2026-01-14 18:00:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2026-01-14)
2026-01-14 18:00:59 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2026-01-14 18:00:57 UTC
2026-01-14 18:00:59 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2026-01-14)'
2026-01-14 18:01:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2026-01-14 18:01:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2026-01-14 18:01:06 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now epel
2026-01-14 18:01:16 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2026-01-14 18:01:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2026-01-14 18:01:39 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> !hi
2026-01-14 18:01:40 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2026-01-14 18:02:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2026-01-14 18:02:13 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2026-01-14 18:02:31 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2026-01-14 18:02:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2026-01-14 18:02:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Robby Callicotte Carl George Michel Lind UTC Diego Herrera 
2026-01-14 18:03:33 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2026-01-14 18:04:03 <@elguero:fedora.im> !hi
2026-01-14 18:04:04 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michael Young (elguero)
2026-01-14 18:05:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Michael L. Young
2026-01-14 18:05:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Morning nirik 
2026-01-14 18:06:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/epel/docs/pulls
2026-01-14 18:06:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2026-01-14 18:06:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2026-01-14 18:06:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !epel 322
2026-01-14 18:06:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 10 months ago by tdawson
2026-01-14 18:06:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2026-01-14 18:06:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 16 hours ago
2026-01-14 18:06:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **epel #322** (https://pagure.io/epel/issue/322):**Document EPEL policy on packages with epel in the name**
2026-01-14 18:06:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2026-01-14 18:07:11 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We do have one issue marked with meeting.  Although this iis an older issue, it hasn't been resolved and the problem came up again.
2026-01-14 18:07:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We do have one issue marked with meeting.  Although this is an older issue, it hasn't been resolved and the problem came up again.
2026-01-14 18:07:58 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> fwiw, the conversation around gdal-epel has shifted and now the maintainer is going to make a gdal3.4 package instead, but we should still firm up our guidelines around it
2026-01-14 18:08:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That's good to hear.
2026-01-14 18:08:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> in some ways a versioned one is not as good, but I guess it depends on what we want to convey...
2026-01-14 18:10:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Well, they were going above and beyond just "adding back the packages that weren't in RHEL"
2026-01-14 18:10:25 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> where my head is at is we could adjust the policy to say that the -epel suffix is reserved for shipping missing rhel subpackages, and any other use needs an approved exception from esc
2026-01-14 18:11:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, although having some indicator in the package name that it's a epel provided complete (or more complete) version over the rhel one might have some value...
2026-01-14 18:11:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> are there any -epel packages currently that are not just shipping missing packages?
2026-01-14 18:12:35 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> there was an selinux one, but they changed coursed and made it -extras and put it in crb instead.  i'm struggling to think of any others.
2026-01-14 18:13:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Looking at binary packages, for epel10, the only ones are the macro packages.
2026-01-14 18:13:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> The same for epel9, except python3.11-pyasn1-epel-doc
2026-01-14 18:14:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> epel8 has a few python packages that have epel in the name ... oh, and perl-generators-epel
2026-01-14 18:14:59 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> I thought there was an selinux one as well
2026-01-14 18:15:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So it looks like we're getting more and more to our ideal ... though I haven't checked the source rpm names.
2026-01-14 18:15:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> The selinux one got pulled back into RHEL.
2026-01-14 18:15:27 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Just adjusting the policy as Carl George suggested probibly is the easiest way forward...
2026-01-14 18:17:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I was looking to see if there was a pull request already, but I'm not seeing one.
2026-01-14 18:17:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Do we have a volunteer to write up the first draft for the clarification of the policy?
2026-01-14 18:18:18 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> as it's my suggestion i guess i'm the default to submit a pr
2026-01-14 18:18:31 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> any thoughts on what page it should go on?
2026-01-14 18:18:52 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i was thinking perhaps a note block on https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy-missing-sub-packages/
2026-01-14 18:18:54 <@dherrera:fedora.im> "guidelines and policies" I imagine
2026-01-14 18:19:02 <@dherrera:fedora.im> yeah
2026-01-14 18:19:05 <@dherrera:fedora.im> that makes sense
2026-01-14 18:19:16 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> yeah this page is under that section, but i could also see it going on the top level policy page
2026-01-14 18:20:25 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i'll work up a pr to one of those, depending on how it fits as i write it
2026-01-14 18:20:56 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think the top page (If you don't mind, that would be great ) just after the "Conflict" sections, so right above here - https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy/#policy_for_orphan_and_retired_packages
2026-01-14 18:21:01 <@dherrera:fedora.im> hmm... I feel that it makes more sense to add it at the top level considering that it's relevant to know when deciding how to package
2026-01-14 18:21:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think the top page ( https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy/) just after the "Conflict" sections, so right above here - https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy/#policy\_for\_orphan\_and\_retired\_packages
2026-01-14 18:21:36 <@dherrera:fedora.im> yes! what troy said :D
2026-01-14 18:22:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry for that wierd line in the middle, my cut and paste grabbed what I just deleted before I clicked send ... 
