2025-06-26 16:00:10 <@james:fedora.im> !startmeeting fpc

2025-06-26 16:00:11 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-06-26 16:00:10 UTC
2025-06-26 16:00:11 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fpc'
2025-06-26 16:00:14 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2025-06-26 16:00:49 <@james:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-26 16:00:50 <@zodbot:fedora.im> James Antill (james)
2025-06-26 16:00:57 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Hello.
2025-06-26 16:01:04 <@limb:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-26 16:01:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Gwyn Ciesla (limb) - she / her / hers
2025-06-26 16:02:14 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-26 16:02:15 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2025-06-26 16:03:03 <@churchyard:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-26 16:03:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Miro Hrončok (churchyard) - he / him / his or they / them / theirs
2025-06-26 16:03:08 <@churchyard:fedora.im> did you miss me? :D
2025-06-26 16:03:33 <@churchyard:fedora.im> I haven't been around for a while and I thought let's see what's happening
2025-06-26 16:03:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-26 16:03:45 <@limb:fedora.im> Sure, but I know if I miss you I can just break the compose and I'll hear from you. ;)
2025-06-26 16:03:47 <@james:fedora.im> Of course!
2025-06-26 16:05:41 <@james:fedora.im> DC staging move for infra today, so I may be operating on about 25% brain ... apologies in advance.
2025-06-26 16:06:13 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2025-06-26 16:07:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm still recovering from jetlag and today's the day the lawnmowers are out in force, so I am definitely not at full capacity eitehr
2025-06-26 16:07:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm still recovering from jetlag and today's the day the lawnmowers are out in force, so I am definitely not at full capacity either
2025-06-26 16:08:18 <@limb:fedora.im> I feel that. Someone in my neighborhood is obsessed with their gas-powered leafblower. In JUNE.
2025-06-26 16:09:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> lawnmowing season starts in *May* here. two more months and I don't have to deal with this ever again :)
2025-06-26 16:10:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> leafblowers are the silliest because... unless you vacuum them up they just come back
2025-06-26 16:10:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> 
2025-06-26 16:10:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> but yeah there are villages around here that have banned gas-powered lawnmowers and leafblowers
2025-06-26 16:10:18 <@limb:fedora.im> YES
2025-06-26 16:10:43 <@limb:fedora.im> I have an electric mower and electric trimmer. The mower sounds like a slightly aggressive window fan. So nice. :)
2025-06-26 16:11:39 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR#1465 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1465
2025-06-26 16:12:38 <@tibbs:fedora.im> So this is one of those things that should certainly be documented, but I'm not sure that the packaging guidelines are the right place to do that.
2025-06-26 16:12:49 <@james:fedora.im> I think this is fine ... although using examples from haskell might get to me to downvote ;)
2025-06-26 16:13:14 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh, but I can't think of a better place off hand.
2025-06-26 16:13:44 <@limb:fedora.im> Honestly I use the guidelines as a howto sometimes. It's not a bad thing.
2025-06-26 16:15:42 <@tibbs:fedora.im> It's a comment on the quality of the distro documentation as a whole that you would need to go to the packaging guidelines to be told how to bootstrap a package in the buildsystem.
2025-06-26 16:16:22 <@tibbs:fedora.im> But yeah, there's not really a better place.  The instructions seem fine unless we want to macrotize out the reference to "f43".
2025-06-26 16:16:51 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> I'm not sure that a "typical session" involves `fedpkg import`
2025-06-26 16:17:14 <@tibbs:fedora.im> How did I not notice that.
2025-06-26 16:17:39 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> I like the intent behind this but the actual text needs work I think
2025-06-26 16:18:48 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> Also if we want to punt this out of guidelines, the maintainer docs would be a good place.  There's already side tag stuff there.
2025-06-26 16:18:48 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> 
2025-06-26 16:18:48 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Package_Update_Guide/#_using_macros_in_a_side_tag
2025-06-26 16:19:17 <@churchyard:fedora.im> I'd rtaher improve https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Package_Update_Guide/#_using_macros_in_a_side_tag
2025-06-26 16:19:21 <@churchyard:fedora.im> I'd rather improve https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Package\_Update\_Guide/#\_using\_macros\_in\_a\_side\_tag
2025-06-26 16:20:50 <@james:fedora.im> Jinx, or snap?
