2025-10-21 15:00:01 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !startmeeting Fedora Image Mode Initiative
2025-10-21 15:00:04 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-10-21 15:00:01 UTC
2025-10-21 15:00:04 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora Image Mode Initiative'
2025-10-21 15:00:16 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !topic roll call
2025-10-21 15:00:19 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !hi
2025-10-21 15:00:22 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Laura Santamaria (nimbinatus) - she / her / hers
2025-10-21 15:00:25 <@jeckersb:fedora.im> !hi
2025-10-21 15:00:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Eckersberg (jeckersb)
2025-10-21 15:00:42 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> (roll call until ~:05 or :10 :) )
2025-10-21 15:00:43 <@hricky:fedora.im> !hi
2025-10-21 15:00:45 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his
2025-10-21 15:02:03 <@jmarrero:matrix.org> !hi
2025-10-21 15:02:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Joseph Marrero (jmarrero)
2025-10-21 15:02:18 <@rsturla:fedora.im> !hi
2025-10-21 15:02:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (rsturla)
2025-10-21 15:02:54 <@walters:fedora.im> !hi
2025-10-21 15:02:56 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Colin Walters (walters)
2025-10-21 15:03:04 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> !hi
2025-10-21 15:03:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Sean Thrailkill (snthrailkill)
2025-10-21 15:05:04 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> I think I shall call quorum (but if you join late, feel free to mark yourself present!). Let's start the shenanigans :D
2025-10-21 15:05:04 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> I've got a couple topics I'm still pulling out of the last couple meetings, but we'll start with the initiative renewal thread!
2025-10-21 15:05:04 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> 
2025-10-21 15:05:11 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !topic Initiative renewal
2025-10-21 15:05:23 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/renewing-the-fedora-bootc-now-image-mode-initiative/167131
2025-10-21 15:06:03 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> So, the thread is still very active, but I wanted to ask here if there's anything folks want to highlight as the main work items/goal posts for the initiative in the next year
2025-10-21 15:06:17 <@jharmison:fedora.im> !hi
2025-10-21 15:06:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (jharmison)
2025-10-21 15:06:19 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> I've got a couple, but I want to hear some of your thoughts :)
2025-10-21 15:06:44 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Remember that an initiative doesn't own code, so we're trying to figure out how to help stakeholders figure out what work needs to get done.
2025-10-21 15:11:23 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Here's some thoughts to get the gears moving:
2025-10-21 15:11:23 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> - Naming things is always hard, so part of this is defining what we need to call this thing to work for both the current community and potential community members. Stakeholders: Fedora Marketing, ?
2025-10-21 15:11:23 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> - Pipeline definitions are needed to decide how to set up build systems with Konflux to best serve the Fedora community. Build universal templates to make it easier for someone to generate an image that's exactly what they want. Stakeholders: CoreOS, Packaging, ?
2025-10-21 15:11:23 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> - ???
2025-10-21 15:13:01 <@walters:fedora.im> seems like there's some overall agreement, nothing blocks experimentation here at all
2025-10-21 15:14:40 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> I'm mainly trying to have a nice clean set of goals to present to the Council so we can get moving. I think we're all in alignment overall; it's mainly picking the specific goal posts and defining who we need to talk with and ensure is in the conversation. I think having that will make approval quick and ensure that we get the support we need to push forward and get to a great spot for 44 and then full production mode by 45
2025-10-21 15:15:32 <@jharmison:fedora.im> - I don't think I have much input on how to pipeline things, as an outsider. I would like to see consolidation to increase the CI surface, generally speaking.
2025-10-21 15:15:32 <@jharmison:fedora.im> - The name "Image Mode" is fine to me, I don't know if a cool project code name or something would be more interesting. It's adequately descriptive of the methodology. I don't have a strong opinion.
2025-10-21 15:15:32 <@jharmison:fedora.im> 
2025-10-21 15:15:32 <@jharmison:fedora.im> Outsider PoV:
2025-10-21 15:16:38 <@jharmison:fedora.im> The "bootimages" discussion seems relevant to get consensus on:
2025-10-21 15:16:38 <@jharmison:fedora.im> https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/77
2025-10-21 15:16:38 <@jharmison:fedora.im> 
2025-10-21 15:17:18 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !link https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/77
2025-10-21 15:20:08 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Seeing Atomic Desktops having a critical bug preventing basic operations, and it not being considered a blocker for F43 releases makes me question how serious Fedora is about the 2028(?) strategy of making it a primary experience.
