2024-08-01 16:01:20 <@james:fedora.im> !startmeeting fpc
2024-08-01 16:01:21 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-08-01 16:01:20 UTC
2024-08-01 16:01:21 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fpc'
2024-08-01 16:01:24 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2024-08-01 16:01:49 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Hey.
2024-08-01 16:01:59 <@james:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-01 16:02:00 <@zodbot:fedora.im> James Antill (james)
2024-08-01 16:02:13 <@limb:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-01 16:02:14 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Gwyn Ciesla (limb) - she / her / hers
2024-08-01 16:02:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-08-01 16:02:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-08-01 16:02:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-08-01 16:02:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-08-01 16:03:18 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> hey 👋🏼 just wanted to let you know, I just got home from the dentist and am barely functional with pain killers, so I'll skip this one unless you need me specifically 
2024-08-01 16:03:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-01 16:03:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-08-01 16:03:57 <@james:fedora.im> We already have 5, so go lie down. :)
2024-08-01 16:04:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh interesting, do you get the checkmark if you're one of the chairs? that helps counts attendance
2024-08-01 16:04:22 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh
2024-08-01 16:05:25 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-08-01 16:05:27 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-08-01 16:05:29 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> gonna be double dipping with the infra meeting going on right now, wish me luck
2024-08-01 16:05:35 <@james:fedora.im> The old bot used to have a chair command, the checkmark helps me now there isn't one.
2024-08-01 16:06:57 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-01 16:06:59 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)
2024-08-01 16:07:39 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR#1354 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1354
2024-08-01 16:07:53 <@james:fedora.im> I think we can just merge this ... any objections?
2024-08-01 16:08:23 <@limb:fedora.im> None from me.
2024-08-01 16:08:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> none from me
2024-08-01 16:09:36 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Not from me; I was +1 a long time ago.
2024-08-01 16:11:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the note about must not owning the directory makes sense as well
2024-08-01 16:11:42 <@james:fedora.im> Okay.
2024-08-01 16:11:54 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR#1378 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1378
2024-08-01 16:12:12 <@james:fedora.im> Again, speak or I click merge soon :)
2024-08-01 16:12:30 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-01 16:12:50 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's weird we didn't have this page sooner
2024-08-01 16:12:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> unofficial +1
2024-08-01 16:12:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-01 16:12:58 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> but that's how docs go
2024-08-01 16:13:45 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I guess.
2024-08-01 16:14:22 <@tibbs:fedora.im> It's odd that it was already clearly indicated in the guidelines.
2024-08-01 16:14:38 <@limb:fedora.im> do it
2024-08-01 16:15:01 <@tibbs:fedora.im> But organizing this stuff is hard.
2024-08-01 16:16:36 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR#1379 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1379
2024-08-01 16:17:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this one is reasonable too
2024-08-01 16:17:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-01 16:17:34 <@james:fedora.im> Carl George: Did you want wording changes here before it gets merged?
2024-08-01 16:17:50 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> ideally yeah, seems miro agreed but hasn't made the tweak yet
2024-08-01 16:17:52 <@tibbs:fedora.im> From a grammar standpoint I have always preferred "build dependency" or "build-time dependency" over something like "build require", but it doesn't make much difference.
2024-08-01 16:18:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I would prefer not using the phrase "build require" and use "build-time dependency"
2024-08-01 16:18:26 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i like that, would further enforce that it doesn't have to be a literal `BuildRequires`
2024-08-01 16:18:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> in my experience, it confuses people :)
2024-08-01 16:18:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so making it a different phrase is clarifying
2024-08-01 16:18:45 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> we could also merge and i can send that tweak as a follow up
2024-08-01 16:19:46 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh, I'm not sure if it's easy to tweak it via. the web UI.
2024-08-01 16:20:10 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's also no rush if we want to just wait for miro to adjust it
2024-08-01 16:23:40 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR#1368 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1368
2024-08-01 16:23:52 <@james:fedora.im> I think we are maybe ready to merge this one too, now?
