<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:34
!startmeeting EPEL (2024-12-11)
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:34
Meeting started at 2024-12-11 18:00:34 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:35
The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-12-11)'
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:41
!meetingname epel
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:00:41
!topic aloha
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:41
The Meeting Name is now epel
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
18:00:48
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:00:49
Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:00:49
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:00:52
Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:00:54
morning
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:01:07
Morning nirik
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:01:14
Hi Diego Herrera and Carl George
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:02:37
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:02:39
Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:02:54
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:02:55
Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:03:12
Hi Michel Lind 🎩 🇬🇧 UTC until Dec 14 and Jonathan Wright
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:03:29
So many michels!
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:04:21
oh is the Element bug striking again? it looks fine on web
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:04:38
(the Android app seems to duplicate the tag for every emoji in the display name)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:17
!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:17
!link https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>
18:05:18
Ah I'm on android app right now
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:46
The only open issue deals with epel10. So I'm going to just to the next agenda item.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:05:53
!topic EPEL 10
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:06:02
!epel 300
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:06:03
**epel #300** (https://pagure.io/epel/issue/300):**EPEL 10 launch**
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:06:03
● **Opened:** a month ago by carlwgeorge
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:06:03
● **Last Updated:** a week ago
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:06:03
● **Assignee:** carlwgeorge
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:06:03
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:06:34
Who wants to kick off the EPEL 10 discussion ... Carl George did you want to?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:08:00
Maybe Carl had to step away for a minute or so, I think I can give a summary.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:08:15
yeah sorry was prepping some lunch
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:08:23
As far as I know, everything technical is in place .... and it looks like Carl is back.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:08:29
trying to multitask never works out for me 🙃
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:08:30
🍱
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:09:30
the announcement is queued up for the commblog, preview is here https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/?p=14289&preview=1&_ppp=e6429a1151
<@neil:fedora.im>
18:10:00
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:10:01
Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:10:09
Hi Neil Hanlon
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:10:10
we'll hit publish once the centos announcement goes out, which should be this week (was hoping for today but that's looking doubtful)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:10:42
Nice
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:10:43
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:10:44
Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:10:53
Hi Robby Callicotte
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:10:56
i have an epel10 old business thing that i'll save for that section, it's not technically related to the launch
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:11:08
I'll be in the office most of the day tomorrow so can boost any announcement provided it's before evening UK time
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:11:30
Sounds good.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:11:56
also of not, got this issue open with fedora marketing https://gitlab.com/fedora/marketing/marketing-planning/-/issues/188
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:12:02
also of note, got this issue open with fedora marketing https://gitlab.com/fedora/marketing/marketing-planning/-/issues/188
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:12:37
I think if it releases tomorrow, it will be good. 12/12 :)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:12:51
Easy to remember ... at least for me.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:13:05
nice
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:13:13
also less confusing between YMD/DMY/MDY
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:13:20
ooh 12+12=24
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:13:34
nice
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:14:00
i think that's it for the launch issue, we can move on unless folks have questions
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:14:22
Thank you Carl. Moving on
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:14:29
!topic Old Business
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:14:50
Carl George: before you eat your lunch ... you said you had some old business?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:15:47
indeed
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:16:09
just wrapped up a meeting with subman and dnf folks related to that releasever_minor problem we talked about previously
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:16:21
Ohh ... how did that go?
