2025-05-29 16:00:32 <@james:fedora.im> !startmeeting fpc

2025-05-29 16:00:33 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-05-29 16:00:32 UTC
2025-05-29 16:00:33 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fpc'
2025-05-29 16:00:35 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2025-05-29 16:00:38 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Hello.
2025-05-29 16:00:48 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> ehlo
2025-05-29 16:02:23 <@james:fedora.im> Err: Missing hostname.
2025-05-29 16:03:01 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> !hi
2025-05-29 16:03:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2025-05-29 16:03:26 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> damn those strict SMTP servers :)
2025-05-29 16:04:50 <@james:fedora.im> Postel's is for the internet before 1995 (max).
2025-05-29 16:07:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> Thou shalt have no SMTP but Gmail, saith the Lord Google
2025-05-29 16:07:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> (happy Fastmail user btw, busy de-Googling my life except darn Android is still the lesser evil)
2025-05-29 16:08:15 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I've been using fastmail for quite some time now.
2025-05-29 16:08:40 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh, I've been moving away from them and amazon as much as I can. But it's not easy.
2025-05-29 16:09:05 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I was also the Fedora cyrus-imapd maintainer for many years.
2025-05-29 16:09:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2025-05-29 16:09:07 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> yeah I'm slowly moving stuff off of GMail too ...
2025-05-29 16:09:11 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2025-05-29 16:09:20 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I literally can't
2025-05-29 16:09:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nobody can handle my email load
2025-05-29 16:09:37 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I never liked using gmail; I have an account but it constantly gets mail from some other person named Jason Tibbitts.
2025-05-29 16:09:51 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Sorry, _for_ the other Jason Tibbitts.
2025-05-29 16:10:09 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Including his divorce papers, student loan notices, auto insurance info, and more.
2025-05-29 16:10:35 <@james:fedora.im> Even you?
2025-05-29 16:10:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> heh I remember the person who got Obama's emails
2025-05-29 16:10:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm not ever running my own server again
2025-05-29 16:11:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> amen 🙏
2025-05-29 16:11:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> Without saying anything let me just say I share a first name with our company's Chief Privacy Officer and I start first, so I get the easier to guess email address
2025-05-29 16:11:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I looked at Proton's rate limits and they actually look pretty decent, that was the criterion that eliminated most other non-GMail mail providers for me :(
2025-05-29 16:11:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh gosh no I never want to run my own server, custom domain is at the limit of what I am willing to deal with
2025-05-29 16:11:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> and I never ever want to go without a custom domain because I like my independence
2025-05-29 16:12:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> switching from mailbox and Migadu (which can't handle my load) to fastmail was basically painless
2025-05-29 16:12:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I was an idiot as a kid
2025-05-29 16:12:23 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> weren't we all? 
2025-05-29 16:12:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> Proton seems a pain if you want direct IMAP access though, you need to run a bridge?
2025-05-29 16:12:32 <@james:fedora.im> I used to run my own SMTP server, but that was when I was much younger and just as stupid.
2025-05-29 16:12:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> also I avoid anything where the CEO has weird politics these days (yes, I don't use Instagram, before you ask :P)
2025-05-29 16:12:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> eh, running one's own SMTP did not use to be that bad
2025-05-29 16:13:02 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> migadu failed me on my last larger-scale usage of it and it has me thinking of moving off
2025-05-29 16:13:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> I remember when Bayesian spam filters were new, and we don't have all these DMARC nonsense
2025-05-29 16:13:16 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> luckily the only thing I still use that's stuck on my old go-to nickname is my Steam account ... you can never change it but I also don't want to create a new one for 💰️ reasons
2025-05-29 16:13:18 <@james:fedora.im> True, but it did get much worse quickly.
2025-05-29 16:13:25 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I still do have a local SMTP server, just no POP/IMAP one
2025-05-29 16:13:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh yeah Migadu is really bad at performance if you have too many mail or too many clients
2025-05-29 16:13:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> and the web interface is super slow, you really need to use an IMAP client
2025-05-29 16:13:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the local SMTP server is for specific purposes though
2025-05-29 16:13:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the Migadu web client makes me want to cry
2025-05-29 16:14:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> at least you can change your email, it's just the nick right
2025-05-29 16:14:20 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh, setting up a local outgoing SMTP server is easy ... as long as you don't need to send email to gmail ;)
2025-05-29 16:14:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm stuck with my old Gmail address again because of 💰️
2025-05-29 16:14:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> same
2025-05-29 16:14:41 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i tried using it as outbound for a (small) discourse forum... don't recommend
2025-05-29 16:14:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> a variety of random 💰️ things are attached to it
2025-05-29 16:14:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> but I only use it for Google Play nowadays, and to filter bad recruiters who are too dumb to follow instructions when I say please use my new one
2025-05-29 16:15:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> my YT account is actually old enough to detach from one google account and migrate to another
2025-05-29 16:15:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> I see this is another Airing of Grievances meeting ;)
2025-05-29 16:15:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> Festivus!
