#meeting-1:fedoraproject.org log

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:36

!startmeeting EPEL (2024-10-02)

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:37

Meeting started at 2024-10-09 18:00:36 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:37

The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-10-02)'

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:44

!topic aloha

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:00:44

!meetingname epel

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:44

The Meeting Name is now epel

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:01:17

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:01:18

Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:01:33

Hi Robby Callicotte

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:02:16

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:02:19

Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

18:02:53

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:02:54

Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:03:07

Hi Carl George and Diego Herrera

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:03:17

morning

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:03:23

Morning nirik

<@davide:cavalca.name>

18:03:46

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:03:48

Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:03:53

Hi Davide Cavalca

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:04:41

We seem a little light today ... there must be some conference going on somewhere in the world.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:21

!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:21

!link https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:31

We do have one open issue this week

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:44

!epel 296

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:05:45

● **Assignee:** Not Assigned

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:05:45

● **Last Updated:** 28 minutes ago

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:05:45

● **Opened:** a day ago by xavierb

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:05:45

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:05:45

**epel #296** (https://pagure.io/epel/issue/296):**Request to be added to epel-packagers-sig group**

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:06:27

I did a quick check on Xavier, and indeed it does check out. He's been doing epel packages since epel5.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:06:40

He's never been in the top 10, but he's been consistant.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:06:43

well, actually, no... nevermind.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:06:50

yeah we can vote in the meeting if enough sponsors are here, otherwise do a ticket vote

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:07:18

Well, neitehr nirik or myself are in the group anymore ...

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:07:29

right. ;)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:07:29

I'll put my findings in the ticket, and note that I cannot vote.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:07:49

reminder that the sponsors for this group are myself, Davide Cavalca, Jonathan Wright, Conan Kudo, and Michel Lind 🎩 🏖️ UTC-5 until Oct 18. *Not* doing any non-urgent work

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:08:46

oh whoops, i shouldn't have tagged michel with that vacation status, sorry about that

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:09:37

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:09:39

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:09:46

Hi Conan Kudo

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:10:06

I'm at XDC today :)

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:10:14

i'm +1 on adding xavier

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:10:55

sure, I'm fine with him +1

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:11:30

!hi

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:36

Hi Neil Hanlon

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:11:42

am late, got my times mixed up fixated at this hurricane..

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:12:02

(hope y'all are safe from this and the previous)

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:12:20

Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:12:48

re-reading on rules on the voting process, we need to leave it open for a full week before making it final i think

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:13:28

I believe you are right. Then ... we'll bring this up next week, unless those that can vote do all their voting in the issue.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:13:34

at least one +1 with no -1s over a week period is our criteria

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:14:02

yeah i guess i jumped the gun tagging it for this meeting, but at least it's a reminder for sponsors to go ticket vote. will record mine there as well.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:14:34

Not a problem. It got me to look through my stats and make an update on the issue.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:14:42

Moving on

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:15:04

!topic EPEL 10

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:15:19

Do we have any EPEL 10 items to discuss?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:15:56

the current focus is on what items we want to resolve before doing the official announcement

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:16:40

i opened a pr to expand the mock config in mock-core-configs last night. it needs a bit more work but we should be able to get that merged and released in time.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:16:41

Looks like we are at 2481 packages this week.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:17:00

(expand because right now it just has the koji local repo, not the mirrored repos)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:18:07

Carl George: Talking about that. We'll need to co-ordinate when we (CentOS Stream) change the containers to be just centos:stream10 instead of centos:stream10-development ... coordinate it with a mock-core-configs update.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:18:43

yup, i've got a note about following up on that as well. what's your current idea about the timing of that switch?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:18:59

How long does it take to make it through the whole config -> rpm -> in stable ?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:19:24

not sure, i think i've seen it happen fairly quickly before. the mock maintainers are pretty responsive.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:19:45

!link https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/pull/1484

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:19:57

OK. It's something I've got to co-ordinate with several groups, both internally and externally.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:20:32