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:16:59
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:17:01
Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:17:12
Hi Davide Cavalca
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:17:17
while the subman folks didn't completely rule it out, changing releasever to 10.0 to accommodate setting releasever_minor (in accordance with the current dnf implementation) is doubtful
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:18:00
Looking through the ticket, and the various things it breaks .... I think it's doubtful too.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:18:38
instead what we're going to try is to keep the dnf implementation, but add the ability to do overrides of sort to explicitly set releasever_major and releasever_minor via redhat-release provides, which will give us the desired state of setting releasever_minor while not changing releasever
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:19:13
and somehow i got on a roll and volunteered to do a pull request upstream for that, so wish me luck
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:19:41
🍀
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:19:43
Does that mean that dnf won't change? Or that your pull request will be for upstream?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:19:55
would dnf change for 10.1?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:19:58
Does that mean that dnf won't change? Or that your pull request will be for upstream dnf?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:20:30
it would be an upstream dnf pr, that will either get added as a patch to the rhel 10 dnf package before ga, or done as a rebase
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:21:10
technically a change, but an additive one, not changing the splitting mechanism that upstream wants to keep for compatibility with zypper's similar implementation
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:21:26
Cool. I know it will be some work, but it sounds workable.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:21:47
better than setting our own variable with a scriptlet 😉
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
18:22:00
will that require any changes on how we are handling koji though? or everything is fine on that side?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:22:02
(which is still the emergency fallback plan)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:22:32
no changes on koji side as far as i know, once releasever_minor gets set things just align and all is well in the epel universe
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:22:34
Yep ... at least we had a proof of concept, so in an emergency, we can use that ... but I agree, I'd rather not.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:23:21
Yep ... at least we had a proof of concept for the script, so in an emergency, we can use that ... but I agree, I'd rather not.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:23:26
that should cover that item, anyone else have other old business?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:24:25
From the silence ... it sounds like that's it for Old Business
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:24:51
!topic General Issues / Open Floor
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:25:06
work outages are not fun
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:25:20
Does anyone have anything for Open Floor?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:25:54
Did we determine meetings for the next few weeks? I will be out after friday until jan 6th.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:26:06
I don't think we have
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:26:11
Nope, but I was just about to bring that up.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:26:28
cancel them all lol
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:26:30
So, definatly Dec 25 and Jan 1 let's cancel ... but what about the other weeks.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:26:30
I'm around next week but will likely either still be jetlagged / have errands to run so can't promise to be lucid
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:26:51
agreed on canceling dec 25 and jan 1
<@neil:fedora.im>
18:27:05
i'll be around next week, but out after that til jan 7th or so
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:27:33
i'm for sure out dec 25, jan 1, and jan 8. i imagine the last one most people will be back so we don't have to cancel that one just on my account.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:27:56
lucky y'all, I plan to be crunching work until performance review time but then will escape for a family vacation in January :)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:28:10
so... are we meeting next week?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:28:30
i'll be around
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:28:38
I'll be around too.
<@neil:fedora.im>
18:28:57
we can have an EPEL holiday party :)
<@neil:fedora.im>
18:29:03
i.e. meeting
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:29:43
I'm ok having it next week, but I'm also OK not having it as a bit of a holiday present to everyone.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:29:46
bring your ugly sweaters everyone
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:31:20
How about this, no more meeting until Jan 8th. Is that ok?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:31:27
+1
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:31:31
+1
<@neil:fedora.im>
18:31:40
+1 and happy holidays, all :)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:31:41
sounds like a winner
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:31:48
happy holidays everyone
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:32:11
Looks like even if we have a -1, it will still pass. ... Ya!!
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:32:38
oh, i have one open floor item too, when we're ready
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:32:44
🎅
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:32:56
we are on open floor I think
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:33:01
yup
<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>
18:33:05
Happy holidays!!
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:33:08
I was just about to ask if we had any more Open Floor stuff ... so go for it Carl.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:33:16
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2330296
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:34:12
tldr, cekit in epel8 doesn't install, and i believe has never been installable. we don't cover this scenario in our retirement policy. it doesn't exactly fit under "no time" or any of the others.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:34:12
seems reasonable
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:34:41
package never worked, retiring sounds like it will be some space saving and also doesn't waste people's time trying to install it
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:34:54
i was thinking we could add an "other" section to be more open ended, the main question would be how much notice would it need.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:35:19
or we can just add this scenario exactly, "uninstallable or otherwise broken"
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:35:21
oh... speaking of that Davide Cavalca has this wishlist that fedpkg mockbuild would get a --postinstall option
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:35:52
Carl George: but if the package has ever been installable and suddenly FTIs we don't always want to allow it to be retired immediately right?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:35:54
Ha it never worked? Or never been in EPEL8? Looking at Willit - it's only been uninstallable from the beginning of December - https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/epel/willit/epel8/status-wont-install.html
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:35:57
It's hard to know if someone else would want to step up and fix it... but retirement seems ok, someone else can unretire it if they like
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:36:00
if the effort to fix it is too much, yes, I agree
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:36:28
from Carl's analysis based on the version of packaging it needs it's never installable... or did previous versions want older versions of packaging?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:36:57
fun fact, epel10 updates have been having the automated test for installability run the past few days, but it's broken and doesn't run with epel enabled so if there are deps in epel it reports a false failure. a step in the right direction though.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:37:27
it has a dep on a minimum version that has never been in rhel8, so i don't think it's ever worked
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:37:34
crawl, walk, run... ;)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:37:36
heck my installability tests in Rawhide seem to pretend they fail even though I can see a successful DNF transaction.... so even in Fedora things are flaky
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:37:49
right, it might be quite case by case
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:38:22
the very first version in epel8 already had this minimum version
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:39:18
Yep .... so I agree, it looks like it's never worked. Willit only changed the date because the package was updated. So I agree, just retire it from epel8.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:39:57
I seem to be very agreeable today. 😀
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:40:06
yeah for this one i recommended just outright retiring, and told the maintainer that an email was optional since it's not in policy
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:40:20
no one should be mad about this going away because it's never worked 😀
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:40:55
the bigger question (that we don't have to answer today) is the policy change. if someone wants to volunteer to draft up text for an "other" section in the retirement policy i'd love to hand this off.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:41:21
I have a big writing backlog so pass for now :)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:41:35
So the policy would be something like "If it never installed, it can be retired without any extra stuff to do." ?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:42:06
I'll take it.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:42:25
well, either we go that route to cover this exact scenario, or we do the "other" catchall
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:42:32
Although I think I'll add "... without any extra stuff to do, but optionally you can send an email."
