14:40:52 <herlo> #startmeeting
14:40:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Jan 30 14:40:52 2011 UTC.  The chair is herlo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:40:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:07:02 <stickster> Need transcription here!
16:12:23 <jsmith-mobile> Ctrl-D to duplicate objects
16:12:31 <jsmith-mobile> Ctrl-G to group objects
16:12:44 <jsmith-mobile> 1 to go to 100% zoom
16:12:55 <jsmith-mobile> 5 to center canvas to fill the screen
16:13:05 <jsmith-mobile> +/- to zoom in and out
16:13:11 <herlo> #chair jsmith-mobile
16:13:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: herlo jsmith-mobile
16:13:34 <jsmith-mobile> PgUp/PgDn Move up and down in the stack (layers)
16:13:43 <jsmith-mobile> Home/End Move to the top or bottom of the stack
16:14:09 <jsmith-mobile> Use the aspect ratio lock
16:14:16 <jsmith-mobile> (the lock icon in toolbar)
16:14:36 <jsmith-mobile> Shift and Control are magical :-)
16:16:30 <jsmith-mobile> Using them when scaling fits to even ratios
16:16:51 <jsmith-mobile> Using Ctrl when rotating to snap to 15 degree intervals
16:17:08 <jsmith-mobile> Holding down shift when moving objects with the arrow keys moves them faster
16:18:45 <jsmith-mobile> Anything outside the canvas doesn't print, as is essentially used as a pasteboard
16:22:08 <jsmith-mobile> Inkscape remembers the last fill settings
16:22:21 <jsmith-mobile> Click on an object, and then click on the color you want to fill
16:22:30 <jsmith-mobile> Hold down shift and click on the color to change the stroke color
16:23:08 <jsmith-mobile> You can also do Object -> Fill and Stroke to bring up the dialog
16:23:25 <jsmith-mobile> Then use the tabs to select the fill, stroke paint, and stroke style
16:25:49 <jsmith-mobile> One common trick is to duplicate an object several times, and then use the "Align and Distribute" dialog to arrange them
16:27:07 <jsmith-mobile> When you create an object, look for the custom toolbar (right below the menus and toolbar) for that object
16:27:37 <jsmith-mobile> Use that toolbar to set height, width, corner radius, and other features of the object
16:29:55 <jsmith-mobile> Use "union" and "difference" between the paths to create more interesting shapes
16:33:52 <jsmith-mobile> (and remember to move objects up and down the stack to choose which cuts the other in the difference)
16:34:37 <jsmith-mobile> Hold down shift when resizing an object to have it grow from the middle instead of from an edge
16:40:06 <jsmith-mobile> Moving objects with the Alt key held down makes the movements more precise
16:41:28 <jsmith-mobile> Gtrl-G to group objects
16:41:43 <jsmith-mobile> Ctrl-Shift-G to ungroup
16:44:16 <jsmith-mobile> Instead of creating duplicates, use Alt-D to create a clone.
16:44:25 <jsmith-mobile> Change one object, and the clones all change as well
16:51:30 <jsmith-mobile> Inkscape uses .gpl palette files, just like GIMP and Agave
17:07:23 <Cerlyn> Anyone transcribing?
17:08:18 <zodbot> Cerlyn: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
17:10:32 <Cerlyn> Maria wants to continue talking about this at lunchtime after the next talk is over
17:10:40 <nb> #topic GIMP as a pro photo editing tool and Contribute with Knowledge / Mar�Leandro
17:10:47 <Cerlyn> Shows pictures on the screen from yesterday
17:11:04 <jsmith-mobile> "I like GIMP, because it's not Photoshop"
17:11:04 <Cerlyn> {Someone is recording this as a video presentation; look for it later}
17:11:52 <nb> #addchair cerlyn
17:12:20 <nb> #chair cerlyn
17:12:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: cerlyn herlo jsmith-mobile nb
17:12:22 <nb> #topic GIMP as a pro photo editing tool and Contribute with Knowledge / Mar�Leandro
17:14:04 <Cerlyn> Maria shows how to edit a raw photo (image dump of sensor data from a camera provided without compensation to any color space)
17:14:35 <Cerlyn> you can tweak them how you like when loading them; the default is "Automatic Balance"
17:14:55 <Cerlyn> She has several podcasts online on her blog about this
17:15:48 <Cerlyn> She shows the picture (of a baby) next to the toolbar in gimp
17:16:09 <Cerlyn> She wants to make the picture of the child smile
17:17:46 <Cerlyn> Filters/Distort/iWarp, use the move effect
17:18:30 <Cerlyn> She then grows the baby's ears to make it look like a Vulcan on Star Trek, and presses, OK
17:19:04 <Cerlyn> She also increased the size of the eyes; which someone notes is a common thing done to celebrity shots
17:20:06 <Cerlyn> another person notes guys are not that big to pictures as women, he tends to let people approve their edited pictures (shadows removed, etc.)  before putting them online
17:21:29 <Cerlyn> Maria then wants to discuss layers