2026-01-14 18:23:11 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> sounds good
2026-01-14 18:23:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you Carl George , for working on that, as well as talking to the gdal people.
2026-01-14 18:23:59 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> it's been an adventure
2026-01-14 18:24:10 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> and it ain't over 😁
2026-01-14 18:24:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else before we move on?
2026-01-14 18:25:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> There aren't any other things marked with meeting for issues or pull requests, so moving on.
2026-01-14 18:26:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2026-01-14 18:26:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have any Old Business?
2026-01-14 18:27:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> I’m old and I have a business 😛
2026-01-14 18:27:24 <@dherrera:fedora.im> I have a kinda old business, but more of an open question, so Michel Lind UTC can go firsr :)
2026-01-14 18:27:46 <@dherrera:fedora.im> I have a kinda old business, but more of an open question, so Michel Lind UTC can go first:)
2026-01-14 18:27:51 <@dherrera:fedora.im> I have a kinda old business, but more of an open question, so Michel Lind UTC can go first :)
2026-01-14 18:28:12 <@dherrera:fedora.im> (unless that was a joke ;D)
2026-01-14 18:28:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think Michel Lind UTC was just making a joke.   Go for it Diego Herrera 
2026-01-14 18:28:57 <@dherrera:fedora.im> ok :) just wanted to ask on what do we need to move the EPEL issue tracker to the new forge :o
2026-01-14 18:29:23 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> !epel 355
2026-01-14 18:29:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 3 months ago by dherrera
2026-01-14 18:29:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **epel #355** (https://pagure.io/epel/issue/355):**Transition from Pagure to Forgejo instance**
2026-01-14 18:29:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2026-01-14 18:29:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 3 months ago
2026-01-14 18:29:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2026-01-14 18:29:39 <@dherrera:fedora.im> I remember that there were questions in regards to redirecting old issues between trackers, but just wanted a refresher on this topic
2026-01-14 18:29:41 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> When is FOSDEM/Connect?  Would it be ok to transition it afterwards?
2026-01-14 18:30:24 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> jan 29 to feb 1
2026-01-14 18:30:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> FOSDEM/Connect is in two weeks (Jan 29 - Feb 1) ... 
2026-01-14 18:30:49 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i'm ok with that as a timeline, aiming for the first week of feb
2026-01-14 18:30:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I don't think we could transition it before even if we wanted to ... just due to the amount of work .... I think ... I not the one doing the work, so that's what I think.
2026-01-14 18:31:11 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i don't think we have any blockers, it's just when we're ready to pull the trigger
2026-01-14 18:31:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> But ya, saying after that is fine with me.
2026-01-14 18:32:02 <@dherrera:fedora.im> I can bring up the topic again by then ^^
2026-01-14 18:32:06 <@dherrera:fedora.im> that would be it :)
2026-01-14 18:32:18 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> :)
2026-01-14 18:33:20 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> just do it on feb 2-3, then let us know it's done at the meeting on feb 4
2026-01-14 18:34:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll put it on the agenda for Feb 4 ... if it's done, great, if not, let us know the progress.
2026-01-14 18:35:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2026-01-14 18:35:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2026-01-14 18:35:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Diego Herrera: Was there anything specific you needed?  Or do you have all the information you need?
2026-01-14 18:35:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Conan Kudo 
2026-01-14 18:37:18 <@dherrera:fedora.im> no, I just wanted to know how to push this forward, since we already have the docs there :), but if ya'll are ok with me pushing this, I'll just push the issues into a new repo as we discussed last time. unless you'd prefer for me to write-up the process for approval before proceeding
2026-01-14 18:38:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I don't know about the others, but I trust you, do what you need/want to do, no approval from me needed.
2026-01-14 18:38:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> Yeah mine is more an open floor fyi / question
2026-01-14 18:38:51 <@dherrera:fedora.im> 👍️ I'll work on it then
2026-01-14 18:39:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you Diego Herrera 
2026-01-14 18:39:39 <@tdawson:fedora.im> If that is the only Old Business, then I'll move to Open Floor.
2026-01-14 18:39:49 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor
2026-01-14 18:40:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michel Lind UTC: Go for it.
2026-01-14 18:41:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> Ok - Carl and I have a change proposal pending for Django 6.x
2026-01-14 18:41:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> 
2026-01-14 18:41:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> The plan is to bring it to epel10 and we will cross the bridge when it comes to incompat update for ashore
2026-01-14 18:42:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> But one bigger question is - when Django 4 which is in EPEL 9 EOLs, what do we do on that major release? The updates to key components needed will be more invasive still
2026-01-14 18:42:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> Asgiref
2026-01-14 18:42:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> Sorry taking this from my phone
2026-01-14 18:43:02 <@tdawson:fedora.im> What do you mean by "key components needed" ?  Do you mean packages that depend on it?  Or packages needed to maintain it?