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:42:50
I feel like there are two FTI scenarios
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:42:55
i guess we could cover both, like a note that says "if you have some other scenario that you think justifies a retirement but isn't covered here, reach out to the steering committee"
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:43:18
if it never installs, yeet it immediately, if it used to install, then maybe treat it the same as security retirement - "retire if fixing is too difficult"
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:43:33
so slightly higher barrier but hopefully not unreasonably so
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:43:34
maybe there aren't any other scenarios we want to all, since "no time or desire" is already super broad
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:43:41
maybe there aren't any other scenarios we want to allow, since "no time or desire" is already super broad
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:43:53
good point. I think no time or desire covers it
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:44:01
we just need to list uninstallability as one of the conditions
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:44:22
in this exact case there is desire it seems, it keeps getting updated, it just still doesn't work
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:44:39
well... desire to fix it though, not desire to package it :)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:44:42
thanks for picking that up troy
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:44:53
carlwgeorge gave a cookie to tdawson. They now have 82 cookies, 5 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:45:09
yselkowitz has already given cookies to tdawson during the F41 timeframe
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:45:20
salimma has already given cookies to tdawson during the F41 timeframe
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:45:21
will be happy to review once you submit the pr
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:46:42
Yep, I won't merge until I get a review. If it seems controverial, a vote. But to me it seems logically like what we want, it just wasn't spelled out.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:47:40
Thanks for bringing this up.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:47:48
Yeah seems we all agree, and just need to nail down the wording. Lots of our docs changes are like that.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:47:49
Is there anything else for Open Floor?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:47:58
Nothing else from me
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:48:38
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:48:40
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:48:45
Hi Conan Kudo
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:49:27
Just in time for me to say if there isn't anything else, we can end early. 😀
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:49:44
are we going to announce EPEL 10 and CS10 today? :)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:50:01
It looks like it's going to be tomorrow.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:50:12
ah okay
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:50:23
Which will be much more memorable, cuz it's 12/12
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:50:31
And 12 + 12 = 24
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:50:39
heh
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:50:48
And all sorts of other fun math ... maybe.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:50:57
something something 42
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:51:09
*laughs*
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:52:07
Anything else before we end the meeting?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:53:00
nothing from me
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:53:10
I'm 50/50 on being around next week
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:53:12
Conan Kudo: Oh, and we agreed that we will have no more meetings until January 8th.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:53:17
definitely not going to be around after that
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:53:25
works for me
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
18:53:28
what about office hours ?
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
18:53:45
postponed to 8th? or canceled for january?
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
18:53:53
I doubt anyone would be around on the 1st
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:54:11
Oh ya. I wouldn't mind postponing until the 8th if people want.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:54:14
if we postpone it we might miss the next one because it's right after fosdem, right
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:54:21
oh, I mean if we cancel
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:54:27
so postponing is probably better
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:55:17
I think it would be good to have it on the 8th. And it's optional also ... so if people don't show, it's ok.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:55:20
I think it's fine just to skip January
<@neil:fedora.im>
18:55:59
no pref from me, i usually don't catch office hours... though it's on my calendar now! that's a start :D
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:56:13
But I also won't be around either the 1st or 8th, and y'all are welcome to chat without me. Not like there is an agenda for that one.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:57:24
Yep, since there isn't an agenda, and if there is any serious stuff, it goes to this meeting ... let's just say it's moved a week and see how many people show up.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:58:23
I'll send out an email about the meetings right after we end.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:58:23
I'll edit it in fedora calendar
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:59:01
Thanks. Everytime I edit the calendar ... it doesn't stay. Always odd.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
18:59:42
Looks like our time is up. Thank you all for all you do for EPEL and it's community.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:00:09
I'll talk to ya'll next year. Have fun, safe holidays!
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
19:00:44
Thanks Troy ^^
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:00:53
dherrera has already given cookies to tdawson during the F41 timeframe
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:01:02
dherrera has already given cookies to tdawson during the F41 timeframe
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:01:15
!endmeeting