22:11:20 <mchua> #startmeeting
22:11:20 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Dec  5 22:11:20 2009 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:11:20 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
22:11:34 <mchua> #chair sdziallas
22:11:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: mchua sdziallas
22:12:09 <mchua> #chair PBRobinson
22:12:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: PBRobinson mchua sdziallas
22:12:09 <quaid> audio coming loud and clear, thx
22:12:39 <quaid> hi!
22:13:12 <mchua> This is Diana Martin's presentation on open source anthropology.
22:13:21 <mchua> Sebastian, Peter, and I will be logging.
22:13:27 <mchua> #topic outline
22:13:35 <mchua> ho am I?
22:13:35 <mchua> Anthropology wut?
22:13:35 <mchua> Open anthro
22:13:35 <mchua> For/with vs. on
22:13:35 <mchua> Methodology
22:13:38 <mchua> Multi-channel
22:13:40 <mchua> Iterative
22:13:43 <mchua> Qual & Quant
22:13:45 <mchua> Why Fedora?Who am I?
22:13:48 <mchua> Anthropology wut?
22:13:51 <mchua> Open anthro
22:13:53 <mchua> For/with vs. on
22:13:55 <mchua> Methodology
22:13:58 <mchua> Multi-channel
22:14:01 <mchua> Iterative
22:14:03 <mchua> Qual & Quant
22:14:05 <mchua> erp. sorry.
22:14:08 <mchua> #topic outline, again
22:14:11 <mchua> Who am I?
22:14:13 <mchua> Anthropology wut?
22:14:16 <mchua> Open anthro
22:14:18 <mchua> For/with vs. on
22:14:21 <mchua> Methodology
22:14:23 <mchua> Multi-channel
22:14:26 <mchua> Iterative
22:14:28 <mchua> Qual & Quant
22:14:31 <mchua> Why Fedora?
22:14:33 <mchua> #topic who am I?
22:14:36 <mchua> I am an anthropology student. I study communities online and how they interact.
22:14:39 <mchua> Is this new? Yes and no. It's een goingon for 15-20 years.
22:15:10 <mchua> But the playing field today looks different from what it was even 3 years ago.
22:15:17 <mchua> #topic what is anthropology?
22:15:22 <mchua> The study of man.
22:15:24 <mchua> Why we do what we do.
22:15:31 <mchua> So what I'm trying to find out is why you do what you do - not for me, but for you.
22:15:42 <mchua> Help us understand ourselves.
22:15:52 <mchua> #topic open anthro
22:16:08 <mchua> What I'm doing is doing anthro for open source communities and being part of an open anthro movement.
22:16:17 <mchua> this is open access anthro - open access to journals.
22:16:30 <mchua> the methods I'm using as I'm doing my anthro process is also showing other anthropologists how to do this.
22:16:40 * mchua notes that Diana is doing anthro The Open Source Way!!!
22:17:06 <sdziallas> she's doing research for groups of people to help them solve problems
22:17:50 <sdziallas> not only research on us, but we're also able to influence the way the research takes.
22:18:10 <sdziallas> Diana is doing research WITH and FOR us - not ON us.
22:18:33 <sdziallas> mostly communicating through online channels
22:18:49 <sdziallas> #topic ways of communicating
22:18:56 <sdziallas> "TALK TO ME"
22:19:16 <heffer> she is NOT a fedora user!
22:19:18 <heffer> oh noes
22:19:38 <sdziallas> but a UI designer...
22:20:19 <Grahhhh> and wants to become immersed in our community.
22:20:38 <mchua> She's like Mo, except with more expensive software
22:20:38 <mchua> (...for now ;)
22:20:48 <mchua> What is the relationship between ethnography and anthropology?
22:20:51 <sdziallas> #topic anthropology vs ethnography
22:20:51 <mchua> ethnography is a methodology.
22:21:07 <mchua> I've been trained to be an instrument of observing and researching.
22:21:13 <mchua> #topic iterative
22:21:15 <sdziallas> researching and giving _back_ feedback is what counts
22:21:24 <sdziallas> doing an internet based project
22:21:35 <mchua> "how to sustain maintain and grow the community" - short statement of what she's looking into.
22:21:43 <mchua> I want you guys to tell me what your problems are.