2026-01-14 18:43:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> Packages Django depend on
2026-01-14 18:43:53 <@salimma:fedora.im> For anything depending on Django I wouldn’t worry, we can maintain parallel Django stacks and will only retire the old one if there’s a bad CVE anyway
2026-01-14 18:44:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> Eg for rawhide we needed asgiref and aiosmtpd to be updated
2026-01-14 18:47:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry, it took me a while to understand.  So you are planning on bringing Django 6 into epel9, but to do that you will need to update the dependencies, that the current Django4 depend on.   Is that the problem?
2026-01-14 18:47:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> We are bringing Django 6 to f44 and epel10
2026-01-14 18:47:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> Epel10 has no Django now, epel9 has 4.2 which will hit EOL sooner 
2026-01-14 18:48:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> April 2026 actually
2026-01-14 18:48:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I guess I'm not seeing the problem, if you are planning on keeping Django4 in epel9.
2026-01-14 18:48:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> We cannot as soon as there is a major cve
2026-01-14 18:48:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> And Django 4 powers our mailing list infra
2026-01-14 18:48:51 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oof
2026-01-14 18:49:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> So this is out of scope of the change proposal I filed but is related, what happens if we need to bring a newer Django for el9
2026-01-14 18:49:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> 5.2 is supported until 2028 but I suspect on 9 we will also need a bunch of incompat updates, at which point bringing in the latest might be better
2026-01-14 18:50:22 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> django4.2 deps look pretty minimal in the package metadata, just asigref and sqlparse.  does it get worse in django6?
2026-01-14 18:50:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> So far it’s only aiosmtpd but I guess I can do a copr ahead of time to be sure
2026-01-14 18:50:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> And I think I might have to disable or update selenium for testing
2026-01-14 18:52:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ya, I think copr would be your friend.  It might be simple, or it might be complicated, but you won't know until you give it a try.
2026-01-14 18:52:58 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> yeah map it out first to see what we're working with.  i think it will vary a bit component to component.  asgiref for example looks like it will be an easy bugfix-only upgrade to the latest version.  other component may be more complicated and might require compat packages.
2026-01-14 18:53:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> Compat for Python will be fun
2026-01-14 18:53:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> Ok, will do. This is just a heads up fwiw 
2026-01-14 18:53:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> So we’re not caught unaware come April
2026-01-14 18:53:56 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> they're not too bad, alternate name and then conflict with the main one
2026-01-14 18:54:02 <@salimma:fedora.im> I’ll announce the copr on the mailing list and the contingency plan
2026-01-14 18:54:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> Yeah worst case we make sure our mailing list servers don’t need both set of conflicting packages
2026-01-14 18:54:56 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> disabling some tests is also reasonable if the problem package is just a test dep
2026-01-14 18:54:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> eg mistune08 vs mistune was a bit painful
2026-01-14 18:55:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Before time runs out, does anyone else have anything for Open Floor?
2026-01-14 18:56:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Out of curiosity, how many here are going to make it to CentOS Connect/FOSDOM in two weeks?
2026-01-14 18:56:40 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> not me :(
2026-01-14 18:57:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm wondering if we need to cancel the Jan 28th meeting.  (Not next week, but the week after)
2026-01-14 18:57:26 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i'll be there
2026-01-14 18:57:40 <@elguero:fedora.im> I am going to be there. Looking forward to meeting some folks in person.
2026-01-14 18:58:01 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> at connect/fosdem i mean, and thus will likely miss the jan 28th meeting
2026-01-14 18:58:20 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> that will be a setup day for connect, so not sure how busy i'll be
2026-01-14 18:58:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> We also canceled Hyperscale meeting for the same reason
2026-01-14 18:58:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michael L. Young: Cool.  I'll finally be able to mee you.
2026-01-14 18:58:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michael L. Young: Cool.  I'll finally be able to meet you.
2026-01-14 18:58:46 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> I'm ok with us cancelling due to fosdem
2026-01-14 18:59:11 <@dherrera:fedora.im> I don't mind cancelling either :)
2026-01-14 18:59:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'll be at FOSDEM
2026-01-14 18:59:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and Connect
2026-01-14 18:59:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte: I'm sorry you won't be there, but I'll see what flights look like for making it to Texas LinuxFest this year.
2026-01-14 19:00:14 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> Aww yeah!!
2026-01-14 19:00:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Looks like our time is up for this week.
2026-01-14 19:00:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> See y’all in person in two weeks!
2026-01-14 19:00:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for the great discussions today.  And thank you all for all you do for EPEL and it's community.  You're a great bunch of people to work with.
2026-01-14 19:01:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll talk to ya'll next week, if not sooner.
2026-01-14 19:01:22 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> Bye everyone!
2026-01-14 19:01:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting