid> ricky: what about a zikula module to edit transifex directly :)
19:51:59 <mchua> stickster: is the content you store in zikula versioned?
19:52:00 <mchua> itbegins: yes, you can rollback
19:52:07 <ricky> I guess, but the PO files would still need to be stored somewhere and read in easily.  I guess it's kind of a file vs. database thing
19:59:48 <spevack> #endmeeting