22:22:02 <mchua> I'm going to go to other open source communities and say "hey, here is what Fedora is doing, it works well, you might want to do it too."
22:22:06 * mchua goes FIRST!
22:22:20 * herlo points out this room is being streamed - http://asterisk1.fedoraproject.org:8000/fudcon1.ogg.m3u
22:22:36 <mchua> I went to sessions today and was impressed by the discussions, the give and take
22:22:41 <mchua> #topic qual vs quan
22:22:50 <mchua> As an anthropologist, my focus is on qualitative research.
22:23:07 <mchua> I've been taking notes all day today on participating in things.
22:24:01 <sdziallas> she's interviewing a number of people, and gets results for a bunch of more people; but also tries to be as objective as possible
22:24:39 <sdziallas> is happy to have had people getting her started in those communities she's going to help it.
22:24:46 <sdziallas> #topic why FEDORA?
22:24:54 <sdziallas> wants to do research that helps people
22:25:15 <sdziallas> (non-profit aspect)
22:25:44 <sdziallas> contact to RH, got a dialogue off the ground
22:25:56 * mchua notes that research takes a long time to do - she started this convo in Jan, and just now started being able to talk to Fedora people.
22:26:04 <mchua> sdziallas: you transcribe question-answers, I'll transcribe Diana.
22:26:05 <sdziallas> Q: what areas are you exploring atm?
22:26:13 <sdziallas> mchua: there you go!
22:26:35 <mchua> example questoins:
22:26:38 <mchua> what's the turnover like?
22:26:41 <mchua> why do people leave?
22:26:44 <mchua> why do they join?
22:26:58 <mchua> how does the scholarship for high school students work?
22:27:18 <mchua> I havne't been approved for IRB yet (research board that gives you permission to do your study)
22:27:30 <sdziallas> A: evaluating stuff like "err, actually, why are you CODING in your lunch break??"
22:27:38 <mchua> what's the methodology you use to collaborate online?
22:27:48 <mchua> why do you do it?
22:27:51 <sdziallas> A: communication online, e.g. over different time zones
22:27:52 <mchua> what do you like/dislike about it?
22:28:03 <mchua> it's open-ended.
22:28:08 <mchua> so you can guide the questions I ask.
22:28:41 <mchua> if we notice repeating patterns, then we start paying attention to those patterns.
22:28:57 <mchua> so far mostly individuals.
22:29:01 <sdziallas> Q: have you been working with any fedora groups or more with individuals?
22:29:04 <mchua> given my background in design, probably design team.
22:29:09 <sdziallas> mchua: already knows the answer :)
22:29:25 * quaid isn't sure in listening so far that "why Fedora" was answered other than serendipity
22:29:42 <mchua> quaid: how would you like the question asked again?
22:30:18 <mchua> it's explorative, so I don't have a beginning or an end
22:30:25 <mchua> but there will be a time where I'll have to narrow the scope down.
22:30:39 <mchua> The cool thing is that I can come back whenever and say hey, this  is what I found out.
22:30:59 <quaid> "Would any sizeable FLOSS community have worked for you? Was there any other reason than a serendipitous relationship with Red Hat for choosing Fedora?"
22:31:08 <mchua> I've worked at a wide variety of corporations and government offices, lots of variety
22:31:11 <mchua> quaid: I'll relay
22:31:16 <sdziallas> she's a _gamer_
22:31:21 <mchua> I'm one of the first people to do a study on world of warcraft
22:31:24 <quaid> which I think helps us understand how useful it all is to Fedora and how useful it is to the wider world
22:31:32 <sdziallas> (that's a windows game, mind ya! :p)
22:31:44 <mchua> sdziallas: I blieeve it runs on Linux under wine.
22:32:16 <sdziallas> she's a personal blog
22:32:29 <sdziallas> TRANSPARENCY!
22:32:43 <sdziallas> she's trying to keep things as transparent as possible
22:33:03 <sdziallas> reports only on a group basis, to keep sure privacy is preserved
22:33:10 <quaid> http://www.cyber-anthro.com/
22:33:42 * mchua asks quaid's question
22:33:51 <mchua> A: perhaps they would have
22:34:05 <mchua> I don't know to the extent there - especially since I don't know how this works, how contributing to a project works
22:34:21 <mchua> I didn't see that in other communities when I did research on them
22:34:33 <mchua> I didn't want to do only one particular person
22:34:43 * mchua missed greg's q
22:34:55 <sdziallas> I think it was:
22:35:03 <sdziallas> "how do you identify whom you talk to?"
