2026-02-24 17:01:51 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !startmeeting ELN SIG 24 Feb '26
2026-02-24 17:01:52 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2026-02-24 17:01:51 UTC
2026-02-24 17:01:52 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'ELN SIG 24 Feb '26'
2026-02-24 17:01:56 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !meetingname eln
2026-02-24 17:01:57 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now eln
2026-02-24 17:02:02 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Init process
2026-02-24 17:02:05 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !hi
2026-02-24 17:02:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
2026-02-24 17:03:09 <@jligon:matrix.org> !hi
2026-02-24 17:03:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @jligon:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
2026-02-24 17:03:55 <@elguero:fedora.im> !hi
2026-02-24 17:03:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michael Young (elguero)
2026-02-24 17:04:00 <@jligon:matrix.org> well then I need to do that!
2026-02-24 17:04:31 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> hello Stephen Gallagher jligon Michael L. Young 
2026-02-24 17:04:58 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> let's get started, hopefully more people will come
2026-02-24 17:05:16 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic bootc images
2026-02-24 17:05:19 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/214
2026-02-24 17:05:42 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> jligon anything to discuss here?
2026-02-24 17:06:16 <@jligon:matrix.org> I made a pr for the bootc team
2026-02-24 17:06:24 <@jligon:matrix.org> no one has reviewed it yet
2026-02-24 17:06:30 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> link?
2026-02-24 17:06:50 <@jligon:matrix.org> not sure if its even right or what to do next, but I'm patient and tenacious
2026-02-24 17:07:09 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> link?
2026-02-24 17:08:06 <@jligon:matrix.org> https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/base-images/-/merge_requests/377
2026-02-24 17:08:21 <@jligon:matrix.org> should have added it to the GitHub issue as well, sorry
2026-02-24 17:08:50 <@jligon:matrix.org> !hi
2026-02-24 17:08:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @jligon:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
2026-02-24 17:09:08 <@jligon:matrix.org> grrr
2026-02-24 17:09:08 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> yes if you could please
2026-02-24 17:09:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2026-02-24 17:09:17 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2026-02-24 17:09:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> jligon: It may take time to sync
2026-02-24 17:09:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> sorry, got sidetracked (I'm here until half past)
2026-02-24 17:10:05 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> thanks jligon for the PR, I'll try to take a look at it later
2026-02-24 17:10:27 <@jligon:matrix.org> tyvm!
2026-02-24 17:10:28 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/base-images/-/merge_requests/377
2026-02-24 17:10:40 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info draft PR posted, needs review
2026-02-24 17:10:49 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anything else on that?
2026-02-24 17:11:19 <@jligon:matrix.org> I don't think so, just waiting
2026-02-24 17:11:49 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ok we'll follow up in the PR and ticket, thanks for getting the ball rolling
2026-02-24 17:12:06 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Michel Lind UTC welcome, anything in particular you wanted to raise today?
2026-02-24 17:12:12 <@jligon:matrix.org> thanks for considering it!
2026-02-24 17:12:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> nothing much, just trying to keep up with what's going on
2026-02-24 17:13:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> I will have some PRs updating our workload soon but that's probably next week
2026-02-24 17:13:28 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> sounds good
2026-02-24 17:14:02 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic ELN Hyperscale
2026-02-24 17:14:08 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/446
2026-02-24 17:14:35 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> this was raised by Conan Kudo last week, and we've had some discussion in the ticket
2026-02-24 17:14:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah good timing :)
2026-02-24 17:14:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2026-02-24 17:14:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2026-02-24 17:15:07 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> this seems doable, a few technical things we need to work out on our end
2026-02-24 17:16:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, if the modules are not shipped anyway as long as this does not block builds hopefully it's accepted?
2026-02-24 17:16:50 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> so they've added btrfs_fs.ko (sp?) to kernel-modules-internal only for x86_64
2026-02-24 17:17:02 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> if they were to do the same for aarch64, would that suffice?
2026-02-24 17:17:05 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> btrfs.ko, but yes
2026-02-24 17:17:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for now, yes
2026-02-24 17:17:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> for hyperscale aarch64 is enough, yes
2026-02-24 17:17:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but I think we're also interested in riscv64 too
2026-02-24 17:17:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> kmod SIG might want more :P
2026-02-24 17:17:34 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> hyperscale is just x86_64 and aarch64 right?
