<@james:fedora.im>
16:00:32
!startmeeting fpc
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:00:33
Meeting started at 2025-05-29 16:00:32 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:00:33
The Meeting name is 'fpc'
<@james:fedora.im>
16:00:35
!topic Roll Call
<@tibbs:fedora.im>
16:00:38
Hello.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:00:48
ehlo
<@james:fedora.im>
16:02:23
Err: Missing hostname.
<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>
16:03:01
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:03:02
Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:03:26
damn those strict SMTP servers :)
<@james:fedora.im>
16:04:50
Postel's is for the internet before 1995 (max).
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:07:07
Thou shalt have no SMTP but Gmail, saith the Lord Google
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:07:26
(happy Fastmail user btw, busy de-Googling my life except darn Android is still the lesser evil)
<@tibbs:fedora.im>
16:08:15
I've been using fastmail for quite some time now.
<@james:fedora.im>
16:08:40
Yeh, I've been moving away from them and amazon as much as I can. But it's not easy.
<@tibbs:fedora.im>
16:09:05
I was also the Fedora cyrus-imapd maintainer for many years.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:09:06
!hi
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:09:07
yeah I'm slowly moving stuff off of GMail too ...
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:09:11
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:09:20
I literally can't
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:09:23
nobody can handle my email load
<@tibbs:fedora.im>
16:09:37
I never liked using gmail; I have an account but it constantly gets mail from some other person named Jason Tibbitts.
<@tibbs:fedora.im>
16:09:51
Sorry, _for_ the other Jason Tibbitts.
<@tibbs:fedora.im>
16:10:09
Including his divorce papers, student loan notices, auto insurance info, and more.
<@james:fedora.im>
16:10:35
Even you?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:10:41
heh I remember the person who got Obama's emails
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:10:51
I'm not ever running my own server again
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:11:13
amen 🙏
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:11:14
Without saying anything let me just say I share a first name with our company's Chief Privacy Officer and I start first, so I get the easier to guess email address
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:11:22
I looked at Proton's rate limits and they actually look pretty decent, that was the criterion that eliminated most other non-GMail mail providers for me :(
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:11:37
oh gosh no I never want to run my own server, custom domain is at the limit of what I am willing to deal with
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:11:48
and I never ever want to go without a custom domain because I like my independence
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:12:06
switching from mailbox and Migadu (which can't handle my load) to fastmail was basically painless
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:12:11
I was an idiot as a kid
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:12:23
weren't we all?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:12:26
Proton seems a pain if you want direct IMAP access though, you need to run a bridge?
<@james:fedora.im>
16:12:32
I used to run my own SMTP server, but that was when I was much younger and just as stupid.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:12:45
also I avoid anything where the CEO has weird politics these days (yes, I don't use Instagram, before you ask :P)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:12:58
eh, running one's own SMTP did not use to be that bad
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:13:02
migadu failed me on my last larger-scale usage of it and it has me thinking of moving off
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:13:14
I remember when Bayesian spam filters were new, and we don't have all these DMARC nonsense
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:13:16
luckily the only thing I still use that's stuck on my old go-to nickname is my Steam account ... you can never change it but I also don't want to create a new one for 💰ī¸ reasons
<@james:fedora.im>
16:13:18
True, but it did get much worse quickly.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:13:25
I still do have a local SMTP server, just no POP/IMAP one
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:13:30
oh yeah Migadu is really bad at performance if you have too many mail or too many clients
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:13:43
and the web interface is super slow, you really need to use an IMAP client
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:13:45
the local SMTP server is for specific purposes though
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:13:59
the Migadu web client makes me want to cry
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:14:10
at least you can change your email, it's just the nick right
<@james:fedora.im>
16:14:20
Yeh, setting up a local outgoing SMTP server is easy ... as long as you don't need to send email to gmail ;)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:14:22
I'm stuck with my old Gmail address again because of 💰ī¸
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:14:30
same
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:14:41
i tried using it as outbound for a (small) discourse forum... don't recommend
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:14:44
a variety of random 💰ī¸ things are attached to it
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:14:52
but I only use it for Google Play nowadays, and to filter bad recruiters who are too dumb to follow instructions when I say please use my new one
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:15:04
my YT account is actually old enough to detach from one google account and migrate to another
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:15:14
I see this is another Airing of Grievances meeting ;)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:15:16
Festivus!
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:15:19
but that's not really the problem child
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:15:23
oh man we should do Fedora Festivus
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:15:29
another one? :D oh no
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:15:32
that would actually be fun
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:15:34
and release it on Dec 23
<@james:fedora.im>
16:15:43
It's the F42 post release party, party
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:16:01
post release party and pre-Flock?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:16:07
I mean, I'm hand-editing kernel configs right now
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:16:16
so this is certainly better conversation than what I expected
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:16:36
I'm using this to delay dealing with JIRA :P
<@james:fedora.im>
16:16:49
Aren't you supposed to run `make cliconfig` or something.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:17:01
make aiconfig when ;)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:17:08
well, all that stuff is goofy with post-processed rhel configs
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:17:08
make ramallamaconfig
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:17:31
I really wish the kernel hadn't moved to source-git model
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:17:41
so do I
<@james:fedora.im>
16:17:56
Why is it worse?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:17:56
I don't see how it's beneficial esp given the source tree is so huge
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:18:19
I literally cannot host the repo and going through the history is slow
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:18:32
having so many copies of the source code also fills up my disk
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:18:35
I don't need them all
<@james:fedora.im>
16:19:05
Ahh, so the problem is more that you need a shallow checkout
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:19:17
shallow means no history
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:19:30
which is not helpful when I need history on changes in `redhat/`
<@james:fedora.im>
16:19:43
Ahh
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:20:10
right now, I have 5 copies of the Linux kernel checked out :(
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:20:16
this makes me unbelievably sad
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:20:34
because ~100GB of space is just eaten by Linux kernel checkouts
<@james:fedora.im>
16:20:47
hardlink help at all?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:21:02
I managed to save some space with btrfs reflinks
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:21:19
but git's lack of awareness of btrfs features means it's less than optimal
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:21:30
add them as remotes on a single checkout and switch between them?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:21:37
idk how much space saving you get that way
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:21:51
I get a lot of space saving, but the git actions get incredibly slow
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:21:54
probably not if they are very divergent anyway
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:22:03
the asahi kernel git has 3 remotes and it takes _forever_
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:22:06
but yeah then switching branches get super slow
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:22:27
so yeah I guess it makes dealing with config changes vs dealing with code changes mixed together
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:22:29
!hi
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:22:29
you can't separate them anymore
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:22:31
Eduard Lucena (x3mboy) - he / him / his
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:22:35
Hi Eduard
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:23:02
I'm just lurking meetings, you can safely ignore me
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:23:13
we're just spitballing here so feel free to join
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:23:20
yeah that's also why kernel package changelogs have been useless for a while ...