22:35:07 <heffer> How do you identify who you are talking to?
22:35:14 <heffer> right :D
22:35:18 <sdziallas> heffer: ;)
22:35:23 <mchua> Q: how can we learn to do what you are doing?
22:35:31 <mchua> A: I can certainly scale what I'm doing
22:35:37 <mchua> this is part of open anthro
22:35:42 <mchua> how are people going to use the results of the study?
22:35:59 <mchua> the anthropologist's dilemna: when something is published, is tihs going to be used for the betterment of society? or not?
22:36:18 <sdziallas> #topic Q & A
22:36:22 <mchua> But I'm going to share it
22:36:31 * sdziallas changed the topic too late
22:36:37 <mchua> I'm a little worried about how this might be misused, but I'm going to do it anyway
22:36:41 <mchua> (paraphrased)
22:36:50 <sdziallas> Q: what's the initial difference between Fedora & Microsoft
22:36:51 * mchua missed that too - sdziallas, taking a break
22:37:28 <quaid> "I didn't want to do it on one particular portion" of a community, not a siloed community
22:37:34 <sdziallas> didn't do any research for microsoft, just talked to work stuff out, but turned the microsoft job down to work on a more open source project
22:37:37 <sdziallas> s/project/company
22:38:28 <sdziallas> interesting aspect of free software compared to commercial ones
22:38:32 <sdziallas> uses a MAAAAAC!!!
22:39:00 <sdziallas> started with slackware...
22:39:51 <sdziallas> ...wonders about the installation process how it currently is (example of adobe air installation)
22:40:50 <sdziallas> #topic resume
22:41:38 <mchua> whoa, I'm so glad she's going to be at the zikula hackfest tomorrow
22:41:43 <sdziallas> used to develop software, not anymore. calls her job "common sense"
22:41:50 <mchua> she developed a php-based db-backed CMS. I mean. that's EXACTLY what we're doing.
22:42:01 <mchua> AND she knows design and is going to do CSS magic. \o/
22:42:08 * sdziallas hopes zikula's not going to conflict with sugar & fedora mini
22:42:19 * mchua repeats "thank you diana!" a few dozen times for good measure
22:42:34 <sdziallas> Q: what sorts of insights have you found into open source?
22:42:46 <sdziallas> A: trying to get into open source communities first, then going to ask questions
22:43:01 <mchua> but if I came out of the gate asking questions, you might go "who are you, why are you asking this?"
22:43:30 <mchua> I've done a big literature review on what other people have written on open source communities
22:44:06 <sdziallas> has read cathedral & bazaar
22:44:14 <mchua> I started with ESR.
22:44:32 <mchua> He hasn't updated CatB.
22:45:03 <mchua> The homesteading the noosphere piece that ESR wrote also espouses the attitude that "esr's point of view is right"
22:45:07 <heffer> *** Reminder from stickster: sessions in this slot need to end at 5:50 -- we need to start in S1206 at 6 pm sharp, so we can get to FUDPub.
22:46:28 <mchua> mel: what do you notice with us right now?
22:46:32 <sdziallas> diana: there's a backchannel going on ;)
22:46:39 <mchua> but i was in the backchannel on other talks so I know that's what is happening
22:46:45 <mchua> that the typing means backchannel, not ignore
22:47:48 <mchua> Come to SXSW (south by southwest conference) with me!
22:48:21 <mchua> remy: is there 'open scientific research' for anthro?
22:48:37 <mchua> A: first, anthro is really diverse
22:49:02 <mchua> this particular area, not so much
22:49:09 <mchua> there is an open source anthropology movement
22:49:35 <mchua> in terms of licensing of anthropology papers (not necessarily anthro papers on open source, but anthro papers that are open-licensed)
22:50:59 <mchua> gotta wrap up, end talk starting soon
22:51:02 <mchua> *WILD APPLAUSE*
22:51:05 <mchua> #endmeeting