<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:25
!startmeeting EPEL (2024-05-15)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:32
!meetingname epel
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:36
!topic aloha
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:00:52
!hi
<@pgreco:fedora.im>
18:00:53
.hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:00:59
Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
<@pgreco:fedora.im>
18:01:02
!hi
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:01:03
... huh I wonder if the bot is down with the outage
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:01:06
Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:01:10
!hi
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
18:01:13
!hi
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:01:14
oh not its doing its thing. hello
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:01:16
Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:01:16
Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:01:18
Hmm ... I think Meetbot is having a bad day.
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:01:18
zodbot was taking a nap lol
<@pgreco:fedora.im>
18:01:20
wow, irc regression to .hi 🤦♂️
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:01:54
!startmeeting EPEL (2024-05-15)
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:01:57
Meeting already in progress
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:03:03
OK ... I didn't see that it started ... but let's assume it did, cuz Meet Bot thinks it is.
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:03:38
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:03:42
Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:03:44
!hi
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
18:03:45
maybe it's being shy today
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:03:48
Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:04:04
it's a wednesday, after all
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:04:31
i'm seeing all the hi responses in element web, just not the reply for starting the meeting
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:04:32
Hi Robby Callicotte Carl George Diego Herrera jonathanspw Pablo Greco Neil Hanlon ... wow, the list gets a bit big.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:05:06
morning
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:10
Hello Stephen J Smoogen
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:13
Morning nirik
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:05:17
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:05:20
Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:26
!topic End Of Life (EOL)
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:05:32
neochat is showing the zodbot replies
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:05:33
did you do two lines at once?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:05:35
Will be intermittent for a few mins until I finish lunch and can pop up the laptop
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:39
RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
https://endoflife.date/rhel
CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
https://endoflife.date/centos-stream
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:05:48
!startmeeting EPEL (2024-05-15)
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:05:52
Meeting already in progress
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:05:59
ok, it did, weird
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:06:07
Hi Michel Lind 🎩
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:06:39
Heya everyone
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:06:49
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:06:53
Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:07:16
A little over two weeks until epel8-next goes away.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:08:08
I just realized that nobody called me out for sending an email that says "Less than two weeks" ... I wonder if the internet is broken.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:08:44
I claim email bankruptcy
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:08:52
!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:08:58
https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:09:45
https://pagure.io/epel/issue/268
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:10:17
I got the pull request updated yesterday. I haven't heard any comments about it.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:10:47
i wish pagure made it easier to see previous revisions
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:11:01
Maybe Michel Lind 🎩 isn't the only one with email bankruptcy.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:11:02
i'm missing the context of what i previously replied to
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:11:37
iirc it was the previous revision said EPEL Packagers SIG didn't grant any additional permissions
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:11:45
I originally said
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:12:00
-EPEL Packagers SIG is a sub-project of EPEL. You do not need to
-be a member of the EPEL Packagers SIG to build packages on EPEL.
-
-Being a member of the EPEL Packagers SIG does not give you any
-extra permissions. It is not like Fedora's Proven Packager.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:12:32
EPEL Packagers SIG is a sub-project of EPEL. You do not need to
be a member of the EPEL Packagers SIG to build packages on EPEL.
Being a member of the EPEL Packagers SIG does not give you any
extra permissions. It is not like Fedora's Proven Packager.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:12:58
it's a rough work/conference travel season esp since elections are happening concurrently 😅
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:13:09
oh it looks like in this case the history is there, you did extra commits instead of amending the original commit
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:13:28
And you are correct, it is not a sub-project. And then I realized the third paragraph said pretty much what you were saying.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:13:36
same. that, and also a notification hub
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:13:48
we can bug Conan Kudo about it once pagure 6 is out
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:13:59
:P
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:14:02
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:14:06
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:14:13
Troy Dawson This copy looks good! Thank you for your work on it.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:14:15
i know some people are fond of pagure, but it just hasn't kept up with modern github/gitlab features
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:14:22
I think Neal's ears warm up everytime he got mentioned
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:14:31
must be nice in winter
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:14:32
Hi Conan Kudo
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:14:39
heh yes :)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:14:47
at least I don't sneeze whenever I'm mentioned
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:14:53
Troy Dawson: anyways, i believe the latest version of that pr addresses all of my concerns
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:14:54
haha
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:15:01
I like the new version
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:15:18
Sounds good.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:15:27
I sneeze in direct sunlight. I hear that's how the Air Force screen out combat pilots
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:16:05
the only nitpick i have would be to tweak "It also gets the package into the latest version of EPEL faster" to include "can help" to avoid implying it's automatic
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:16:30
i.e. "It can also help get the package into the latest version of EPEL faster"
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:17:30
should line 36 end with 'in EPEL' ?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:17:32
oh good call
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:17:43
(responding to Carl)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:18:25
or perhaps in EPEL branches... to make it distinct from just generally being a co-maintainer of the fedora package?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:18:28
nirik: Which is line 36?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:18:43
"You will be able to branch, build and work on those packages."
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:19:34
Ah ... so make that EPEL packages ...