2026-02-24 17:17:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for EL11 we may add riscv64
2026-02-24 17:17:54 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> riscv64 is a whole different discussion
2026-02-24 17:18:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes, but the configs exist in ARK :)
2026-02-24 17:18:16 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> wrt ELN I'm not sure we can do much about that right now, since they're not tracking rawhide
2026-02-24 17:18:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but at least for the moment, yes adding aarch64 works
2026-02-24 17:18:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the general ask for all arches is because Hyperscale also helps out with the kmods SIG btrfs support
2026-02-24 17:19:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and they ship to all EL arches
2026-02-24 17:19:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but as a first step x86_64 and aarch64 works
2026-02-24 17:19:37 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> I have no say over ARK but that seems like a reasonable ask you could handle with an MR?
2026-02-24 17:19:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> (Kmods SIG takes the code from CentOS/RHEL kernel, hence why it is of interest)
2026-02-24 17:19:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2026-02-24 17:20:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think Davide Cavalca was going to file a ticket about that this week
2026-02-24 17:21:06 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> so this is another question I have here, there are other centos SIGs with sometimes overlapping packagesets, is there a way to avoid having dozens of ELN configurations to cover all of these?
2026-02-24 17:21:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> he's much better at this sort of thing than I am :)
2026-02-24 17:21:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Yes. Alt Images, Hyperscale, Virt, and Kmods have overlapping package and image sets
2026-02-24 17:22:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> can we just have a script that combines all the packages listed in several sets?
2026-02-24 17:22:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> generally speaking, we can rationalize them
2026-02-24 17:22:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> or once more than one workload adds something then we move it to a common set
2026-02-24 17:22:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> from the ELN context, Hyperscale is generally a superset of what everyone else does
2026-02-24 17:23:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> in terms of packaging and functionality
2026-02-24 17:23:26 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> but not entirely, e.g. virt-power
2026-02-24 17:23:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2026-02-24 17:24:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the non-overlapping parts of Virt SIG probably require some finesse here, a lot of it is shadow of either the Xen folks (which is... complicated) or oVirt/OKD Virt folks, which should get a workload itself anyway to track that
2026-02-24 17:25:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if we manage to make the Hyperscale case work out, I'll probably start directly advocating for other SIGs to engage with ELN directly
2026-02-24 17:25:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and we can go from there
2026-02-24 17:26:10 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> and they each have their own macros and build configs?
2026-02-24 17:27:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think most of them don't actually
2026-02-24 17:28:03 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> what I'm trying to get at is getting a picture of where this leads us and how many variants we end up with
2026-02-24 17:28:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> aside from disttag stuff
2026-02-24 17:28:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and vendor macro
2026-02-24 17:29:05 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think that in practice there won't be too many of them. Partly because a lot of CentOS SIGs are shadows of Red Hat product teams, which means they are operating as if they layer on base CentOS, and partly because not many people know how to _do_ stuff like what we do in Hyperscale.
2026-02-24 17:29:43 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2026-02-24 17:29:44 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2026-02-24 17:29:53 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ok, like NFV which just has openvswitch/ovn which we can just add to Extras?
2026-02-24 17:30:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2026-02-24 17:30:07 <@davide:cavalca.name> Sorry I'm late, omw to an appointment 
2026-02-24 17:30:13 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> np welcome
2026-02-24 17:30:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the most sophisticated SIGs are Hyperscale and Kmods, and that's because both do kernel things
2026-02-24 17:30:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I guess there's also automotive, but I'm not sure they're really interested in anything of this sort
2026-02-24 17:31:03 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> but if btrfs.ko is in kernel-modules-internal, then there doesn't need to be an ELN HS kernel build?
2026-02-24 17:31:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah no need for that
2026-02-24 17:31:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> because my hyperscale kernel is just ark for rhel + a few configs
2026-02-24 17:32:00 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> and what does kmods add?
2026-02-24 17:32:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> they pull out sources from the rhel kernel and build disabled bits as modules
2026-02-24 17:32:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> they also build the fedora kernel for rhel
2026-02-24 17:32:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> as an alternative
2026-02-24 17:33:18 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> fedora kernel as in the rawhide kernel with fedora config?