2025-10-21 15:20:08 <@rsturla:fedora.im> 
2025-10-21 15:20:08 <@rsturla:fedora.im> I think if the goal is for "image mode" to be a first-class citizen by F45 (which is how I understood this comment), we'll want to bump projects based on Bootc higher up the list in terms of release importance (importance is definitely not the right word here...  But can't think of a better one).
2025-10-21 15:20:44 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Sorry to be so blunt
2025-10-21 15:21:30 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Don't be sorry! Sometimes we need to be clear about what's concerning.
2025-10-21 15:21:38 <@walters:fedora.im> Yeah that's fair, gating CI there has been lacking a long time and is way overdue
2025-10-21 15:22:07 <@rsturla:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1936
2025-10-21 15:22:07 <@rsturla:fedora.im> 
2025-10-21 15:22:07 <@rsturla:fedora.im> The bug in question
2025-10-21 15:23:00 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !note Dealing with gating CI and critical bugs being part of a blocker list for major releases in bootc-generated artifacts is part of the goals for the initiative
2025-10-21 15:23:15 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> ah, shoot, wrong comman
2025-10-21 15:23:16 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> ah, shoot, wrong command
2025-10-21 15:23:21 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !info Dealing with gating CI and critical bugs being part of a blocker list for major releases in bootc-generated artifacts is part of the goals for the initiative
2025-10-21 15:23:54 <@hricky:fedora.im> IMHO image mode (based) systems and Fedora QA(E) is a pretty tough topic.
2025-10-21 15:25:21 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> So how can we break down that topic into manageable chunks that we can solve? Is it getting people in the same space to talk things out? Is it setting up infrastructure to test things on that we can eventually move to production (the "sandbox/experimentation" space idea)?
2025-10-21 15:25:33 <@walters:fedora.im> Yeah but we can't block on tough problems, and I think it's time
2025-10-21 15:26:25 <@walters:fedora.im> There's a ton of factors here but probably the largest is that CoreOS occupied most of the Fedora-image-based-testing space and crucially has its own package gating, that Atomic Desktops don't
2025-10-21 15:27:05 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Hmm... And on top of that, we also have a scenario where the Atomic Desktops aren't officially supported by a full team, right?
2025-10-21 15:27:50 <@walters:fedora.im> yeah, the organizational divisions I think have not always been helpful
2025-10-21 15:29:34 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> All right, so that's a need
2025-10-21 15:29:50 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !info Handle the situation that CoreOS occupied most of the Fedora-image-based-testing space and crucially has its own package gating, that Atomic Desktops don't
2025-10-21 15:30:21 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !info Try to fix the scenario where there are organizational divisions causing the base images to not be officially supported by a full team (let's fix the SPOF situation!)
2025-10-21 15:33:01 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> I've noticed a few folks typing. Any other thoughts on this topic?
2025-10-21 15:33:14 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> (I'll wait for another 5-10 minutes before moving to the next agenda topic :) )
2025-10-21 15:43:28 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> all right, let's move on :)
2025-10-21 15:43:43 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !topic CoreOS Convergence
2025-10-21 15:46:46 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Any thoughts? Otherwise, I can do open floor or we can close out
2025-10-21 15:49:04 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> Are there any CoreOS people here today?
2025-10-21 15:50:50 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> There might not be. 
2025-10-21 15:51:06 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !topic open floor
2025-10-21 15:51:34 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> last call for thoughts and conversations! I'll give y'all time back if everything is good and quiet (feel free to leave me a thumbs up on this message if you don't have anything specific to bring up)
2025-10-21 15:54:50 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> 
2025-10-21 15:54:50 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> Do we have any thoughts on this kind of approach? Apparently going from OCI image to disk image is a barrier for some people.
2025-10-21 15:54:50 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> Ive heard from a couple people now about bootc having a simple disk image that anyone can install easily and then just bootc switch to whatever image they want. 
2025-10-21 15:54:50 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> 
2025-10-21 15:54:50 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> Jef even kinda proposed using something like this as a universal installer format. 
2025-10-21 15:57:19 <@hricky:fedora.im> Currently, this can be done using Atomic Desktops.
2025-10-21 15:57:36 <@jharmison:fedora.im> Should be documented!
2025-10-21 15:57:55 <@jharmison:fedora.im> (Officially)
2025-10-21 15:57:58 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> This is true! It can be done on anything that ships the "bootc" binary. 
2025-10-21 16:00:07 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> Unfortunately I'm going to have to shut down the meeting here in a moment. Do we want to continue the conversation in #bootc:fedoraproject.org ?
2025-10-21 16:01:51 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !endmeeting