I guess it doesn't actually break anything when we switch ... it's just that people won't be getting their containers updated.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:20:55

i would say the sooner the better, both for landing the pr i linked and for the container tag name switch (which will need another pr to the mock configs)

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:21:36

anyone using the stream10-development tag now should have the expectation that at some point they would need to switch it to the non-dev tag

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:21:42

OK, I'll talk to a few people about doing it sooner. I'll talk to you out of this meeting ... don't need meeting time to coordinate it.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:22:18

the other thing i'd like to land before the epel10 launch announcement is pr ci

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:22:22

!link https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/491

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:22:39

Carl George: But, thanks for doing the mock-core-configs that you did.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:22:48

of course

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:23:47

those are the two main things in my mind for us to do asap, and then right before the launch we'll need to make some bodhi adjustments like days to stable and automatic updates, and turn off the separate nightly compose to let bodhi compose things

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:23:54

Oh ya ... we were seeing that fail when we were working on epel-release ... yep, that would be good to get fixed.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:25:09

as a reminder, me and my team are tracking epel10.0 work items in a hackmd, and if anything unassigned in that doc interests you please let me know and we can put your name next to it

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:25:14

!link https://hackmd.io/@carlwgeorge/ry_xGk35C

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:25:45

I agree with your list, and can't think of anything to add.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:25:52

i.e. it doesn't have to be just the cpe epel team working on those items, happy to have non-cpe folks jump in like a few have already done

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:26:47

i think that covers it for the epel10 update, we can move on unless anyone has questions

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:26:59

I totally agree. Even if you don't have permissions, I'm quite certain that pull requests are great to get.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:27:13

Questions or comments from anyone?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:27:38

OK, moving on.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:27:46

!topic Old Business

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:27:59

Does anyone have any Old Business?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:28:33

With Smooge not here ... I don't have any Old Jokes either.

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:28:39

lol

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:29:24

on the untag thing i brought up before, i've had some success just bringing that up on a case-by-case basis in bugzilla. i.e. file bugs, and offer to untag if the maintainer doesn't think it can be resolved in a reasonable amount of time.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:29:43

on the uninstallable untagging thing i brought up before, i've had some success just bringing that up on a case-by-case basis in bugzilla. i.e. file bugs, and offer to untag if the maintainer doesn't think it can be resolved in a reasonable amount of time.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:29:51

Surprising, but nice.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:30:10

it makes sense, and is probably the better approach

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:30:31

like, just work it into a bug template for reporting uninstallables

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

18:30:50

that sounds reasonable :D

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:31:08

fedora has the luxury of the rapid cycle to say "this will get retired if you don't solve it in one cycle" or whatever, but our cycles are too long for that

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:31:17

Yep

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:33:00

at some point it will be a good project to merge willit into fedora's fti process with automatic bug filing, but too many other things going on at the moment to focus on that yet

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:33:19

Agree

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:33:56

until then, manual bugs are not that difficult at our scale

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:34:44

Ya, I like the idea of asking the maintainer if they think it will be possible to get it fix. For some, it might be they have to wait for two layers of dependencies to get fixed, for others, they might know right then it will never be installable.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:35:36

yeah sometimes its just "whoops i forgot to check that and need one more dep added", and other times it's "nope that's a huge dep chain, i changed my mind about this being in epel"

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:35:39

Do we have an issue open for that? Just so we can track it?

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:36:05

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:36:07

James Richardson (jrichardson)

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:36:09

Sorry Im late

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:36:51

like a meta-issue about the topic of uninstallable packages? i don't think so. well, there's the osci issue about enabling installability checks in bodhi, but that's like a detail of the overall problem and doesn't cover the ones that are already published.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:36:53

Hi James Richardson

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:38:21

Maybe it's time to do an issue about the uninstallable packages. The topic comes up about every 6 months or so, and other than us remembering, it's not really written down what we've discussed.