17:22:12 <Cerlyn> some of them are made transparent so you can see things underneath
17:23:04 <Cerlyn> she then highlights the baby's eyes, cuts and pastes them to a new transparent layer o ntop
17:23:28 <Cerlyn> She then uses the Color/Colorize effect to give the baby green eyes
17:24:49 <Cerlyn> and then uses the eraser tool with a fuzzy edged circular brush to remove the skin overage from the original cut eye area on the transparent layer
17:25:03 <Cerlyn> Maria then wants to discuss erasing something without people knowing
17:26:25 <Cerlyn> Someone asks why they should shoot in RAW format on their camera instead of JPEG; Maria will discuss this at the end
17:26:40 <Cerlyn> She then loads a picture of someone with a blue pole behind her
17:28:12 <Cerlyn> She then will use the Stamp (Clone) tool
17:30:36 <Cerlyn> She clicks to select a region, and uses Ctrl-Click to select it, and then clicks in the area to replace
17:31:04 <Cerlyn> she attempts to position the clone source (which moves with the cursor) so that the shadow and light regions behind the pole are appropriately copied as well
17:31:19 <Cerlyn> She removes a blemish from the woman's face in a similar manner
17:33:56 <Cerlyn> The Healing Tool can be used to attempt to remove a blemish with a more complex algorithm than a pure clone
17:34:31 <Cerlyn> The Raw Studio application is then shown
17:36:49 <Cerlyn> she uses the Exposure setting to brighten an underexposed photo
17:37:15 <Cerlyn> And then tweaks its Contrast and Warmth/tint settings slightly
17:37:39 <Cerlyn> Warmth tends not to effect skintones while tint does
17:37:58 <Cerlyn> She now opens Darktable, another application
17:39:52 <jaafar> what was the name of the app before Darktable? I missed it. thx
17:40:06 <Cerlyn> jaafar: Raw Studio
17:40:13 <jaafar> Cerlyn: thank you
17:40:24 <Cerlyn> http://rawstudio.org/
17:41:09 <Cerlyn> She uses Darktable to add a vinette(?-trying to translate from Spanish onscreen) around the image, which frames it a bit with a dark oval frame
17:42:08 <Cerlyn> she then changes the skin tones in the image to make them orange overall, and then will tweak it in Gimp, which is more precise
17:42:15 <Cerlyn> Darktable = http://darktable.sourceforge.net/
17:43:59 <Cerlyn> she then makes the image black and white while loading the raw image in gimp
17:48:05 <Cerlyn> she paints a yellow color over the baby's face, and sets the top layer to overlay mode to give it a different color
17:49:02 <Cerlyn> She adds a second overlay layer to make the pacifier on the baby's face blue
17:51:16 <Cerlyn> The presentation in basically over; someone notes that RAW images tends to give you more room for tweaking errors, but do not do basic fixup of images which the camera normally does for you
17:53:33 <Cerlyn> Maria then reiterates that she wants to talk about community, teaching, and how to make things work in the courtyard at lunchtime
17:54:24 <Cerlyn> {End of talk}
17:57:30 * stickster settles in to check out the usability in UIs talk
17:58:17 <jaafar> My photog friends swear by "RAW".  jpeg etc. is lossy compression
17:58:57 <Cerlyn> jaafar: Yes but your eyes can tolerate a lot before noticing.  It's like the MP3s vs. audiophiles
18:00:07 <zodbot> Cerlyn: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
18:00:11 <Cerlyn> #topic Usability for UIs / Jef van Schendel
18:00:14 <extremetrek> Pro photogs can be a frightened bunch, they get one chance to capture a moment...RAW allows them the latitude to make small mistakes and still be able to recover the photos their clients are counting on
18:04:23 <Cerlyn> I tend to shoot JPEG with 80% (20% compressed) on the compression slider.  For most images I don't see a visible change until it's around 40-50% even if zoomed in
18:05:09 <Cerlyn> {Beginning of talk}
18:05:44 <Cerlyn> Going to talk about some design principles, etc.
18:06:00 <Cerlyn> who is Jef van Schendle (schendie on IRC) - Fedora Design team member
18:06:00 <nb> SMParrish ping
18:06:17 <Cerlyn> usablility is not ... dumbing things down for the noobs, removing features
18:06:34 <Cerlyn> aspects of usability: learnability, efficiency, memorability, errors, satisfaction
18:08:00 <Cerlyn> shows picture of a complex audio mixer/hardware piece, notes it could be very confusing to understand, but also could be easy to use to someone familiar to the interface
18:08:29 <Cerlyn> Shows picture of a vending machine for memory cards, a different expierence than buying from a store employee
18:09:01 <Cerlyn> vending machine gets way with just dropping the card in a bin, would be unhappy if a store did that with people
18:09:17 <stickster> Cycle of improvement: Evaluate -> Create -> Design -> Evaluate...