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:20:06
yeah
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:20:29
OK, I've got both of those changed, anything else before I do another commit?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:21:01
i'll think of one more thing (tm) right after you push the commit 😛
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:21:15
ha
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:21:30
kidding, i think those last adjustments will get it in a good state
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:22:42
OK, let's consider that done.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:23:44
bad idea: ! nit <issue url>
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:24:24
Do we want to do the issue that started all this?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:24:38
suuu... re
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:24:45
https://pagure.io/epel/issue/267
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:25:43
I am no longer in the EPEL Packagers SIG, but I think Neil has been patient.
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:26:45
wait what? Did I miss something?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:27:04
Troy did comment a few weeks ago
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:27:14
and then say he was still getting notification emails, but it turns out it was not a bug :)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:27:45
jonathanspw: That might have gotten overlooked during the meetings, but I've gotten too much email as part of the SIG, and I found I wasn't doing anything SIG releated, so I stepped down.
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:28:01
Ahh I gotcha. It's def.....a lot of emails.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:28:09
we'll drag Troy back to help when EPEL 10 branches
<@pgreco:fedora.im>
18:28:24
also, Troy Dawson I think it doesn't do much for proven-packagers, right?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:28:37
Pablo Greco: it does in a bit
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:28:45
provenpackagers can't ask for new EPEL branches
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:28:48
As a proven packager, I cannot branch any packages owned by the SIG.
<@pgreco:fedora.im>
18:29:10
oh, interesting detail, didn't know PPs couldn't do that
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:29:17
But as as member of the KDE SIG, the vast majority of the packages I do care about, I can branch.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:29:22
but for packagers that don't care about EPEL we ask for the packager SIG to be added, so we only ask once and we can branch in the future
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:29:36
PP can't branch anything, just commit and build
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:30:02
so in the latest pr revision the criteria are as such:
- skilled package maintainer
- experienced in a wide variety of packages
- familiar with the packaging guidelines
- packaging for Fedora/EPEL for at least a year
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:30:36
I'm assuming votes are async until either enough people vote affirmative or negative, right?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:30:49
the first three are a bit subjective, but Neil Hanlon does meet the 4th one
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:31:52
personally, i'd like to see more epel updates from neil before confidently saying yes on the first two
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:32:06
I'd like to see more packaging work in general for people applying for EPEL SIG.
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:32:18
More packaging work = seen more things = better for EL* expectations
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:32:41
I ... would prefer to not decide on points 1 and 2 as Carl noted until Neil has a chance to fix the PRs he sent me :)
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:32:43
I tend to agree; looking at https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/userinfo?&userID=5402 there's only a handful of EPEL builds I see
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:32:46
I'm not sure if we could set an arbitrary number on it. I think it needs more specific definition but that's....hard.
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:32:54
(koji is _very_ slow today so totally possible I'm missing something)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:33:01
yeah the "wide variety" thing comes up during proven packager and package sponsor requests, i.e. a person focuses too much on one type of package
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:33:09
yeah. it does not have to be quantity, it can be quality. ideally both but it's a gut feel
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:33:25
i'm also against setting an exact number
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:33:55
Yeahhh. i owe you updates on them, sorry for the latency.. you know how it is.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:34:01
the danger with being too liberal in admitting people is... this is a new-ish program and we need to establish a reputation, or people will not grant us access to their packages which torpedoes the packager group's reason to exist
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:34:25
For my part, I am happy to withdraw my application and work on my packaging chops and make y'all feel more comfortable with it. That's ok.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:34:25
esp since often packagers don't set the rhbz assignee so they still get flooded with EPEL bugs they don't care about
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:34:51
30 complex package updates across a variety of types of packages would be more worthwhile to me than 100 simple updates for the same kind of package
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:35:40
Neil Hanlon: another thing i would suggest is doing more package reviews (i actually haven't checked how many you've done so far, but more will always help)
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:36:23
I think the one thing I will say is, I may not have koji history to my name; but packaging experience is not something I am lacking. I'm sure it goes without saying that packaging skills are undoubtedly required when composing an EL distribution; of which I am responsible for two.
