2024-07-03 16:30:59 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !startmeeting fedora_coreos_meeting 2024-07-03 16:31:01 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-07-03 16:30:59 UTC 2024-07-03 16:31:01 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_coreos_meeting' 2024-07-03 16:31:08 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !topic roll call 2024-07-03 16:31:17 <@apiaseck:matrix.org> !hi 2024-07-03 16:31:19 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Adam Piasecki (c4rt0) - he / him / his 2024-07-03 16:32:10 <@hricky:fedora.im> !hi 2024-07-03 16:32:11 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his 2024-07-03 16:32:27 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !hi 2024-07-03 16:32:27 <@jmarrero:matrix.org> !hi 2024-07-03 16:32:28 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michael Armijo (marmijo) 2024-07-03 16:32:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Joseph Marrero (jmarrero) 2024-07-03 16:34:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> small crowd today, but i think we can at least go through the f41 changes 2024-07-03 16:34:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> let's wait a minute or two more 2024-07-03 16:34:56 <@siosm:matrix.org> !hi 2024-07-03 16:34:58 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Timothée Ravier (siosm) - he / him / his 2024-07-03 16:36:29 <@jlebon:fedora.im> ok, let's get started! 2024-07-03 16:36:37 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !topic Action items from last meeting 2024-07-03 16:36:43 <@jlebon:fedora.im> - jbtrystram to follow-up on `qed-firmware` removal 2024-07-03 16:36:57 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think this is resolved. we've added qed-firmware back 2024-07-03 16:37:11 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> .hi ravanelli 2024-07-03 16:37:26 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> !hi ravanelli 2024-07-03 16:37:27 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Renata Ravanelli (ravanelli) 2024-07-03 16:37:29 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !topic tracker: Fedora 41 changes considerations 2024-07-03 16:37:38 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1714 2024-07-03 16:37:38 <@jlebon:fedora.im> 2024-07-03 16:37:45 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we have a few more changes to look at 2024-07-03 16:38:01 <@marmijo:fedora.im> I reran the fedora changes script yesterday and there were no new additions since last week. 2024-07-03 16:38:20 <@jlebon:fedora.im> nice, was checking just that :) 2024-07-03 16:38:33 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i'll just run through it real quick 2024-07-03 16:38:52 <@jlebon:fedora.im> - Golang 1.23 2024-07-03 16:39:10 <@jlebon:fedora.im> will affect some packages, but should be transparent otherwise 2024-07-03 16:39:18 <@jlebon:fedora.im> - Removing network-scripts package 2024-07-03 16:40:00 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we haven't shipped that package for a while (possibly ever? don't quite recall) 2024-07-03 16:40:46 <@jlebon:fedora.im> - DNF and bootc in Image Mode Fedora variants 2024-07-03 16:41:02 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we are involved in this and this is already tracked separately 2024-07-03 16:41:11 <@jlebon:fedora.im> - Make Tuned the Default Power Profile Management Daemon 2024-07-03 16:42:26 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we don't ship tuned 2024-07-03 16:42:33 <@jlebon:fedora.im> - LLVM 19 2024-07-03 16:43:13 <@jlebon:fedora.im> not sure if any CoreOS packages use LLVM currently, but should be transparent if so 2024-07-03 16:43:20 <@jlebon:fedora.im> - Replace Redis with Valkey 2024-07-03 16:43:27 <@jlebon:fedora.im> FCOS doesn't ship either 2024-07-03 16:43:43 <@jlebon:fedora.im> - IBus Chewing for Traditional Chinese (Taiwan) Desktop by Default 2024-07-03 16:43:57 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we don't ship ibus 2024-07-03 16:44:09 <@jlebon:fedora.im> and that's all! 2024-07-03 16:44:27 <@marmijo:fedora.im> I'll update the list with those notes. thanks Jonathan Lebon 2024-07-03 16:44:35 <@jlebon:fedora.im> marmijo: thanks! 2024-07-03 16:44:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> We have https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ComposefsAtomicCoreOSIoT coming "soon" and it's already tracked on our side 2024-07-03 16:45:54 <@jlebon:fedora.im> the only other topic now is firewalld, but now we have travier but not dustymabe who is also very interested in this 2024-07-03 16:47:25 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier: should we discuss the composefs work since we don't have other large topics? 