2026-06-03 18:00:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2026-06-03)
2026-06-03 18:00:37 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2026-06-03 18:00:36 UTC
2026-06-03 18:00:37 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2026-06-03)'
2026-06-03 18:00:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2026-06-03 18:00:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2026-06-03 18:00:43 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now epel
2026-06-03 18:00:47 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2026-06-03 18:00:51 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera: Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2026-06-03 18:01:22 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> !hi
2026-06-03 18:01:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George: Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2026-06-03 18:01:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Diego Herrera and Carl George 
2026-06-03 18:03:53 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2026-06-03 18:03:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte: Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2026-06-03 18:04:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Robby Callicotte 
2026-06-03 18:05:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We barely have quorum, but maybe more people will show up ... so let's start
2026-06-03 18:05:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://forge.fedoraproject.org/epel/steering/issues
2026-06-03 18:05:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/epel/docs/pulls
2026-06-03 18:05:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/epel/steering/issues?q=&type=all&state=open&labels=3392
2026-06-03 18:05:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We do have one thing marked with meeting
2026-06-03 18:06:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !epel 366
2026-06-03 18:06:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 4 days ago
2026-06-03 18:06:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 4 days ago by carlwgeorge
2026-06-03 18:06:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **epel/steering #366** (https://forge.fedoraproject.org/epel/steering/issues/366):**EPEL minor version retirement timing**
2026-06-03 18:06:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2026-06-03 18:06:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2026-06-03 18:06:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Issue querying Pagure: Issue not found
2026-06-03 18:07:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: Did you want to lead us in the discussion for this issue?
2026-06-03 18:07:14 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i filed the issue, but will clarify that i don't feel too strongly either way, but felt it merited discussion
2026-06-03 18:07:53 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> basically right now we retire an epel 10 minor the day the next rhel minor comes out, but that means maintainers have zero warning of when that day is because the rhel schedule isn't public
2026-06-03 18:08:11 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i don't think it's a big deal, but some are bothered by it
2026-06-03 18:08:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> To me, my greatedst issued right now is the amount of work needed to extend the release for a week or two.
2026-06-03 18:08:56 <@tdawson:fedora.im> To me, my greatedst issue right now is the amount of work needed to extend the release for a week or two.
2026-06-03 18:08:57 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> the amount of work would just be to change the policy document and the retirement sop, for the retirement itself it's the same work just with a delay
2026-06-03 18:09:08 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> the amount of work would just be to change the policy document and the retirement sop, for the retirement itself is the same work just with a delay
2026-06-03 18:09:37 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> Conan Kudo 😌: i know you have thoughts on this one, now's your chance to voice them
2026-06-03 18:10:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2026-06-03 18:10:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Conan Kudo 😌: Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2026-06-03 18:10:10 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Conan Kudo 😌 
2026-06-03 18:10:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'd prefer to have a delay window
2026-06-03 18:11:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> as I've said before, I'd prefer a one month max window (that is, month of release, EOL 30 days later)
2026-06-03 18:11:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that's basically what we do for fedora, and I think it's reasonable for epel too
2026-06-03 18:11:47 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> weren't you also adamantly against doing anything to support eus to avoid having too many branches?
2026-06-03 18:12:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes, but a one month flushout isn't that much different than what we do in fedora
2026-06-03 18:12:10 <@tdawson:fedora.im> My opinion.  If it's no extra work, set it for a set day that we know will be after the release. (last day of the month, 15th day of the month)
2026-06-03 18:12:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> EUS is a much bigger commitment
2026-06-03 18:12:25 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and hell no to that
2026-06-03 18:12:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> people should pay ISVs for that
2026-06-03 18:14:14 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> my point is that if there is concern about too many branches then we should minimize this potential delay window, a month is too long imo
2026-06-03 18:14:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> do we have any packages in epel that trigger critpath?
2026-06-03 18:15:05 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> no
2026-06-03 18:15:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, May 31 or November 30 ... that way we have a set date and it might extend it 1, 2, or 3 weeks.
