2025-09-30 14:59:41 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !startmeeting Fedora bootc Initiative
2025-09-30 14:59:43 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-09-30 14:59:41 UTC
2025-09-30 14:59:44 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora bootc Initiative'
2025-09-30 14:59:48 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !topic roll call
2025-09-30 14:59:52 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !hi
2025-09-30 14:59:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Laura Santamaria (nimbinatus) - she / her / hers
2025-09-30 15:00:21 <@hricky:fedora.im> !hi
2025-09-30 15:00:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his
2025-09-30 15:00:57 <@rsturla:fedora.im> !hi
2025-09-30 15:00:59 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (rsturla)
2025-09-30 15:01:01 <@jeckersb:fedora.im> !hi
2025-09-30 15:01:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Eckersberg (jeckersb)
2025-09-30 15:01:37 <@cverna_:matrix.org> !hi
2025-09-30 15:01:39 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Clement Verna (cverna) - he / him / his
2025-09-30 15:02:03 <@walters:fedora.im> !hi
2025-09-30 15:02:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Colin Walters (walters)
2025-09-30 15:02:14 <@jmarrero:matrix.org> !hi
2025-09-30 15:02:17 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Joseph Marrero (jmarrero)
2025-09-30 15:03:11 <@walters:fedora.im> on topics, we had discussed converging this meeting with the coreos one
2025-09-30 15:03:47 <@ferrory:matrix.org> Hi everyone
2025-09-30 15:06:41 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Colin Walters: We had the conversation last week, and I've got some updates from Jef
2025-09-30 15:06:48 <@walters:fedora.im> ah ok sorry I missed it!
2025-09-30 15:06:51 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Do we want to start with that?
2025-09-30 15:07:09 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !hi
2025-09-30 15:07:11 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his
2025-09-30 15:07:40 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !topic continuing the future of this initiative discussion
2025-09-30 15:08:42 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> So in discussing this with Jef Spaleta (tagging more for clarity versus trying to drag you in!), there's an interest in focusing on this initiative, specifically as image mode, for another year. I'm trying to dig out the notes from last week, as well...
2025-09-30 15:10:17 <@cverna_:matrix.org> I think it would make sense to consolidate in one meeting
2025-09-30 15:10:23 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> notes from last week: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/meeting-1_matrix_fedoraproject-org/2025-09-23/fedora-bootc-initiative.2025-09-23-15.00.log.html
2025-09-30 15:10:24 <@walters:fedora.im> One thing that has come up before related to this is what it'd look like to have images start out as bootc but make it easy to go back to package mode, it's quite doable, I filed https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1656 related to this
2025-09-30 15:14:04 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> This would be pretty cool, just from a perspective of being able to use the same boot image for either image mode or package mode
2025-09-30 15:14:28 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !link https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1656 (flipping from image model to package mode and back again)
2025-09-30 15:15:10 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-09-30 15:15:10 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> > and back again..
2025-09-30 15:15:10 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> future feature? or easy to do? 
2025-09-30 15:15:10 <@hricky:fedora.im> I think it would be good to extend the initiative for another year or so, because thanks to a post in the Fedora Discussion about the bootc initiative, I realized that it exists.
2025-09-30 15:15:48 <@walters:fedora.im> We do already have `bootc install to-existing-root` for the other way
2025-09-30 15:16:20 <@walters:fedora.im> Though some use cases will want more state perservation 
2025-09-30 15:17:42 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> As a note, regarding the initiative, I'm supposed to open a topic on Discussions to allow for chat on re-upping it before taking it to council. I'll switch the topic now :)
2025-09-30 15:17:50 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !action Laura to start the Discussions forum topic
2025-09-30 15:17:51 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !hi
2025-09-30 15:17:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (jlebon)
2025-09-30 15:18:06 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !topic bootc uninstall and install flipping
2025-09-30 15:19:58 <@jlebon:fedora.im> interesting idea.
2025-09-30 15:19:58 <@jlebon:fedora.im> though the nature of the discussions between these two meetings are quite different today. I think just from FCOS being much more mature at this point.
2025-09-30 15:19:58 <@jlebon:fedora.im> > on topics, we had discussed converging this meeting with the coreos one
2025-09-30 15:19:58 <@jlebon:fedora.im> 
2025-09-30 15:20:27 <@jlebon:fedora.im> not to say we can't do it of course, but i can certainly see people be much less interested in the more FCOS-specific topics
2025-09-30 15:20:38 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> ( 😂 I wish I could tell meetbot that there are two topics running simultaneously)
2025-09-30 15:20:47 <@jlebon:fedora.im> sorry for being off-topic :|
2025-09-30 15:20:54 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> You're not!
