2024-12-05 17:00:46 <@james:fedora.im> !startmeeting fpc 2024-12-05 17:00:48 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-12-05 17:00:46 UTC 2024-12-05 17:00:48 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fpc' 2024-12-05 17:00:50 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call 2024-12-05 17:00:56 <@limb:fedora.im> !hi 2024-12-05 17:00:58 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Gwyn Ciesla (limb) - she / her / hers 2024-12-05 17:01:24 <@james:fedora.im> !hi 2024-12-05 17:01:25 <@zodbot:fedora.im> James Antill (james) 2024-12-05 17:02:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi 2024-12-05 17:02:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his 2024-12-05 17:04:40 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi 2024-12-05 17:04:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his 2024-12-05 17:04:44 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Hey. 2024-12-05 17:06:49 <@james:fedora.im> Okay, that's five of us... 2024-12-05 17:07:12 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC 1415 - https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1415 2024-12-05 17:08:56 <@james:fedora.im> Saw this go past in infra. places, and figured we should have something about it ... new forge might help some things, but they'll still be limits somewhere. 2024-12-05 17:09:07 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> hey o/ 2024-12-05 17:09:07 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> sorry, I won't be able to participate (much) today - have a pretty bad headache 2024-12-05 17:10:23 <@james:fedora.im> No problem, I know a bunch of people who've got colds in the last week. 2024-12-05 17:10:42 <@tibbs:fedora.im> The question is whether there just needs to be a note somewhere, or if we need to outright ban >64 character package names. 2024-12-05 17:10:46 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> yeah, basically everyone I know has been sick in the past 2-3 weeks 2024-12-05 17:10:50 <@limb:fedora.im> There's definately something going around. 2024-12-05 17:11:17 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I guess we can just go off of what releng suggests that we do. But it's dumb to change it and then change it back. 2024-12-05 17:11:27 <@limb:fedora.im> I feel like we should specify that limit, and increase later if possible. 2024-12-05 17:11:27 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> as I mentioned on the ticket - I think it's premature (or too late?) to make a rule now because of bugzilla 2024-12-05 17:12:01 <@limb:fedora.im> Maybe less a rule, and more a note that >64 won't work. 2024-12-05 17:12:19 <@james:fedora.im> Fabio Valentini: How fast do you think the transition from bugzilla will be? 2024-12-05 17:12:19 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> it might be a good idea so define a "soft limit" and warn packagers about really long names *somewhere* but I don't think bugzilla (which is on its way to a farm upstate) should dictate a hard limit (it's too late for that) 2024-12-05 17:12:46 <@limb:fedora.im> To what will we be moving from bugzilla? 2024-12-05 17:12:47 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> James Antill: there's apparently been a "Unified Decision" to move to Forgejo ;) 2024-12-05 17:13:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> Agreed, this should be an advisory thing - by the way we know this will break - and we shouldn't lock that design for eternity 2024-12-05 17:14:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi 2024-12-05 17:14:03 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his 2024-12-05 17:14:45 <@james:fedora.im> Fabio Valentini: Yeh, but I'm still not clear on the timeline ... might be 2025, but I wouldn't bet a lot on it. 2024-12-05 17:14:53 <@james:fedora.im> Esp. on the bugzilla part. 2024-12-05 17:15:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey 2024-12-05 17:15:42 <@james:fedora.im> I believe that's Conan Kudo 's line ;) 2024-12-05 17:15:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> :D 2024-12-05 17:15:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> As long as we don't get into a mailing list vs discourse split 2024-12-05 17:15:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> tbh, I don't expect particular progress on that until 2026 at least 2024-12-05 17:16:12 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> hey, I know my Doctor Who too 2024-12-05 17:16:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> Who? 2024-12-05 17:16:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> Kidding 2024-12-05 17:16:45 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> From what I hear there qa team has concerns around forgejo issue tracking, and one suggestion was we disconnect moving dist-git from moving bugs (i.e. keep bugs in bugzilla longer) 2024-12-05 17:16:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I was going to be so disappointed if you didn't know :P 2024-12-05 17:17:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I share those concerns as well 2024-12-05 17:17:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> Proposal: Add a warning for source package name >64 characters to the Package Review guidelines and / or fedora-review. 2024-12-05 17:17:40 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I have no doubt we will spend a huge amount of effort to move forges an still not get what we have with pagure. 2024-12-05 17:18:33 <@tibbs:fedora.im> +1 to adding some note somewhere. 2024-12-05 17:19:32 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> maybe *bonk*ing go2rpm too, it seems to be the main culprit in making really long package names. 2024-12-05 17:19:35 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> I like this because a limit of the tooling would be noted in other tooling, versus policy 2024-12-05 17:20:37 <@james:fedora.im> To be fair, the original infra. ticket (https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/12167) has notes to change go2rpm and fedora-review ... great minds think alike ;) 2024-12-05 17:20:55 <@james:fedora.im> I just figured we should have something in policy for when someone asks/complains 2024-12-05 17:21:08 <@tibbs:fedora.im> You will find that a whole bunch of the packaging guidelines are exactly related to limits of the tooling (specifically RPM). 2024-12-05 17:21:14 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> James Antill: great thinkers plagiarize even better thinkers 2024-12-05 17:23:05 <@james:fedora.im> Anyone want to volunteer to do a PR? 2024-12-05 17:23:43 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I am about to go out of town for a week so I can't volunteer this time. 2024-12-05 17:24:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> Pretty sure the same people here discussed it anyway 😅. Self plagiarism? 