2025-09-24 15:30:49 <@marmijo:fedora.im> 
!startmeeting fedora_coreos_meeting
2025-09-24 15:30:51 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-09-24 15:30:49 UTC
2025-09-24 15:30:51 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_coreos_meeting'
2025-09-24 15:30:55 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !topic roll call
2025-09-24 15:33:06 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !hi
2025-09-24 15:33:08 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his
2025-09-24 15:33:24 <@siosm:matrix.org> !hi
2025-09-24 15:33:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Timothée Ravier (siosm) - he / him / his
2025-09-24 15:33:29 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> !hi
2025-09-24 15:33:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Yasmin Valim de Souza (ydesouza)
2025-09-24 15:34:23 <@hricky:fedora.im> !hi
2025-09-24 15:34:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his
2025-09-24 15:35:20 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !hi
2025-09-24 15:35:22 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jean-Baptiste Trystram (jbtrystram) - he / him / his
2025-09-24 15:36:19 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !topic Action items from last meeting
2025-09-24 15:37:09 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !info The normal community meeting was cancelled in favor of a live video meeting. no action items from the meeting on 2025-09-10. 
2025-09-24 15:37:22 <@aaradhak:matrix.org> !hi aaradhak
2025-09-24 15:37:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aashish Radhakrishnan (aaradhak)
2025-09-24 15:37:36 <@mnguyen:fedora.im> !hi mnguyen
2025-09-24 15:37:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michael Nguyen (mnguyen)
2025-09-24 15:37:40 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> marmijo: we should probably discuss that briefly
2025-09-24 15:37:56 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> we should have probably tried to figure out some action items there, so maybe let's do it now 
2025-09-24 15:39:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 5. start to investigate the leading option
2025-09-24 15:39:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 1. upload meeting recording somewhere
2025-09-24 15:39:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 2. reply to original invite with a link to the recording
2025-09-24 15:39:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 3. summarize discussion in https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/2006
2025-09-24 15:39:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 4. reach out to flatcar folks for input on what was discussed
2025-09-24 15:39:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I'm thinking:
2025-09-24 15:39:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-09-24 15:41:53 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I have to go, brb
2025-09-24 15:41:57 <@marmijo:fedora.im> That sounds good to me. Does anyone want to take on some of these items?
2025-09-24 15:43:15 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Is there a good place to do this? Preferably somewhere in the Fedora ecosystem?
2025-09-24 15:43:15 <@marmijo:fedora.im> 
2025-09-24 15:43:15 <@marmijo:fedora.im> > upload meeting recording somewhere
2025-09-24 15:43:59 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> I can work on that, but I was wondering the same, where we could upload this recodingo :)
2025-09-24 15:44:08 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> I can work on that, but I was wondering the same, where we could upload this recording :)
2025-09-24 15:44:51 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> ok back
2025-09-24 15:45:11 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> the reason I bring up the 1-5 above is if we don't follow up, it's like the meeting never happened
2025-09-24 15:45:48 <@marmijo:fedora.im> +1. we need to follow up and start the investigation
2025-09-24 15:45:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> https://dustymabe.fedorapeople.org/meetings/
2025-09-24 15:45:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-09-24 15:45:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I've uploading video meetings before to my fedorapeople space, so we can just keep using that
2025-09-24 15:46:10 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I'm guessing spresti has access to the meeting recording 
2025-09-24 15:47:12 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> pinged him.. he's trying to connect
2025-09-24 15:47:18 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> let's see if he sorts it out
2025-09-24 15:48:11 <@spresti:fedora.im> !hi spresti
2025-09-24 15:48:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Steven Presti (spresti)
2025-09-24 15:48:48 <@spresti:fedora.im> Yeah I have access to the recording; I was trying to figure out how to make it public; Its currently locked in redhat access only.
2025-09-24 15:49:34 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !action dustymabe will post the followup action item checklist to https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/2006 Yasmin will work with spresti on the action items. dustymabe will gain access to the recording and upload it to https://dustymabe.fedorapeople.org/meetings/
2025-09-24 15:49:43 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> sound good? 
2025-09-24 15:50:03 <@spresti:fedora.im> Yep sgtm
2025-09-24 15:50:11 <@marmijo:fedora.im> +1
2025-09-24 15:50:16 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> Thanks! +1
2025-09-24 15:50:34 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Thanks spresti and Yasmin Valim de Souza !