2026-02-24 17:33:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2026-02-24 17:33:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it might make sense to track some of the userspace components they build for that as a workload, but I don't think building fedora kernels for rhel is particularly necessary
2026-02-24 17:33:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it might make sense to track some of the userspace components they build for that as a workload, but I don't think building fedora kernels for rhel is particularly necessary in ELN
2026-02-24 17:34:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> since that's the same as rawhide
2026-02-24 17:35:09 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> yeah, any case where it's just "we're building the latest thing which is newer than rhel" doesn't really apply to ELN
2026-02-24 17:35:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2026-02-24 17:35:24 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> just track it in a workload but nothing special wrt builds
2026-02-24 17:35:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2026-02-24 17:35:49 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ok, this gives me a better idea of the whole picture
2026-02-24 17:35:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the userspace stuff isn't that much either: https://cbs.centos.org/koji/packages?tagID=3143
2026-02-24 17:36:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> most of these are things we already track
2026-02-24 17:36:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the only one we don't is virtualbox-guest-additions
2026-02-24 17:37:02 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> we'll need a bit of time to make this work on our end, but we'll need Hyperscale SIG (you guys) to work on upstreaming your conditionalized changes to rawhide
2026-02-24 17:37:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> easy enough to do, I'm just waiting for the approval of the concept and that it's something we'll be able to do
2026-02-24 17:40:18 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> I believe this is doable, makes sense, and fits within the mission of ELN, just need to work out the details
2026-02-24 17:40:28 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> are there any objections or concerns?
2026-02-24 17:40:52 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> we don't really have a formal approval process 🤷
2026-02-24 17:41:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think the only bit is making sure the CKI people would accept such a change in the ARK rhel configs
2026-02-24 17:41:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> other than that, if you already know how to pull this off and are able to enable it, I can get started on upstreaming conditionals
2026-02-24 17:42:10 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> if it's going into -modules-internal, I don't see why they would object, particularly given that x86_64 is now in, I think the case for aarch64 at least makes sense
2026-02-24 17:42:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for the Hyperscale compose, that package will need to be shipped instead of filtered out
2026-02-24 17:42:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but otherwise yeah I think it's workable
2026-02-24 17:43:23 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> the alternative is using `%centos_hs` conditionals like you will for the userspace changes and building kernel separately, they really can't reasonably object to that, but I'd prefer to avoid it if possible
2026-02-24 17:43:33 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> yeah the compose side of that we'll have to figure out
2026-02-24 17:44:07 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> but those are implementation details
2026-02-24 17:44:29 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> and there is lots of those to figure out still, but it all seems doable
2026-02-24 17:45:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> then I guess I'll start upstreaming our conditionals
2026-02-24 17:45:35 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> sounds good, let's make a subtask ticket for tracking those
2026-02-24 17:45:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> sure, mind creating that and assigning it to me?
2026-02-24 17:46:06 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> sure np
2026-02-24 17:46:31 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> it's getting late and a bunch of people here have fesco after this, so let's move on
2026-02-24 17:46:40 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic meeting goals
2026-02-24 17:46:44 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/440
2026-02-24 17:47:26 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> in the interest of time, if anybody has any other big ideas or things they want to see here, please comment there or create a new ticket
2026-02-24 17:48:14 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> some of the other ideas that came out of last week have tickets now, but we'll have to discuss them at another time
2026-02-24 17:48:27 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Next meeting
2026-02-24 17:49:06 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> I have a conflict next week, either I'll find someone to cover or cancel, will follow up in the channel
2026-02-24 17:49:30 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2026-02-24 17:49:55 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anything else to discuss today?
2026-02-24 17:50:42 <@elguero:fedora.im> Sounds good. Nothing on my part. Thank you!
2026-02-24 17:50:59 <@jligon:matrix.org> nothing here
2026-02-24 17:52:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I won't be here next week
2026-02-24 17:52:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm going to be at SCaLE
2026-02-24 17:52:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> as will Davide Cavalca 
2026-02-24 17:53:23 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> that's three of us out, maybe we should just cancel next week then?
2026-02-24 17:54:18 <@elguero:fedora.im> Nice! Conan Kudo Davide Cavalca See you at SCaLE.  I don't leave until Wed but that is fine if we want to skip.
2026-02-24 17:55:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think technically neither does Davide but I thought his travel overlapped with something else
2026-02-24 17:55:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so it's just kind of bunched up
2026-02-24 17:55:27 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm traveling to Pasadena on Sunday
2026-02-24 17:56:26 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info Skipping next week, next meeting will be Tuesday 10 March
2026-02-24 17:56:52 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> thanks all, let's keep the discussions going in channel and in tickets, thanks for coming today
2026-02-24 17:56:56 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !endmeeting