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:23:25
we went from SMTP is horrible to source git is terrible
<@james:fedora.im>
16:23:28
!topic Open floor
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:23:34
what's next, JIRA? :P
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:23:41
đŸĒĻ
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:23:52
I literally have a weekly todo to trawl issues.redhat.co
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:23:56
I literally have a weekly todo to trawl issues.redhat.com
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:24:06
because jira search is awful
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:24:07
we thank you for that service
<@smooge:fedora.im>
16:24:23
now now.. its only painful if you use it
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:24:24
I have caught more than a few problems that way too :/
<@james:fedora.im>
16:24:25
Yeh, we have no changed/new tickets ... so anything to talk about is fine.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:24:35
đŸŽļ *may the circle ~ be unbroken* đŸŽļ
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:24:47
I have a question
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:24:53
shoot
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:25:04
Usually people do package review during flock?
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:25:26
Sorry for my failing grammar, I throw the question as popped in my mind in Spanish
<@james:fedora.im>
16:25:32
That's not the only time ... but there will be a lot of people at flock qualified to help.
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:25:34
Sorry for my failed grammar, I throw the question as popped in my mind in Spanish
<@tibbs:fedora.im>
16:26:18
Wow, I haven't been to flock in quite a long time.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:26:24
idk what's planned for Flock this year. last year we had the EPEL 10 hackfest
<@james:fedora.im>
16:26:40
Which does merge into a topic I had for today ... did we want to cancel next week's meeting? I won't be at flock, but I assume a bunch of you will be.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:26:54
there's an EPEL hackfest, a Packaging workshop, a Multimedia meeting ...
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:26:54
and yeah it's easy to grab someone in the hallway track and ask for help (that's how I got started with Rust packaging way back then when it was still weird)
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:27:13
yeah I will be at flock next week
<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>
16:27:32
there are two notable workshops, and epel one (not specific to epel10 this time) and a python/go/rust packaging one
<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>
16:27:40
there are two notable workshops, an epel one (not specific to epel10 this time) and a python/go/rust packaging one
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:27:56
EPEL had this discussion yesterday and decided to skip next week
<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>
16:27:56
oh and a multimedia one
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:27:56
I won't attend flock, but I will keep working in my first and only package
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:27:57
:D
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:28:08
the following week is DevConf but that probably affects less people
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:28:38
ah if you're not in person then it might be *harder* to get people unless you're in an EU friendly timezone :)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:28:58
I'm sitting out Flock this year but I don't mind getting some time back
<@x3mboy:fedora.im>
16:29:07
I work in 3 different timezones, so possibly
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:31:26
I will be at both, for $REASONS ...
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:31:44
see you at devconf in two weeks!
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:31:48
wow time flies
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:31:59
party đŸĨŗ
<@salimma:fedora.im>
16:32:11
there are some nice restaurants in town
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:32:13
indeed
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:33:58
I will be at both too...
<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>
16:37:50
+1 to cancel next week's meeting
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:38:02
+1 to canceling the next two :D
<@tibbs:fedora.im>
16:38:52
Maybe I'll use the time to do something useful like look at old tickets.
<@james:fedora.im>
16:41:28
Yeh, looks like there's no point in next week (6th June) ... and the week after is close at best. Anyone want to speak up to keep the 12th?
<@james:fedora.im>
16:46:45
!info No meeting 2025-06-06
<@james:fedora.im>
16:47:25
!info No meeting 2025-06-12
<@james:fedora.im>
16:47:36
!info No meeting 2025-06-05
<@james:fedora.im>
16:47:53
I apparently can't count to next week too, so that's good ;)
<@james:fedora.im>
16:49:41
Anything else anyone wants to talk about, or we all getting 10m back so Conan Kudo can do one or two git operations on a 100GB tree?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:50:00
nothing from me
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:51:07
James: this is the fun I was working through by hand... https://paste.centos.org/view/d5ad9ef3
<@james:fedora.im>
16:51:59
You probably know about this already, but if not: https://github.com/so-fancy/diff-so-fancy
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:52:14
oh do we have this in fedora?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:52:29
and no I didn't know about this
<@james:fedora.im>
16:52:41
It's on all my machines, I'm not sure it's packaged
<@james:fedora.im>
16:53:09
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/diff-so-fancy
<@james:fedora.im>
16:53:48
We have everything, now ;)
<@james:fedora.im>
16:55:37
And on that note ...
<@james:fedora.im>
16:55:39
!endmeeting