2024-08-01 16:25:53 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I think so.  The exceptions are going to be unsatisfying but dumb decisions far upstream don't give us much choice.
2024-08-01 16:29:16 <@james:fedora.im> Okay, I merged it ... let the complaints begin
2024-08-01 16:29:28 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR#1300 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1300
2024-08-01 16:30:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I agree with that rationale. +1
2024-08-01 16:30:39 <@james:fedora.im> I think this is fine, but I'm not sure ... I remember talking about how macros should be used for install'ing only, but I'm not sure if it was about this ticket or another one.
2024-08-01 16:31:20 <@james:fedora.im> The given benefit isn't really a thing in Fedora, but it still seems good.
2024-08-01 16:32:54 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> might be good to have a flatpak-focused individual like yselkowitz weigh in
2024-08-01 16:33:12 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-01 16:33:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we do have SCLized packages in Fedora too
2024-08-01 16:33:13 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Yaakov Selkowitz (yselkowitz)
2024-08-01 16:33:25 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> some of the compiler toolchain packages are like this
2024-08-01 16:34:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> look at the gdb spec if you want your eyes to bleed
2024-08-01 16:34:36 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> `Requires: %{_bindir}/foo` breaks flatpak builds all the time
2024-08-01 16:34:47 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> same for BRs btw
2024-08-01 16:35:24 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> so if i understand you correctly, we should keep the guideline, i.e. reject this pr to revert adding it
2024-08-01 16:36:03 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> imo we should get away from file dependencies entirely
2024-08-01 16:36:27 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that's a bigger conversation that the scope of this meeting, and the topic of whether to merge this or not
2024-08-01 16:36:39 <@james:fedora.im> I read it was don't use macros in any requires, so apply the revert.
2024-08-01 16:36:59 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> re-permitting installation path macros in file dependencies will make flatpaks harder
2024-08-01 16:37:21 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> I've been using the current policy to fix a lot of them
2024-08-01 16:38:00 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the current guidelines say using macros in path deps MUST NOT be used.  this pr removes that paragraph.
2024-08-01 16:39:02 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> wrt flatpaks I would ask that the current policy remain
2024-08-01 16:39:39 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> SCL macros I don't have a problem with, they're not relevant to flatpaks afaics
2024-08-01 16:39:54 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> but regular installation path macros are a big problem
2024-08-01 16:40:17 <@james:fedora.im> I'm confused now ... I thought the PR was to revert removing the MUST NOT.
2024-08-01 16:40:47 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the original commit added the MUST NOT https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/c/35d89f0f3ff118359f1fef1c328570a944e0ddf8
2024-08-01 16:40:50 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> yes, and I would urge you to reject the PR
2024-08-01 16:41:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> this pr proposes reverting that commit, removing the MUST NOT
2024-08-01 16:41:28 <@james:fedora.im> Damn it ... I thought you were agreeing and merged it. Going to have to revert the revert now.
2024-08-01 16:41:30 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> admittedly confusing with the double/triple negative parsing
2024-08-01 16:42:03 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I think this is going to require more extensive discussion that isn't going to be possible as a part of this meeting.
2024-08-01 16:42:18 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> why would you merge it while discussion is ongoing?!?
2024-08-01 16:43:44 <@tibbs:fedora.im> At the very least, any final guideline is going to have to include some discussion of why doing this kind of thing will cause problems for some systems.
2024-08-01 16:46:30 <@james:fedora.im> Maybe we could have more explanation? Seems like another issue/PR.
2024-08-01 16:46:30 <@james:fedora.im> I'll fix up the bad merge in an hour or so, unless someone wants to help me out. No need to discuss it, just re-propose the initial commit and merge referencing my comment in this PR . Sigh.
2024-08-01 16:46:30 <@james:fedora.im> 
2024-08-01 16:46:36 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor
2024-08-01 16:46:44 <@james:fedora.im> Anything else anyone has?
2024-08-01 16:50:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nope
2024-08-01 16:50:21 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Nothing from me.
2024-08-01 16:52:27 <@james:fedora.im> !endmeeting