18:09:17 <Cerlyn> iterative design process, design, create, evaluate, repeat
18:09:56 <Cerlyn> deveoloper input into design and creation, user input and developer input into evaluation
18:10:08 <Cerlyn> One way to improve usability is testing
18:10:15 <Cerlyn> but won't talk about that right now
18:10:25 <Cerlyn> What can we do in advance in order to avoid errors later?
18:10:30 <Cerlyn> Use design as a visual langauge
18:11:12 <Cerlyn> For example, if you have a "next page" item, could add text saying to click "next page", or make it a button, or a hyperlink
18:12:03 <Cerlyn> shows picture of blurred TV remote control, notes even with blurred picture we could figure out where the power button is (top left)
18:12:32 <Cerlyn> notes things are often redundantly defined with graphics and icons (channel vs. volume control, etc.)
18:13:03 <Cerlyn> can tell browser, chat, etc., applications purely with pictures of just the base elements and common looks
18:13:22 <jaafar> would be nice to have more people in this session; UI is an underappreciated and very important discipline
18:13:44 <Cerlyn> Shows adobe reader error message with informative icon and "There were too many arguments" error message
18:14:33 <Cerlyn> Design principles
18:15:00 <Cerlyn> contrast: used to highlight things, but you should be subtle; don't have to make things bright red, etc.
18:15:43 <Cerlyn> shows image of train station side; uses contrast, size to indicate which is important to know and make easier to read
18:16:15 <Cerlyn> only used one shade of blue and white and color inversion of the same to make it easy to read
18:16:19 <stickster> Jef's making an interesting point about "getting closer" as an idiom for font sizes -- in other words, font sizes are a way to direct user attention
18:16:35 <stickster> jaafar++
18:17:12 <Cerlyn> Proximity can be used to tell you how things relate to each other
18:17:51 <Cerlyn> shows pictures of two sets of five shapes all near each other; one looks like a big group of five (middle item centered), one looks like a group of 3 and another of 2 below it
18:19:50 <Cerlyn> shows pictures of standard keyboards, caps lock position above numpad, or just a light next to the key
18:20:38 <Cerlyn> shows a vending machine keypad with the numbers 0-9 in two rows, two special keys below those, and the letter keys A-J going to the left and then under all of them
18:20:43 <Cerlyn> Whitespace used to keep elements apart
18:22:58 <Cerlyn> Alignment also improves readability
18:23:52 <Cerlyn> shows parking pay station with no alignment of anything, with 1. 2. 3. scattered to find things
18:24:06 <Cerlyn> suggests 1-2-3 top to bottom would have been easier to understand
18:24:27 <Cerlyn> simplicity - remove clutter and noise -- focus on what's important
18:25:46 <jaafar> Tufte's principle is "minimum ink".  I always liked that
18:26:45 <Cerlyn> Shows a vending machine with duplication of pictures with a sign that says "Choose here" pointing to the actual buttons
18:27:00 <nb> #topic Usability for UIs / Jef van Schendel
18:29:04 <Cerlyn> Shows meetbot log of a meeting with colors {meetbot being what is logging these chatrooms right now}
18:30:04 <Cerlyn> Modifies it so it is just black and white, and hides the timestamps more or less by making them a light gray
18:30:40 <Cerlyn> adds some whitespace between the timestamps and the chat log
18:32:05 <Cerlyn> makes actions appear large, seperates each major topic area by whitespace
18:32:25 <Cerlyn> makes actions a lighter color, but not as light as the timestamps
18:33:35 <Cerlyn> hasn't used color or different fonts yet; just whitespace and contrast
18:35:09 <Cerlyn> {presentation is over; Q&A}
18:35:37 <Cerlyn> Question asked about how much of the legacy interface should be carried for newer releases
18:36:03 <Cerlyn> It's noted that Microsoft Office(tm) just finally did a major overhaul of their legacy interfaces with the Ribbon
18:36:25 <Cerlyn> Firefox currently is getting complaints over their new interface work
18:40:22 <Cerlyn> Discuss parking meter interface again; note that some of that is due to design contraints
18:40:33 <Cerlyn> for instance bills/coins/etc. need bins to go into; change should come out
18:40:42 <Cerlyn> but they could have better aligned things up top still
18:40:51 <Cerlyn> {end of talk}
18:41:26 <Cerlyn> #topic FUDCon Tempe - January 29th-31st.
18:41:37 <Cerlyn> {Lunchtime}
21:24:40 <susmit> we are having hackfest on fedora-medical at fudcon-room-2, feel free to join.
22:39:05 <herlo> #endmeeting