2026-06-03 18:15:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> then... we can probably get away with two weeks after
2026-06-03 18:16:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> my original idea would be that we'd just reach the tail of the month it is released
2026-06-03 18:16:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> since rhel is almost never released at the end of the month
2026-06-03 18:16:30 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> picking a set date is a bad idea, since we have no control over the rhel schedule and just have to conform to it
2026-06-03 18:16:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but we could have a floor + tail of the month
2026-06-03 18:16:51 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> picking the end of the month could result in a 1 day delay, which isn't enough for stuff to hit auto stable by time
2026-06-03 18:17:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes, so a two week floor would work to deal with that
2026-06-03 18:17:39 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> how would that be different from just setting the eol to two weeks after the rhel release day?
2026-06-03 18:18:02 <@dherrera:fedora.im> something like, "by the end of the month, which could be pushed back if there is less than 2 weeks until that deadline"... right?
2026-06-03 18:18:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2026-06-03 18:18:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> exactly
2026-06-03 18:18:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it gives us a reasonable bound of predictability while also giving us the ability to tell people the window of existence
2026-06-03 18:18:54 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> that's too convoluted imo
2026-06-03 18:21:29 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> * status quo, retirement on the day of the next rhel minor release.  downsides are maintainers could submit an update within the previous week that don't have time to hit automatic stable by time.  that's partially mitigated by the fact that if they are doing the right thing with upgrade path then users just get the update for the next minor version instead.
2026-06-03 18:21:29 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i see basically two options:
2026-06-03 18:21:29 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> 
2026-06-03 18:21:29 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> * a firm delay window of say 1-2 weeks.  when the rhel minor release happens, we set the eol date 1-2 weeks later in bodhi.  maintainers submitting an update after that get the eol warning and ideally don't submit if it's not critical to avoid wasted effort of obsoleted (bodhi term, not rpm) updates.  it's consistent and as predicable as we can make it given the rhel schedule constraints.
2026-06-03 18:22:20 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> I think a two week window __after the rhel release__ is the happy path here
2026-06-03 18:22:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> indeed
2026-06-03 18:22:35 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> fwiw, so far i haven't heard any complaints from maintainers who submitted updates within the week before retirement who got obsoleted builds.  we do send out an email at the start of the month to warn maintainers it's coming soon, so no one can really say they had no idea it was coming.
2026-06-03 18:23:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I agree.  If we are going to extend it, 2 weeks is the amount I feel comfortable with.
2026-06-03 18:24:02 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> and the whole question of "if" isn't quite settled.  nirik stated in the issue he doesn't think it's worthwhile, and i could go either way.  is this a problem worth solving?
2026-06-03 18:24:03 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2026-06-03 18:24:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca: Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2026-06-03 18:24:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Davide Cavalca 
2026-06-03 18:24:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I could go either way.  I don't feel strongly about it.  But if we do extend it, I feel 2 weeks is the amount we should extend it.
2026-06-03 18:25:05 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> honestly we could even take it down to 8 days, one day more than the stable by time threshold
2026-06-03 18:26:05 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> if a maintainer can get an update to stable they probably don't care if the release is retired a day later, they likely only care (if they do at all) that the update they submitted doesn't get obsoleted before going stable.
2026-06-03 18:26:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Very true.
2026-06-03 18:27:09 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> should we leave this up for discussion in the issue another week and revisit next week, hopefully with more attendance?
2026-06-03 18:27:38 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> I'm ok with this
2026-06-03 18:27:38 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> actually on second count most people are here now, so we could vote if we want
2026-06-03 18:28:08 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> Jonathan Wright probably is around too
2026-06-03 18:28:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It's hard to give a compelling argument for 2 weeks when I'm ok with either way.
2026-06-03 18:29:50 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> yeah i don't feel the need to strongly advocate for this, just wanted people with concerns to have a chance to voice them and get the rest of the committee's views on it
2026-06-03 18:30:38 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> by my rough counting i think i saw 1 hard yes, 1 soft yes, and the rest meh
2026-06-03 18:31:11 <@dherrera:fedora.im> sounds about it
2026-06-03 18:31:34 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> if we could change the bodhi warning wording from "will go eol" to "expected to go eol", would that change anyone's outlook?