2025-09-24 15:51:08 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Let's move on to the next topic
2025-09-24 15:51:16 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !topic Review Fedora 43 Release Schedule
2025-09-24 15:51:24 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !link https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-43/f-43-key-tasks.html
2025-09-24 15:51:47 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !info Fedora 43 CoreOS beta was released in the `next` stream with version: `43.20250917.1.0`
2025-09-24 15:51:52 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/coreos@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/GK4RMQ3UFMLJGKMBUVTTWGNFVFNNSH5E/
2025-09-24 15:52:53 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Next up in the list is "Retire FTI packages in NEW state" which I don't think will affect our process
2025-09-24 15:53:14 <@marmijo:fedora.im> After that, we're looking at Final Freeze starting on `2025-10-07`
2025-09-24 15:55:38 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think on us right now is our testing. We have a test day/week ongoing this week. 
2025-09-24 15:57:16 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> Feel free to help to test this week! All info here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:Fedora_43_CoreOS 
2025-09-24 15:57:44 <@zodbot:fedora.im> dustymabe has already given cookies to ydesouza during the F42 timeframe
2025-09-24 15:57:49 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !info Fedora 43 CoreOS beta Test Week is ongoing. See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:Fedora_43_CoreOS for details and post test results here: https://testdays.fedoraproject.org/testday/6
2025-09-24 15:58:04 <@zodbot:fedora.im> marmijo has already given cookies to ydesouza during the F42 timeframe
2025-09-24 15:58:34 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @aaradhak:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
2025-09-24 15:58:58 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Alright, we have a few topics to cover today.
2025-09-24 15:59:04 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !topic Introducing the fcos-assistant Bot
2025-09-24 15:59:11 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1999
2025-09-24 16:00:32 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> Bring this topic again to discuss some concerns about the AI bot.
2025-09-24 16:01:43 <@spresti:fedora.im> Regarding Timothée Ravier (travier)'s worries, I think the issue is that the bot might be seen as a source of truth? which using a model which is not directly trained on our docs might mean hallucinations. Im not sure what the correct approch would be currently prompting is the easy route, do we use somthing like Ilab to train our own llm using docs? 
2025-09-24 16:02:21 <@spresti:fedora.im> The problem then becomes cost; 1. training and then 2. hosting said model 
2025-09-24 16:02:53 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> spresti: yes, cost, but more so 3. engineer $time
2025-09-24 16:03:56 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> IoW if it's decently good without having to invest more, that would be nice. But either way I think we'd be monitoring the performance of the bot here to see how useful or useless it is, and then decide how we wanted to proceed.
2025-09-24 16:04:34 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> definitely interested in Timothée Ravier (travier) speak here, though
2025-09-24 16:04:42 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> We had some experience training a model with only butane docs and took a really long time. So yeah, its a lot of investment. 
2025-09-24 16:05:37 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> semi-related: aaradhak and I did verify we were able to sign `coreosbot` FAS account into matrix and join a few channels. It's not wired up to any backend software at this point, but when we're ready we should be able to get a token and use that account.
2025-09-24 16:06:10 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> Yes, I am also worried about what Timothée Ravier (travier) comment that  the Fedora infra has been having trouble with agressive AI scrappers/bots. 
2025-09-24 16:06:51 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> I want to test it again to monitor the bot performance, but I need to talk with infra first :)
2025-09-24 16:08:02 <@spresti:fedora.im> Agreed, and we could maybe update the prompt to always indicate that it could be wrong and to do your own fact checking. 
2025-09-24 16:08:02 <@spresti:fedora.im> 
2025-09-24 16:08:02 <@spresti:fedora.im> Yasmin Valim de Souza Yeahhhh and I think it would be worse; We would want to train many more iter's and with more data, but maybe its gotten better? 
2025-09-24 16:08:02 <@spresti:fedora.im> Well AI goal is coming up (30th) should we try this now? Not sure of a possible negative that we cannot recover from?
2025-09-24 16:08:18 <@dustymabe:matrix.org>  if that is a problem we can just point the bot at github (which is the source of truth for our docs) 
2025-09-24 16:08:18 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-09-24 16:08:18 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> > Fedora infra has been having trouble with agressive AI scrappers/bots.
2025-09-24 16:08:18 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-09-24 16:08:30 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-09-24 16:08:30 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> > Fedora infra has been having trouble with agressive AI scrappers/bots.