2025-09-30 15:21:00 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> It's just that there's two threads going on
2025-09-30 15:21:12 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we can pick that one up after this one
2025-09-30 15:22:02 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Regarding the initiative, yes, the concern is that there's more to FCOS discussions than just Image Mode, and IoT also has some Image Mode things, so the thought was those are SIGs (or what SIGs are here?) and then Image Mode is an overarching initiative for 44 and 45
2025-09-30 15:22:08 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> (a timeboxed activity)
2025-09-30 15:22:10 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think the important feature would be being able to take an image mode system into a package mode one.. going the other way I think would be harder and probably better as a future feature. bootc install-to-filesystem is an escape hatch here, but not exactly `going back` IMHO 
2025-09-30 15:24:20 <@walters:fedora.im> I do hope to also increase alignment (esp build systems/releng) with the atomic desktops too 
2025-09-30 15:25:18 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> When I open the topic in the forum, I'll post it to #bootc:fedoraproject.org , for sure. I would love everyone chiming in with thoughts and plans
2025-09-30 15:26:30 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> All right! Do you all want to talk about the install/uninstall thing, coreos things, something else?
2025-09-30 15:26:58 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> (I'm also in another meeting, so if you switch topics and I haven't caught up, please feel free to manage meetbot :D
2025-09-30 15:28:16 <@walters:fedora.im> so there wasn't a conclusion though on the coreos meeting convergence?
2025-09-30 15:28:33 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I can chime in on that topic.
2025-09-30 15:29:02 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think I agree with jlebon here. We're often pretty in the weeds in the FCOS weekly meetings. I don't think (at least today) it makes sense to try to combine them
2025-09-30 15:29:29 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I ultimately don't want that the be the case
2025-09-30 15:29:42 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> but when talking about higher level bootc things and the future, that's why I show up here :) 
2025-09-30 15:29:43 <@cverna_:matrix.org> We could adjust cadences? or alternate?
2025-09-30 15:29:52 <@walters:fedora.im> ok
2025-09-30 15:30:24 <@cverna_:matrix.org> Like weekly Image Mode meeting and bi-weekly coreos? or something like that?
2025-09-30 15:30:54 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Clément Verna: are we just trying to reduce the number of meetings for people? right now we have both and people can join both if they are interested? 
2025-09-30 15:32:08 <@cverna_:matrix.org> dustymabe: that's one aspect but I think it is useful to consolidate on Image Mode, even more as FCOS is converging more and more
2025-09-30 15:32:43 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I agree, but also think it will naturally phase itself out (i.e. less topics in that meeting) 
2025-09-30 15:32:52 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> I think we also need to consider whomever is working on IoT and Atomic Desktop here and their meetings, too, right?
2025-09-30 15:32:55 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I agree, but also think it will naturally phase itself out (i.e. less topics in the coreos meeting over time) 
2025-09-30 15:32:57 <@jlebon:fedora.im> this discussion probably deserves higher bandwidth. i don't think it's really just about meetings
2025-09-30 15:33:33 <@jlebon:fedora.im> how we meet is just a reflection of how we're structured. and i think the implication of the discussion here is that we want to change how we're structured
2025-09-30 15:34:01 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> How about we discuss cadences and meetings, along with the structure, as part of the discussion thread in the forum? I will finally have time to write all that out this afternoon (collect all of the various meeting notes I've had, all of the random discussions, put it into a coherent whole, etc.), so we'll have all of the info in one place to kick off discussions.
2025-09-30 15:37:47 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> > How about we discuss cadences and meetings, along with the structure,
2025-09-30 15:37:47 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-09-30 15:37:47 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think a better forum for that would be a high bandwidth video meeting
2025-09-30 15:37:54 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> there are a lot of implications
2025-09-30 15:38:32 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> so who should be at that meeting? Should there be a rep from Council, too? Who from the other various groups who have Image Mode interest should be there?
2025-09-30 15:39:17 <@cverna_:matrix.org> A discussion post is also more inclusive, maybe we start with a forum post and have a call if needed.
2025-09-30 15:39:19 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Invite everyone?? but make an effort to have various groups represented? 
2025-09-30 15:39:24 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> (tagging Jason Brooks in as awareness, since this is technically his sponsorship)
2025-09-30 15:40:07 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> I do have to make that discussion post regardless, to clarify. It's been on my to-dos for a few days now
2025-09-30 15:49:27 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> looks like we've slowed down. Any other topics, or shall I let this meeting end early?
2025-09-30 15:49:40 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Nothing from my side
2025-09-30 15:51:06 <@walters:fedora.im> i don't have anything else today, thanks for the discussion all
2025-09-30 15:57:11 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !endmeeting