2026-06-03 18:32:02 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> what i'm thinking is we set the eol date to what we expect it to be, then if it changes we're covered by the wording
2026-06-03 18:32:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> not really
2026-06-03 18:32:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> because the eol date is when you cut off bodhi update submission
2026-06-03 18:33:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so it doesn't matter how it's worded
2026-06-03 18:33:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the effect is what matters
2026-06-03 18:34:01 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i'm not following your point, the effect is the same, it gets retired when it gets retired
2026-06-03 18:34:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm saying you changing the wording doesn't change my opinion _because_ the effect is the same
2026-06-03 18:34:52 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> the eol date field doesn't actually trigger the retirement, it just triggers the warning
2026-06-03 18:35:02 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> ah, doesn't change your opinion, got it
2026-06-03 18:35:47 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> this has taken up over half the meeting at this point, so i'm ready to table it and encourage folks to voice their opinions in the issue itself
2026-06-03 18:36:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> table it meaning put it aside or put it to vote?
2026-06-03 18:36:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> (since it can mean both 🤪)
2026-06-03 18:36:36 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> commenting on the issue after the vote would be kinda pointless, so i mean put it aside for at least a week
2026-06-03 18:36:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> fine with me
2026-06-03 18:36:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Putting it aside for a week sounds good.
2026-06-03 18:36:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's not like it's urgent
2026-06-03 18:37:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we have five months before it becomes a problem :P
2026-06-03 18:37:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I encourage those those who have strong opinions to comment in the issue.
2026-06-03 18:37:29 <@dherrera:fedora.im> (or 5 months and some weeks)
2026-06-03 18:38:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That was the only issue marked with meeting ... moving on to Old Business.
2026-06-03 18:38:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2026-06-03 18:38:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I believe the Committee Elections are considered Old Business.
2026-06-03 18:39:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Although it was stated in the regular EPEL matrix channel, I'd like to announce the winners officially here.
2026-06-03 18:39:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> fastest election ever
2026-06-03 18:40:04 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i'm positive there have been elections before where the number of candidates was equal to the number of seats
2026-06-03 18:40:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oh probably
2026-06-03 18:40:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but it's not _that_ common I think
2026-06-03 18:42:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !info The Spring 2026 Elections are done.  There were 4 open seats, and 4 people on the balot.  Thus all who ran won.  Congratulations to Diego Herrera (New), Carl George (Returning), Troy Dawson (Returning), and Jonathan Wright (Returning)
2026-06-03 18:42:47 <@dherrera:fedora.im> 🎉
2026-06-03 18:44:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !info Many thanks to retiring Kevin Fenzi nirik.  He has been on the EPEL Steering Commitee from the very beginning, back in 2007.  He's given 19 years of commitment to EPEL and it's community.
2026-06-03 18:45:39 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Diego Herrera: You have some big shoes to fill, but I'm very sure you'll do a great job.
2026-06-03 18:45:52 <@dherrera:fedora.im> 😁 I'll do my best
2026-06-03 18:46:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else around the elections and/or any old business?
2026-06-03 18:48:10 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor
2026-06-03 18:48:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have anything for Open Floor?
2026-06-03 18:49:47 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> i have one small thing
2026-06-03 18:49:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: Go for it.
2026-06-03 18:51:17 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> @phsmoura:fedora.im is joining the epel cle team, so we should have a bit more help in the future
2026-06-03 18:51:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That is great!!
2026-06-03 18:52:53 <@carlwgeorge:fedora.im> he was already in cle working on infra/releng, so not an increase in cle headcount overall, just more focus on epel stuff
2026-06-03 18:53:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It's always good to have more hands helping EPEL.
2026-06-03 18:55:49 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Any other Open Floor items before we close the meeting?
2026-06-03 18:58:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thanks to you all for the good discussions.  And thank you for all you do for EPEL and it's community.
2026-06-03 18:58:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll talk to ya'll next week.
2026-06-03 18:58:26 <@dherrera:fedora.im> Thanks Troy ^^
2026-06-03 18:58:36 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> bye everyone.  Thx Troy
2026-06-03 18:59:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting