#meeting-1:fedoraproject.org log

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:00:58

!startmeeting fedora_bootc_initiative

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

15:01:01

Meeting started at 2025-04-01 15:00:58 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

15:01:01

The Meeting name is 'fedora_bootc_initiative'

<@jmarrero:matrix.org>

15:01:13

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:01:16

Joseph Marrero (jmarrero)

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:01:24

!topic roll call

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:02:08

Hmm, is the bot not working, or is my syntax bad?

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:02:16

there we go

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:02:55

We might have light attendance today, there's an internal RH meeting that folks might be attending.

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:04:46

Does anyone have topics to raise today, potentially for follow up?

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:04:58

On that note, I opened a gitlab ticket to talk about specific topics we may want to arrange particular meetings around: https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/64

<@hricky:fedora.im>

15:07:06

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:07:07

Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his

<@jmarrero:matrix.org>

15:08:08

We also will probably have a weekly public meeting about bootc (not fedora-bootc) But meetings related to specific topics makes sense, but I agree it will need planning, we would need a lead for each topic to manage those meetings and drive the conversations.

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:09:09

We typically do have good convos in these meetings, but they haven't been very directed 🙂

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:09:24

I think we can do more async if we plan for it

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:09:53

With video meetings sprinkled in for higher bandwidth as needed

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:10:33

while I don't show up often to these, I won't be able to show up to any video meetings as I don't have the schedule room for it

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:10:38

!hi

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:10:56

The text-based lets you multitask?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:11:01

yes

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:11:03

I feel that, myself

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:11:13

hmm zodbot doesn't see me, that's not good

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:11:35

It's been laggy today

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:11:39

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:12:11

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:12:28

from a fedora bootc perspective, davdunc has been interested in trying to provide compatible container and disk images leveraging the kiwi tooling

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:13:10

and there's _some_ upstream interest in supporting it too

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:13:17

and there's _some_ upstream kiwi interest in supporting it too

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:13:47

especially since the rpm-ostree pull request continues to decay and people want to build these kind of operating systems with kiwi

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:14:01

He David written up what he's looking to do, or should we have a chat with him about it?

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:14:06

Has David

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:14:14

you probably want to talk to him about it

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:14:19

Can you link that PR?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:14:36

!link https://github.com/OSInside/kiwi/pull/2557

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:15:18

rpm-ostree support is the oldest open ticket in kiwi upstream

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:15:20

!link https://github.com/OSInside/kiwi/issues/38

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:16:06

I'll follow up on that

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:16:35

the desire is for kiwi to be able to produce the whole workflow... base and layered OCI archives as well as output images

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:18:42

most of the workflow bits for doing bootc-like stuff already exist in kiwi, and there's even a plugin to automate this with `kiwi-stackbuild-plugin`

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:19:11

what we _don't_ do is lock the filesystem inside of container storage or do the composefs mount stuff

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:19:30

!link https://osinside.github.io/kiwi/plugins/stackbuild.html

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:19:39

Is that not possible in kiwi?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:19:54

you can do it by hand, but the idea is to make it effortless and declarative

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:20:05

that requires some kind of awareness of how this should be set up

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:20:33

I've also heard mentions that bootc capable OCI archives need to be specially formatted

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:20:39

but I don't know the details of that

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:21:00

if that's true, then that makes it important for kiwi to have some awareness of producing containers intended for bootc

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:21:22

Those images are supposed to be buildable by any old oci container build tools

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:21:36

But I need to read up on all of this to actually be helpful 🙂

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:21:50

that doesn't mean that special formatting isn't needed, it's just that someone is doing it in an implied way somewhere else :)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:22:26

e.g. if you're deriving from a base container, the base container already has the stuff so it's invisible to you

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:23:08

Right, building the derived images is going to be simpler than the base images

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:23:13

exactly

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:23:20

and the goal of kiwi is to make _all_ of it easy

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:23:24

and verifiable

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:24:02

And is kiwi how Fedora images are being built now? I'm wondering what else making this work well might enable?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:24:05

yes

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:24:32

Fedora, CentOS Hyperscale, and some CentOS Stream images are all built with kiwi

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:24:53

it's also used in openSUSE and SLE (but I don't think you care much about that)

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:25:20

I do think it'd be awesome to enable bootc in non-RH family distros, though

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:25:51

kiwi supports RH/Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu, SUSE, Arch, and Alpine/pmOS (as of this morning!)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:26:20

kiwi supports Fedora/CentOS, Debian/Ubuntu, SUSE, Arch, and Alpine/pmOS (as of this morning!)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

15:26:34

kiwi supports Fedora/CentOS, Debian/Ubuntu, (open)SUSE, Arch, and Alpine/pmOS (as of this morning!)

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:27:52

OK, any other topics to raise, or should we draw this one to a close?

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:29:38

I see you keep typing, Sean 🙂

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:30:36

I see your pm

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:31:39

OK, I'm going to close this one off, thanks for coming folks. I'd appreciate it if you weighed in on that gitlab thread about what you're looking to get out of these meetings. https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/64

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:31:55

And I'll read up on the items you linked, Conan Kudo

<@jbrooks:matrix.org>

15:31:59

!endmeeting