#meeting-1:fedoraproject.org log

<@james:fedora.im>

17:00:02

!startmeeting fpc

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:03

Meeting started at 2024-11-21 17:00:02 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:03

The Meeting name is 'fpc'

<@james:fedora.im>

17:00:05

!topic Roll Call

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:00:13

Hey.

<@limb:fedora.im>

17:00:28

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:00:28

Gwyn Ciesla (limb) - she / her / hers

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:00:29

I have an office party in just a few minutes, so I will have to head out soon.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:00:35

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:00:37

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@james:fedora.im>

17:00:41

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:00:42

James Antill (james)

<@james:fedora.im>

17:01:16

Jason ティビツ: Nice, what is the party for?

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:01:38

Just a generic holiday party.

<@james:fedora.im>

17:01:52

Ahh, for thanksgiving?

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:02:26

I suppose. It's a university to we aren't supposed to have anything other than the most generic types of events.

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:02:54

I'm not an office party person myself so it's more if a "have to go" than a "want to go" thing for me.

<@james:fedora.im>

17:04:09

yeh, it's been a long time since I've been in an office much ... seemed like a weird time to have a party ... but then "everyone" loves a party ;)

<@james:fedora.im>

17:05:21

There's only 4 four of us at the moment ... did you want to talk about "#1380 Versioning: Add SCM-prefixed snapshot form" before you go?

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:06:04

All I can really say about that is that we should try to keep the list simple, but if something got lost in the migration from the wiki then we should probably put it back.

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:06:21

Problem is that I've mostly forgotten how to even check what used to be in the wiki.

<@james:fedora.im>

17:06:59

Yeh, apart from git history ... I don't know.

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:07:33

There is a way to see the old pages before deletion. Just something you stick on the end of the URL.

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:07:45

Then you have access to all of the wiki history.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:08:24

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:08:25

Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:08:36

sorry, errands ran late because it's snowing hard out there

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:09:21

We have plenty of packages that follow this form, it's used in other distributions, and it used to be something we did too... I don't think it's unreasonable to add it, and then come back later about revising our guidance here

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:09:50

actually, I think we're probably at the point we can retire the guidance about snapshot-in-release and start actively encouraging packages using this form to switch away

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:10:36

we mostly kept it around because of RHEL 7

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:10:43

https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Packaging:Versioning&oldid=487435

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:10:47

and now that's gone, we can start actively simplifying away that stuff

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

17:11:13

That's the last version of the versioning guidelines in the wiki for reference.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:11:14

most of the SIGs have switched anyway right? I think Golang's go2rpm moved to supporting it in version field a while ago

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:11:20

yup

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:11:35

the last stragglers are actually the forge macros and the kernel package

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:11:46

but forgeversion now exists for the forge macros

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:12:07

iirc gotmax fixed the forge macros ... that was tied to the Golang thing, they were heavily using it

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:12:09

the kernel package is... special

<@gotmax:matrix.org>

17:12:11

But it's broken on RHEL 10 and the maintainers ignore my bug reports

<@gotmax:matrix.org>

17:12:16

forgeversion, that is

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:12:18

oh sigh

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:12:47

Stream/RHEL seem a bit challenging to fix once they're branched from Fedora

<@gotmax:matrix.org>

17:12:59

It's one thing when they ignore bug reports we file for other software, but when they're shipping a broken version of code _I_ wrote...

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:13:02

but we can ship override in epel macros right

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:13:06

yes

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:13:11

nods

<@gotmax:matrix.org>

17:13:12

Yes, I'll probably end up doing that

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:13:30

I know how it feel, we have had packages pulled into RHEL and it's "oh by the way this is happening", not "do you think it's a good idea"

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:14:04

I've had this situation too as upstream, as principal developer, and as primary Fedora maintainer

<@gotmax:matrix.org>

17:14:17

I'll work on an override for EPEL 10. The code to install the files without conflicts is already there for epel9, so it won't be too much work.

<@gotmax:matrix.org>

17:14:26

Yup...

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:14:28

salimma has already given cookies to gotmax23 during the F41 timeframe

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:14:40

ngompa gave a cookie to gotmax23. They now have 39 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:14:57

There's not a lot we can do about it as non-Red Hatters, unfortunately.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:15:48

I was surprised they dropped rpmlint from RHEL though

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:16:03

I guess they don't expect RHEL folks to validate their packages as they develop them?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:16:06

wut

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:16:18

maybe theyre' all in on rpminspect?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:16:58

rpminspect isn't in RHEL either

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:17:06

oh dear

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:17:19

🤷‍♂️

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:17:23

maybe the secret is that RH is using a lot of EPEL internally

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:17:35

heh

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:17:40

and in a way keeping things there makes it easier to update, no navigating pesky ACGs

<@gotmax:matrix.org>

17:17:40

pyproject-rpm-macros does that, for example

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:18:14

in any case, can we just merge this PR and have a separate task to simplify the snapshot versioning docs?