2024-07-03 16:47:42 <@siosm:matrix.org> works for me 2024-07-03 16:47:47 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !topic Complete composefs integration in Fedora CoreOS 2024-07-03 16:47:54 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1718 2024-07-03 16:48:45 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ComposefsAtomicCoreOSIoT 2024-07-03 16:49:12 <@siosm:matrix.org> We are looking at enabling composefs by default for Fedora 41. 2024-07-03 16:49:26 <@jlebon:fedora.im> so i think it's worth discussing how we'll roll this out exactly 2024-07-03 16:50:11 <@siosm:matrix.org> I was thinking enabling it in the Rawhide stream, then branched, beta, etc 2024-07-03 16:50:21 <@siosm:matrix.org> Do you expect any issues? 2024-07-03 16:50:32 <@jlebon:fedora.im> thinking more about once this gets to production 2024-07-03 16:51:15 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think we should migrate existing nodes, but maybe we can do a phased rollout where at first we don't migrate and wait a few months 2024-07-03 16:51:21 <@siosm:matrix.org> Note that this initial support does not enable a full integrity chain in that it does not chain the integrity guarantee from a UKI/Secure Boot 2024-07-03 16:51:54 <@siosm:matrix.org> That's not possible with the way it's planned to be enabled 2024-07-03 16:52:00 <@jlebon:fedora.im> so e.g. it would hit stable together with f41 but for new installs only. and then in e.g. 3 months, we add a barrier to migrate them 2024-07-03 16:52:17 <@siosm:matrix.org> https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/base-images/-/blob/main/tier-0/ostree.yaml?ref_type=heads#L14 2024-07-03 16:52:57 <@jlebon:fedora.im> ahh right, forgot about that detail 2024-07-03 16:53:16 <@siosm:matrix.org> https://ostreedev.github.io/ostree/composefs/#composefs > we can use the repo option however if we want to do that 2024-07-03 16:53:43 <@siosm:matrix.org> but I vaguely remember Colin saying that we should not 2024-07-03 16:54:02 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yeah, not sure if those docs are fully up to date 2024-07-03 16:54:06 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> 1hui 2024-07-03 16:54:08 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !hi 2024-07-03 16:54:09 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jean-Baptiste Trystram (jbtrystram) - he / him / his 2024-07-03 16:55:07 <@jlebon:fedora.im> hmm OK, i think that's fine but we'll want to message this as soon as it hits next. we know at least one case that will not work (toplevel mount points) 2024-07-03 16:55:46 <@siosm:matrix.org> I think we should redirect users of top level mount points to `rpm-ostree usroverlay` for now 2024-07-03 16:55:59 <@siosm:matrix.org> ah no, that's only for `/usr` 2024-07-03 16:56:20 <@jlebon:fedora.im> they could mount an overlay on / themselves i guess 2024-07-03 16:56:29 <@siosm:matrix.org> that's trickier 2024-07-03 16:56:45 <@jlebon:fedora.im> that'd be closer to the root overlay feature in ostree 2024-07-03 16:57:05 <@jlebon:fedora.im> https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree/pull/3114 2024-07-03 16:57:16 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> right now there is still a kdump issue with composeFS enabled 2024-07-03 16:57:39 <@jlebon:fedora.im> but that's a *huge* delta of course 2024-07-03 16:58:59 <@siosm:matrix.org> yep, we'll have to investigate that one, but I don't think it's a fundamental incompatibility 2024-07-03 16:59:14 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think i'd be more comfortable if it'd hit stable for new installs only and only later we migrate older hosts, but we have to evaluate how to do this without too much complexity 2024-07-03 16:59:35 <@jlebon:fedora.im> AFAIK, this will be the first time composefs hits a large install base (right?) 