2025-05-29 16:15:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but that's not really the problem child
2025-05-29 16:15:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh man we should do Fedora Festivus
2025-05-29 16:15:29 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> another one? :D oh no 
2025-05-29 16:15:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that would actually be fun
2025-05-29 16:15:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> and release it on Dec 23
2025-05-29 16:15:43 <@james:fedora.im> It's the F42 post release party, party
2025-05-29 16:16:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> post release party and pre-Flock?
2025-05-29 16:16:07 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I mean, I'm hand-editing kernel configs right now
2025-05-29 16:16:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so this is certainly better conversation than what I expected
2025-05-29 16:16:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm using this to delay dealing with JIRA :P
2025-05-29 16:16:49 <@james:fedora.im> Aren't you supposed to run `make cliconfig` or something.
2025-05-29 16:17:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> make aiconfig when ;)
2025-05-29 16:17:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well, all that stuff is goofy with post-processed rhel configs
2025-05-29 16:17:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> make ramallamaconfig
2025-05-29 16:17:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I really wish the kernel hadn't moved to source-git model
2025-05-29 16:17:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> so do I
2025-05-29 16:17:56 <@james:fedora.im> Why is it worse?
2025-05-29 16:17:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> I don't see how it's beneficial esp given the source tree is so huge
2025-05-29 16:18:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I literally cannot host the repo and going through the history is slow
2025-05-29 16:18:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> having so many copies of the source code also fills up my disk
2025-05-29 16:18:35 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't need them all
2025-05-29 16:19:05 <@james:fedora.im> Ahh, so the problem is more that you need a shallow checkout
2025-05-29 16:19:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> shallow means no history
2025-05-29 16:19:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> which is not helpful when I need history on changes in `redhat/`
2025-05-29 16:19:43 <@james:fedora.im> Ahh
2025-05-29 16:20:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> right now, I have 5 copies of the Linux kernel checked out :(
2025-05-29 16:20:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this makes me unbelievably sad
2025-05-29 16:20:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> because ~100GB of space is just eaten by Linux kernel checkouts
2025-05-29 16:20:47 <@james:fedora.im> hardlink help at all?
2025-05-29 16:21:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I managed to save some space with btrfs reflinks
2025-05-29 16:21:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but git's lack of awareness of btrfs features means it's less than optimal
2025-05-29 16:21:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> add them as remotes on a single checkout and switch between them?
2025-05-29 16:21:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> idk how much space saving you get that way
2025-05-29 16:21:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I get a lot of space saving, but the git actions get incredibly slow
2025-05-29 16:21:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> probably not if they are very divergent anyway
2025-05-29 16:22:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the asahi kernel git has 3 remotes and it takes _forever_
2025-05-29 16:22:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> but yeah then switching branches get super slow
2025-05-29 16:22:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> so yeah I guess it makes dealing with config changes vs dealing with code changes mixed together
2025-05-29 16:22:29 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> !hi
2025-05-29 16:22:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> you can't separate them anymore
2025-05-29 16:22:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Eduard Lucena (x3mboy) - he / him / his
2025-05-29 16:22:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> Hi Eduard
2025-05-29 16:23:02 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> I'm just lurking meetings, you can safely ignore me
2025-05-29 16:23:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> we're just spitballing here so feel free to join
2025-05-29 16:23:20 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> yeah that's also why kernel package changelogs have been useless for a while ... 
2025-05-29 16:23:25 <@salimma:fedora.im> we went from SMTP is horrible to source git is terrible
2025-05-29 16:23:28 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2025-05-29 16:23:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> what's next, JIRA? :P
2025-05-29 16:23:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> 🪦
2025-05-29 16:23:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I literally have a weekly todo to trawl issues.redhat.co
2025-05-29 16:23:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I literally have a weekly todo to trawl issues.redhat.com
2025-05-29 16:24:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> because jira search is awful
2025-05-29 16:24:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> we thank you for that service
2025-05-29 16:24:23 <@smooge:fedora.im> now now.. its only painful if you use it
2025-05-29 16:24:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I have caught more than a few problems that way too :/
2025-05-29 16:24:25 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh, we have no changed/new tickets ... so anything to talk about is fine.