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:36:38
(rocky + CIQ's LTS support for it)
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:37:18
yeah... package reviews, maintaining packages, co-maintaining packages and being actively involved with PRs/builds/etc are all good ways
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:37:21
I... think rebuilding definitely shows some experience with how to _build_ packages, but not necessarily how to write new ones
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:37:36
I certainly agree it's worth something
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:37:51
Frankly -- it's all the same thing.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:38:13
i agree with michel, while they are related skill sets, there are significant differences
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:39:14
I'm not saying they aren't different; but RPM packages are RPM packages. And I've seen _thousands_ of them. Hundreds intimately.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:39:26
I'm going to timebox this.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:39:47
It sounds like we have two no's, not at this time. Correct?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:40:20
according to the draft policy, voting should be in ticket right?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:40:42
quick clarification, is the voting all the steering committee, or just the sponsors of the epel packagers sig?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:40:46
Good point.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:41:12
i think we said before the sponsors, but my memory is hazy
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:41:33
trying to remember how provenpackagers do it
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:41:34
Please write your votes, and reasons for the votes, in the ticket. And I'm going to move on.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:41:42
also we need to sync up the actual sponsors with what we said in the last pr, i.e. add davide, neal, pablo, and michel
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:41:42
yeah, let's move on first
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:41:47
+ * Packagers SIG Sponsors vote in the EPEL ticket.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:42:03
Correct, it is only the sponsores.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:42:28
whoa, I'm not officially a sponsor yet in FAS? I restarted the SIG :)
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:42:47
ooops
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:43:49
oh i misread, you are
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:44:09
weird front end, being listed twice, as a sponsor and as a member
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:44:28
yeah
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:44:36
in ipa you can actually be a sponsor and not a member
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:44:46
I got confused by it too when sponsoring packagers
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:44:48
OK, moving on.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:44:55
!topic Old Business
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:45:25
I've gotten pinged by several people about epel10 ... how are we doing on setting it up in stage?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:45:32
mhayden had an old biz item
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:45:38
!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/epel-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/NBKDMUIVYDN6B3L3KRAJXMXWGYPADNIQ/
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:46:32
i can speak to the epel10 thing, which one do we want to cover first?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:46:42
OK ... but didn't that already get a +1 when it was brought up before?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:47:16
Whichever is quickest, do first. :)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:47:41
it's in the incompat process now, so it went to the list for discussion for a week, we just missed it last week
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:48:00
Ahh ... ok.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:48:12
so we're at item 4 on https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy-incompatible-upgrades/#process_for_incompatible_upgrades
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:48:22
or item 5
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:48:23
ah yes, I have another incompat process I need to finish (and then document the easier flow we agree on if compat packages are introduced)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:48:58
i'm +1 on botocore moving forward, along with the related packages
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:49:17
same, +1
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:49:21
I'm +1 on botocore moving forward as well.
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:49:28
+1 from me
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:49:36
+1
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:49:42
+1
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:49:57
+1
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:50:23
+1
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
18:50:31
+1
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:50:53
i know normally we have an epel issue to record incompat votes, but it looks like we don't require it and this one is just on list. are we ok just replying to the email with the vote result, or should we do an issue to keep it in the expected place?
<@pgreco:fedora.im>
18:50:53
+1
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:50:58
Looks like it's not only majority, but unanimous.
<@pgreco:fedora.im>
18:51:22
I hate incompatible updates, but most of the time they are the "least bad" option
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:51:57
Well, we don't actually say there HAS to be an issue. It's just what keeps it from getting forgotten, like we did last week.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:52:56
we could tweak the process to say "added to the agenda _by filing an epel issue and adding the meeting tag_"
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:54:40
OK, I like the working of that, and I've got my editor open, I'll have a pull request for that in a bit.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:54:48
time is short, so i'll consider this a yes and relay it to major, and file an issue to record the vote in
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:54:54
For now, reply in the email, since they were following the current proceedure.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:55:00
Correct.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:55:16
sounds good
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:55:47
nirik: Carl George So how is epel10 on stage going?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:56:34
had a issue with the initial sync script, james was working on that but he's out sick. once we have it synced into batcave i plan to set up the build targets in staging koji.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:57:05
Sounds good. I actually wasn't expecting too much more due to Summit and stuff.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:57:10
if anyone asks about epel10 status i would refer them to the hackmd i set up
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:57:24
URL?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:57:49
getting it now, hackmd seems to be running slowly today
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:58:02
!link https://hackmd.io/@carlwgeorge/S1r2tzZsp
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:58:12
While you get that, I'm going to move to Open Floor.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:58:19
!topic General Issues / Open Floor
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:58:22
good
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:58:34
Is there anything else that needs to come up before we close?
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:58:58
There was an issue with createrepo-1.0 and EL8 systems running pulp
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:59:02
is there a way to make that link accessible w/o login?
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:59:19
the fix is to use xz versus zstd compression
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:59:34
beyond that.. have a good week
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:59:46
Thanks Stephen J Smoogen
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:59:57
the createrepo issue killed my local koji rawhide nightly runs..
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:00:09
That was a real head scratcher ... I'm glad you figured it out.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
19:00:37
well...
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
19:00:38
because i'm still running c8s and rawhide switched to zstd last week.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
19:00:46
we are switching rawhide back
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
19:00:55
until 2024-06-30
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:00:55
done
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:01:04
fixed
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
19:01:09
?? my heart is in my throat!
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:01:15
we're out of time
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:01:16
at that point EL7 and EL8stream are dead
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
19:01:40
c8s is dead before then
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
19:02:03
nirik: do you have an idea on when that rollback will happen?
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:02:05
yeah but it will be really dead then
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
19:02:15
tomorrows rawhide...
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
19:02:24
ah ok
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:02:28
and no one in the world will be running it or EL7 at all
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:02:33
Thank you all for coming and participating. Thank you for the civil discussions. And expecially, thank you all for all the work you do for EPEL and it's community.
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
19:02:48
thanks Troy!
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:02:49
I'll talk to you next week, if not sooner.
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:02:52
smooge gave a cookie to tdawson. They now have 68 cookies, 4 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
19:02:54
Take care everyone! Appreciate y'all :)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:03:00
!endmeeting