<@music:fedora.im>

18:38:23

I was one of those maintainers. I am 99% careful about installability checking, but I still missed one. I appreciated the bug *and* the untagging offer. The package wasn’t important enough to me to invest a ton of work into pushing on the missing dependencies.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:40:01

yup, and i appreciate your responsiveness and positive attitude on the bug

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:40:51

i'm definitely open to any feedback on the template (once we write it down somewhere) to phrase it in a helpful way, not so much pointing blame

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:41:10

yup, and i appreciate your responsiveness and positive attitude on that bug

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:41:39

will do, i'll write up an issue in our tracker

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:41:54

Thanks.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:42:01

Are we ok moving on?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:43:16

!topic General Issues / Open Floor

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:43:30

Does anyone have anything for an Open Floor?

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:43:30

I have something for open floor...

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:43:39

Robby Callicotte: go for it.

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:43:54

Blocking retired packages in koji was failing for epel tags... Toddlers did not have appropriate permissions.

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:44:07

!link https://pagure.io/releng/issue/12382

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:44:19

ouch

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:44:27

Did you open a releng ticket?

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:44:38

!link https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/pull-request/2297.

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:44:45

yes I did

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:45:08

Ha! :) ... I swear you haven't typed that link in when I asked. :)

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:45:21

lol

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:45:26

i think the theory is that the retirement used to run with admin and could do whatever it wanted, but once it was scoped down to pkglist perms we discovered the flaw in the hub policy

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:45:46

The PR was merged (thank you nirik and Carl George ). Now toddlers have permission to block packages in all epel tags.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:45:57

yep. thanks for the PR

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:46:07

have we verified the fix with an actual retirement yet?

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:46:20

not yet

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:46:22

i'm ok with "fixed in theory" and we'll figure it out later

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:47:06

Will that fix this old issue we have - https://pagure.io/epel/issue/208

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:47:53

in that issue things were getting blocked, just not removed from the repos, so it's separate

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:48:21

Ah, ok.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:48:25

if something is blocked, it should no longer appear in composes.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:49:06

They don't appear in composes. But there is some commands somewhere, where they are still listed.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:49:54

To me, not appearing in repos and composes are the main thing. Which is why I never thought that issue to high of a priority. But ... it's still in the back of my mind.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:49:56

ok. yeah, build should inherit from the base tag, so if things are operating on build they... shouldn't

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:50:34

i'll also note that right now the hub policy is hard coding the epel tags, but fedora has a nice templated system with ansible vars. we have some limited epel vars but they don't cover the minor versions yet, and we need to do some planning around how to best handle that. long term i'm optimistic we can have the hub policy templated for epel stuff to not need to update it every six months.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:51:05

That will be nice.

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:51:37

just needs a little jinja magic

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:52:23

Our time is getting short, Is there anything else for open floor?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:53:13

the centos showcase cfp closes in a week

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:53:21

!link https://cfp.fedoraproject.org/centos-showcase-2024-11/

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:53:49

i'll be submitting something about epel10, still working on the title

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:54:51

I wasn't planning on doing a "State of EPEL", unless someone specfically asks. But I do think that and epel10 talk fits, cuz it's currently for CentOS Stream.

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:55:20

Carl George: I can give you a hand with it if you want

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:56:07

we just did state of epel two months ago, probably a bit too soon to repeat it

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:56:32

granted i say that, and i also talked about epel10 at flock

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:56:44

Yep, that's what I was thinking. Save it for Connect.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:57:00

state of epel feels like it would be best as an annual thing

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:57:57

regardless, they'll be an epel10 talk to remind people "no really, we're launching this really soon"

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:59:14

I'm going to close things up. Thank you all for coming and the good discussions.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:59:25

And thank you all for all you do for EPEL and it's community.

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

18:59:37

bye y'all!

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:59:42

I'll talk to you next week, if not sooner.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:59:50

later yall

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

19:00:03

Stay safe all you SE US based folks

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:00:11

!endmeeting