2025-05-29 16:24:35 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> 🎶 *may the circle ~ be unbroken* 🎶
2025-05-29 16:24:47 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> I have a question
2025-05-29 16:24:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> shoot
2025-05-29 16:25:04 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> Usually people do package review during flock?
2025-05-29 16:25:26 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> Sorry for my failing grammar, I throw the question as popped in my mind in Spanish
2025-05-29 16:25:32 <@james:fedora.im> That's not the only time ... but there will be a lot of people at flock qualified to help.
2025-05-29 16:25:34 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> Sorry for my failed grammar, I throw the question as popped in my mind in Spanish
2025-05-29 16:26:18 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Wow, I haven't been to flock in quite a long time.
2025-05-29 16:26:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> idk what's planned for Flock this year. last year we had the EPEL 10 hackfest
2025-05-29 16:26:40 <@james:fedora.im> Which does merge into a topic I had for today ... did we want to cancel next week's meeting? I won't be at flock, but I assume a bunch of you will be.
2025-05-29 16:26:54 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> there's an EPEL hackfest, a Packaging workshop, a Multimedia meeting ... 
2025-05-29 16:26:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> and yeah it's easy to grab someone in the hallway track and ask for help (that's how I got started with Rust packaging way back then when it was still weird)
2025-05-29 16:27:13 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> yeah I will be at flock next week
2025-05-29 16:27:32 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> there are two notable workshops, and epel one (not specific to epel10 this time) and a python/go/rust packaging one
2025-05-29 16:27:40 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> there are two notable workshops, an epel one (not specific to epel10 this time) and a python/go/rust packaging one
2025-05-29 16:27:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> EPEL had this discussion yesterday and decided to skip next week
2025-05-29 16:27:56 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> oh and a multimedia one
2025-05-29 16:27:56 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> I won't attend flock, but I will keep working in my first and only package
2025-05-29 16:27:57 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> :D
2025-05-29 16:28:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> the following week is DevConf but that probably affects less people
2025-05-29 16:28:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah if you're not in person then it might be *harder* to get people unless you're in an EU friendly timezone :)
2025-05-29 16:28:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm sitting out Flock this year but I don't mind getting some time back
2025-05-29 16:29:07 <@x3mboy:fedora.im> I work in 3 different timezones, so possibly
2025-05-29 16:31:26 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I will be at both, for $REASONS ...
2025-05-29 16:31:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> see you at devconf in two weeks!
2025-05-29 16:31:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> wow time flies
2025-05-29 16:31:59 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> party 🥳
2025-05-29 16:32:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> there are some nice restaurants in town
2025-05-29 16:32:13 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> indeed
2025-05-29 16:33:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I will be at both too...
2025-05-29 16:37:50 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> +1 to cancel next week's meeting
2025-05-29 16:38:02 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1 to canceling the next two :D
2025-05-29 16:38:52 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Maybe I'll use the time to do something useful like look at old tickets.
2025-05-29 16:41:28 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh, looks like there's no point in next week (6th June) ... and the week after is close at best. Anyone want to speak up to keep the 12th?
2025-05-29 16:46:45 <@james:fedora.im> !info No meeting 2025-06-06
2025-05-29 16:47:25 <@james:fedora.im> !info No meeting 2025-06-12
2025-05-29 16:47:36 <@james:fedora.im> !info No meeting 2025-06-05
2025-05-29 16:47:53 <@james:fedora.im> I apparently can't count to next week too, so that's good ;)
2025-05-29 16:49:41 <@james:fedora.im> Anything else anyone wants to talk about, or we all getting 10m back so Conan Kudo can do one or two git operations on a 100GB tree?
2025-05-29 16:50:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nothing from me
2025-05-29 16:51:07 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> James: this is the fun I was working through by hand... https://paste.centos.org/view/d5ad9ef3
2025-05-29 16:51:59 <@james:fedora.im> You probably know about this already, but if not: https://github.com/so-fancy/diff-so-fancy
2025-05-29 16:52:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oh do we have this in fedora?
2025-05-29 16:52:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and no I didn't know about this
2025-05-29 16:52:41 <@james:fedora.im> It's on all my machines, I'm not sure it's packaged
2025-05-29 16:53:09 <@james:fedora.im> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/diff-so-fancy
2025-05-29 16:53:48 <@james:fedora.im> We have everything, now ;)
2025-05-29 16:55:37 <@james:fedora.im> And on that note ...
2025-05-29 16:55:39 <@james:fedora.im> !endmeeting