2025-09-24 16:08:30 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> if that is a problem we can just point the bot at the github repo (which is the source of truth for our docs)
2025-09-24 16:09:50 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I mean, I'm open to still change with infra, but we have an alternative
2025-09-24 16:09:58 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I mean, I'm open to still change with infra, but we have an alternative and shouldn't be blocked by it
2025-09-24 16:10:46 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> I guess it's a good idea and we can use github for that, no problem :)
2025-09-24 16:11:08 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I can try to come up with a summary for us to past back to the ticket here if that would be useful? 
2025-09-24 16:11:34 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> Sure! 
2025-09-24 16:12:37 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> I will talk with you or Aashish Radhakrishnan to see how can I have access to the bot account and run a new test with a better prompt and having the github repo as source of true.
2025-09-24 16:13:22 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !proposed Without training our own model we can't guarantee answers to questions will only come from our docs, but we can include in the instructions to the LLM to only consider our docs as input and monitor the quality of the results to determine if they are useful or not. Based on that we can determine if we need to invest more in tuning. As for scraping our Fedora docs site aggressively, an alternative is to point the tool directly at our docs github repo, rather than the docs website.
2025-09-24 16:14:03 <@marmijo:fedora.im> +1
2025-09-24 16:14:07 <@aaradhak:matrix.org> +1
2025-09-24 16:14:08 <@ydesouza:fedora.im> +1
2025-09-24 16:15:24 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Any other votes for or against?
2025-09-24 16:15:55 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> +1
2025-09-24 16:16:02 <@mnguyen:fedora.im> +1
2025-09-24 16:16:16 <@hricky:fedora.im> +1
2025-09-24 16:17:08 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !agreed Without training our own model we can't guarantee answers to questions will only come from our docs, but we can include in the instructions to the LLM to only consider our docs as input and monitor the quality of the results to determine if they are useful or not. Based on that we can determine if we need to invest more in tuning. As for scraping our Fedora docs site aggressively, an alternative is to point the tool directly at our docs github repo, rather than the docs website.
2025-09-24 16:17:30 <@marmijo:fedora.im> 🧑‍⚖️
2025-09-24 16:18:20 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Are there any other comments, or more to discuss here? We have time for another topic.
2025-09-24 16:18:52 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !topic tracker: Fedora 43 changes considerations
2025-09-24 16:18:59 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1934
2025-09-24 16:19:24 <@marmijo:fedora.im> I ran the script and there were 3 new changes reported
2025-09-24 16:20:12 <@marmijo:fedora.im> change 238
2025-09-24 16:20:21 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FoomaticRipRejectsUnknownValues
2025-09-24 16:21:04 <@marmijo:fedora.im> I think there's no impact to FCOS here
2025-09-24 16:21:05 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> printer stuff? I think we can skip
2025-09-24 16:21:31 <@marmijo:fedora.im> 239
2025-09-24 16:21:35 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Greenboot_RS_Change_Proposal
2025-09-24 16:22:17 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> We don't ship greenboot, but have wanted to in the past 
2025-09-24 16:22:43 <@marmijo:fedora.im> okay, we can skip this one too
2025-09-24 16:23:15 <@marmijo:fedora.im> 240
2025-09-24 16:23:19 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NodejsAlternativesSystem
2025-09-24 16:23:29 <@marmijo:fedora.im> we can probably skip this too. we don't ship nodejs
2025-09-24 16:23:52 <@marmijo:fedora.im> And that's all for the new changes. Is there anything we need to discuss regarding the other changes in the list?
2025-09-24 16:24:14 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> +1
2025-09-24 16:24:17 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> thanks marmijo 
2025-09-24 16:24:33 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> pretty soon we'll be able to review F44 changes :) 
2025-09-24 16:25:33 <@marmijo:fedora.im> yeah! the cycle continues!
2025-09-24 16:27:09 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Let's move to open floor since we only have a few minutes left
2025-09-24 16:27:30 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor
2025-09-24 16:29:22 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> It's relatively minor, and we'll hopefully get it fixed before rolling it out to `testing` and `stable`. 
2025-09-24 16:29:22 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-09-24 16:29:22 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> There's one known issue from the recent container signing migration: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/2035
2025-09-24 16:29:40 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !info There's one known issue from the recent container signing migration: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/2035
2025-09-24 16:30:58 <@marmijo:fedora.im> Thanks all for joining! Have a great day!
2025-09-24 16:31:05 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !endmeeting