2024-07-03 17:00:01 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> yeah probably 2024-07-03 17:00:52 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> Because in fedora you hit the `ostree-grub2` issue 2024-07-03 17:01:16 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier, jbtrystram: maybe let's bring this up in the next bootc community meeting and see what folks there think 2024-07-03 17:01:21 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> the only people enabling this would have done it manually 2024-07-03 17:01:45 <@siosm:matrix.org> works for me 2024-07-03 17:02:11 <@siosm:matrix.org> I'm looking at enabling it only for the Atomic Desktops container images for F41, so Universal Blue users will get it 2024-07-03 17:02:21 <@siosm:matrix.org> but not the classic ostree ones 2024-07-03 17:03:02 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: what do you mean by `huge delta` for the transient overlay on `/` ? 2024-07-03 17:04:07 <@siosm:matrix.org> the root.transient option in ostree has a lot of implications 2024-07-03 17:04:12 <@jlebon:fedora.im> jbtrystram: it makes everything writable, which is ironically in the opposite direction from where we are and where composefs takes us (locking things down even more) 2024-07-03 17:05:04 <@jlebon:fedora.im> it's useful when you need it, but it changes the semantics entirely 2024-07-03 17:05:12 <@siosm:matrix.org> I wonder how this option interacts with composefs 2024-07-03 17:05:57 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier: it's basically a rw overlay on top of composefs 2024-07-03 17:06:12 <@siosm:matrix.org> OK, so full RW 2024-07-03 17:06:27 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yup 2024-07-03 17:06:33 <@siosm:matrix.org> yeah, that's a big change 2024-07-03 17:07:20 <@jlebon:fedora.im> for most toplevel mountpoints, the alternative is to create them in a container build. though some like podman may not be able to do that if they're dynamically named 2024-07-03 17:07:24 <@siosm:matrix.org> Podman machine will have to disable composefs however 2024-07-03 17:07:36 <@siosm:matrix.org> yep 2024-07-03 17:08:16 <@jlebon:fedora.im> longer-term we definitely need a solution there 2024-07-03 17:08:31 <@jlebon:fedora.im> ok cool, we can move on 2024-07-03 17:08:55 <@siosm:matrix.org> arbitrary top level mount points on RO / feels impossible 2024-07-03 17:09:44 <@siosm:matrix.org> outside of the turn off everything and make it fully RW option of transient 2024-07-03 17:10:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> let's bring that up in the bootc community meeting. 2024-07-03 17:10:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i guess you could have the initrd do a rw overlay, create the mountpoints, then remount the overlay ro 2024-07-03 17:10:13 <@siosm:matrix.org> Maybe we can make something like sys-ext? 2024-07-03 17:10:48 <@siosm:matrix.org> but that's not good for runtime mount points 2024-07-03 17:11:02 <@siosm:matrix.org> (initrd option) but that's not good for runtime mount points 2024-07-03 17:13:05 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier: doesn't podman know what mountpoints it needs at machine boot time? 2024-07-03 17:13:07 <@siosm:matrix.org> If we want to talk about that in the next bootc meeting then we should file an issue on the tracker 2024-07-03 17:13:18 <@siosm:matrix.org> no it does not AFAIK 2024-07-03 17:13:26 <@siosm:matrix.org> it's "user controlled" 2024-07-03 17:14:01 <@siosm:matrix.org> we would have to ask Brent 2024-07-03 17:14:02 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> is there an issue with some more context on that ? I want to understand why people need to have dynamic mountpoints on / 2024-07-03 17:14:17 <@jlebon:fedora.im> gotcha. i guess it might work to remount rw in a private namespace to create it 2024-07-03 17:14:56 <@jlebon:fedora.im> jbtrystram: i'm not sure if there's a dedicated issue for this (yet) 2024-07-03 17:15:00 <@siosm:matrix.org> indeed, sneak a layer with the folder and switch_root 2024-07-03 17:15:11 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> https://github.com/coreos/rpm-ostree/issues/337 2024-07-03 17:15:52 <@jlebon:fedora.im> that's the generic issue for toplevel mounts. we should probably have one for the podman case 2024-07-03 17:16:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> ok, let's switch to open floor? 2024-07-03 17:16:55 <@siosm:matrix.org> 👍️ 2024-07-03 17:16:58 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor 2024-07-03 17:17:16 <@jlebon:fedora.im> anything anyone wants to bring up? 2024-07-03 17:20:30 <@jlebon:fedora.im> will end meeting in 60s 2024-07-03 17:20:39 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/26 2024-07-03 17:20:42 <@siosm:matrix.org> I filed an issue 2024-07-03 17:21:20 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> thanks for running Jonathan Lebon ! 2024-07-03 17:21:32 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !endmeeting