2024-12-05 17:24:42 <@james:fedora.im> The best kind :) 2024-12-05 17:24:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> I have a bunch of writeup I need to do for the next few days, so while I'm doing that I might as well do this too 2024-12-05 17:26:55 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor 2024-12-05 17:27:39 <@james:fedora.im> Next week likely to be the last meeting of the year. 2024-12-05 17:27:58 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Was there a PHP-related request that we needed to addres? 2024-12-05 17:28:32 <@tibbs:fedora.im> The PR list got a good bit longer recently with the license change stuff which we should also address. 2024-12-05 17:28:44 <@james:fedora.im> Technically I think I'll be around on the 19th, but I know a lot of people are already on holiday by then ... and not much is likely to need us. 2024-12-05 17:29:09 <@james:fedora.im> Ahh, probably need to look through the ones that aren't tagged for meeting. 2024-12-05 17:29:18 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Once I get back next week I'll be fully available. 2024-12-05 17:29:39 <@james:fedora.im> Ahh, yeh, msuchy opened a bunch. 2024-12-05 17:29:41 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I really wish there weren't 97 open issues. 2024-12-05 17:30:03 <@tibbs:fedora.im> The PHP thing was https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1401 2024-12-05 17:30:23 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I guess the issue here is that there's no PR. 2024-12-05 17:32:06 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> Yeah I remember that one being odd as like a description of a diff instead of an actual pr 2024-12-05 17:34:07 <@tibbs:fedora.im> All we can really do now besides ask for a PR is to comment on the things we can see in that ticket. I'm not going to have any real opinion on PHP things. 2024-12-05 17:34:08 <@james:fedora.im> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/#renaming-or-replacing-existing-packages 2024-12-05 17:34:08 <@james:fedora.im> Also ... what does everyone think of: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1412 ... adds text to the end of 2024-12-05 17:34:45 <@james:fedora.im> My first reaction was "WTF, of course we tell people about that" ... but I think I've just written text in emails or other places. 2024-12-05 17:34:49 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Regarding 1412 I think it's surprisingly long for what I'd hope would be a simple thing. 2024-12-05 17:34:56 <@james:fedora.im> But maybe it's somewhere else? 2024-12-05 17:36:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's documented in rpm I believe? 2024-12-05 17:36:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> The obsoletes self thing confuses me, that is implicit when the name is the same 2024-12-05 17:37:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> I generally prefer explicit over implicit - so to me the length is fine, but yeah what Carl said 2024-12-05 17:37:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> maybe there needs to be an explicit example for the self-obsolete case because that confuses me too 2024-12-05 17:38:35 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> In the example given I would use requires or recommends in bar to pull it in, and use conflicts to avoid mismatched version file conflicts 2024-12-05 17:38:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> you need the self obsoletes so that it gets added to the transaction 2024-12-05 17:39:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if you explicitly declare obsoletes, it removes the normal upgrade candidate from the transaction 2024-12-05 17:39:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so you have to do both to have both come in with the same transaction 2024-12-05 17:41:37 <@james:fedora.im> I think there's two general cases: foo becomes foo-core and foo-extra where foo-extra requires foo-core ... then foo is just renamed to foo-extra and the requires works out. 2024-12-05 17:41:37 <@james:fedora.im> That's if there's no requires, right? 2024-12-05 17:41:41 <@tibbs:fedora.im> And here we have another example of policy dealing with some quirk of the tooling. 2024-12-05 17:41:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes, that's if there's no requires 2024-12-05 17:41:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> here's the old fedora page about it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrade_paths_%E2%80%94_renaming_or_splitting_packages 2024-12-05 17:42:20 <@james:fedora.im> Ahh, we did have text about it at one point. 2024-12-05 17:42:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the opensuse page unfortunately is more detailed but less relevant because they implemented hints for making splitting smarter 2024-12-05 17:42:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Package_dependencies#Splitting_and_Merging 2024-12-05 17:43:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the documentation around this stuff is very old 2024-12-05 17:46:20 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> new documentation needs to be based on what libsolv behavior we configure 2024-12-05 17:46:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> since libsolv supports multiple obsoletes strategies 2024-12-05 17:47:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but the basics are "every upgrade candidate you want to be included in a transaction needs the obsoletes line" 2024-12-05 17:47:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> some folks like to use Conflicts+Obsoletes to represent something similar to Debian's Breaks+Replaces 2024-12-05 17:48:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> (essentially, a one-way path) 2024-12-05 17:48:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> (that's not what Breaks does: Breaks ensures that the package is uninstalled before the new package is installed) 2024-12-05 17:49:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Conflicts happens to create the same conditions as a side-effect 2024-12-05 17:55:33 <@james:fedora.im> I merged the License PRs ... and added a comment on the PHP issue about opening a PR. 2024-12-05 17:55:43 <@james:fedora.im> Anything else? 2024-12-05 17:56:30 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Not from me. 2024-12-05 17:58:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nothing from me 2024-12-05 17:58:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I spent almost a decade working in both ecosystems for work :) 2024-12-05 17:58:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and I maintain/develop debbuild 2024-12-05 17:58:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so I know how both rpm and dpkg work fairly well 2024-12-05 17:59:53 <@james:fedora.im> Jason ティビツ: Enjoy your week out of town. 2024-12-05 17:59:56 <@james:fedora.im> !endmeeting