<@james:fedora.im>

17:18:45

There's 5 of us, so if we all vote we can do anything ;)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:18:53

can someone send the link? 1380 right

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:19:06

yep: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1380

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:19:54

I'm +1 to merging it, obviously :)

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:20:11

hey - sorry, I lost track of time

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:20:19

so we're keeping the form without scm for now?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:20:49

if the objection from Carl previously is that there are too many forms, I personally would rather the line 3 (number.revision) to be excised :)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:21:19

yes, I think we can do that in a followup

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:21:53

I think it's important that snapshot versioning should maintain vcs name and snapshot date at the minimum

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:22:19

one thing I noticed (not part of this PR) is we never explained what number should be either

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:22:37

I initially thought it's just going to be the same as revision, but there's number followed by revision...

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:22:48

yeah, I think this number has been used in various ways because it is different based on the SCM

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:23:03

yeah but "`+<revision>+` is either a short git commit hash, a subversion revision number,

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:23:03

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:23:03

or something else useful in identifying the precise revision"

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:23:08

e.g. mercurial has both a revlog number and a shorthash

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:23:13

<@james:fedora.im>

17:23:16

Fabio Valentini 🤒: No problem, we are just discussing versioning for the 666th time ;)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:23:26

right so for mercurial you can list both the number and the hash

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:23:49

at some point we might be better off just writing this in regex form :P

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:23:54

lol

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:24:16

can we actually just provide a couple of examples for each VCS? that will clarify what these things are

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:24:20

yeah

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:24:25

I think that's reasonable to do

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:24:28

right now I don't even see an example for svn, forget about hg

<@james:fedora.im>

17:24:50

Do people still use SVN?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:24:51

yeah I have a couple of these I can reference for cvs, svn, hg, git, and bzr

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:25:09

so the question (for me) is merge now or merge after we have concrete examples

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:25:14

James Antill: well... Kevin Kofler manages his projects with SVN :)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:25:30

I'm ok voting to merge now provided there will be a follow up

<@limb:fedora.im>

17:25:41

That works for me.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:25:43

yeah and I'm happy to add examples in a followup PR

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:25:53

god knows we need them anyway

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:25:56

and yeah I guess we also have some BSD-derived packages? The ones I touched never needed snapshots but it is possible

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:26:03

yep

<@james:fedora.im>

17:26:06

I'm fine merging now if we agree it's better, and doesn't _need_ the followup ... even if the followup will make it better

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:26:15

openbsd stuff is still cvs

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:26:20

netbsd moved to hg

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:26:27

yeah. I think FreeBSD moved to git

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:26:29

or svn?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:26:31

yep

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:26:36

freebsd was svn->git

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:26:50

anyway. do we formally vote now?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:26:55

yup

<@james:fedora.im>

17:26:59

Sure

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:27:00

I already did +1

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:27:10

<@limb:fedora.im>

17:27:18

<@james:fedora.im>

17:27:25

+1 (it's only two lines ;)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:27:27

let's not keep James from his party :)

<@james:fedora.im>

17:27:43

That was tibbs ... I'm at a party of one.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:27:46

oh, Jason I mean... and he's already gone

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:27:51

I'm a party of zero :P

<@james:fedora.im>

17:28:30

Conan Kudo: Some good timey whimey stuff going on there?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:28:38

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:28:49

most people would call me a buzzkill :P

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:28:58

I'm good with merging this now, followup bikeshedding can happen later

<@james:fedora.im>

17:29:15

Okay, I'm gonna take that as a +1 then

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:29:23

I'm good with merging this now, followup bikeshedding can happen later: +1

<@james:fedora.im>

17:32:11

https://imagecomics.com/comics/releases/buzzkill-tp ... seems highly rated.

<@james:fedora.im>

17:32:24

!topic Open Floor

<@james:fedora.im>

17:32:32

Anything anyone wants to talk about?

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:33:00

There's only a lot of stuff that I *don't* want to talk about

<@limb:fedora.im>

17:33:40

Oy. Same.

<@james:fedora.im>

17:34:10

That's what therapists are for

<@james:fedora.im>

17:37:33

more, like way more

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:37:50

and children of therapists too

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:37:59

absolutely

<@james:fedora.im>

17:38:47

Yeh, normalizing mental health is going to shift the needle a lot

<@james:fedora.im>

17:39:27

And on that note...

<@james:fedora.im>

17:40:01

!endmeeting