2025-06-26 16:21:23 <@churchyard:fedora.im> I'd also rather...
2025-06-26 16:21:42 <@james:fedora.im> Ahh, +1 the hidden third option ;)
2025-06-26 16:22:39 <@james:fedora.im> I'm fine saying whatever the example text is should go there instead ... anyone want to volunteer to close the PR and point to the above, etc?
2025-06-26 16:23:11 <@churchyard:fedora.im> the `fedpkg import` assumes we only bootstrap at import time
2025-06-26 16:23:49 <@churchyard:fedora.im> let me do this. I recently needed to explain it to semebody
2025-06-26 16:24:07 <@james:fedora.im> Sold!
2025-06-26 16:24:08 <@limb:fedora.im> I wish...
2025-06-26 16:24:22 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Is there something about bootstrapping which makes it necessary to use fedpkg import?  I can't think of one but maybe I'm missing something.
2025-06-26 16:24:59 <@limb:fedora.im> I think they're assuming a new package. That's all.
2025-06-26 16:26:57 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC#1467 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1467
2025-06-26 16:27:58 <@tibbs:fedora.im> It's again amazing to me that we would have to do this.
2025-06-26 16:28:03 <@churchyard:fedora.im> I agree with the sentiment but have not checked if there are hidden implications
2025-06-26 16:28:28 <@james:fedora.im> I'm confused ... don't out docs already say the right thing here?
2025-06-26 16:28:33 <@tibbs:fedora.im> But adding an "(including drop-ins)" at one place in the relevant guidelines doesn't hurt.
2025-06-26 16:28:42 <@james:fedora.im> People just didn't read them, or maybe are confused?
2025-06-26 16:29:28 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh, if that helps I don't mind adding two words ... I just feel like people didn't read the docs and went "oh, config. files go in `/etc`"
2025-06-26 16:29:31 <@tibbs:fedora.im> The guidelines are really clear that unit files have to be in a specific place.  But then drop-ins aren't unit files.
2025-06-26 16:30:06 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Though honestly just adding "including drop-ins" then implies that the drop-ins go directly into %_unitdir which is also wrong.  Ugh.
2025-06-26 16:35:22 <@james:fedora.im> I guess we could ask/ping the systemd people about what they want it to say?
2025-06-26 16:35:29 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Yes.
2025-06-26 16:35:35 <@limb:fedora.im> Makes sense.
2025-06-26 16:36:01 <@james:fedora.im> The other side would be to put a giant warning there saying "no Fedora packaged systemd config. files should go in `/etc`"
2025-06-26 16:41:32 <@james:fedora.im> I'll add a comment.
2025-06-26 16:41:35 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor
2025-06-26 16:44:17 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Nothing from me.
2025-06-26 16:44:29 <@tibbs:fedora.im> It's good to see Miro again, though.
2025-06-26 16:47:28 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> Somewhat related to a previous item, I was wondering if we should add a guideline that `~bootstrap` builds should not be pushed to repos
2025-06-26 16:48:26 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> I see this happen in epel a bit, where someone does a bootstrap build to turn off test deps, but then pushes out the results as-is.  To me that's not what bootstrap builds are for.
2025-06-26 16:49:11 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> Note I'm suggesting a SHOULD NOT, not a MUST NOT, so exceptions are fine
2025-06-26 16:50:21 <@james:fedora.im> I'm pretty sure we'll happily merge it if you do a PR ;)
2025-06-26 16:51:04 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> Yeah I can work on a pr, it's just the idea phase so far
2025-06-26 16:57:01 <@james:fedora.im> Okay, I'm going to end the meeting now ... Note that very likely I won't have brains/time to run the meeting next, as it'll be the prod infra. DC move.
2025-06-26 17:24:37 <@churchyard:fedora.im> don't we need to !endmeeting or something?
2025-06-26 17:37:53 <@james:fedora.im> !endmeeting