2024-07-18 16:30:31 <@tflink:fedora.im> !startmeeting Fedora ai-ml
2024-07-18 16:30:31 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-07-18 16:30:31 UTC
2024-07-18 16:30:32 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora ai-ml'
2024-07-18 16:30:44 <@tflink:fedora.im> !topic roll call
2024-07-18 16:30:46 <@tflink:fedora.im> !hi
2024-07-18 16:30:47 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Tim Flink (tflink)
2024-07-18 16:31:04 <@man2dev:fedora.im> Hello 
2024-07-18 16:32:26 <@tflink:fedora.im> we have quite a bit of stuff to cover today, so let's get started
2024-07-18 16:32:33 <@tflink:fedora.im> !topic Status
2024-07-18 16:33:01 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> !hi
2024-07-18 16:33:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jonathan Steffan (jsteffan)
2024-07-18 16:33:14 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info F41 Self-Contained changes were submitted for pytorch 2.4 and rocm 6.2
2024-07-18 16:33:43 <@mystro256:fedora.im> !hi
2024-07-18 16:33:44 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (mystro256)
2024-07-18 16:33:54 <@tflink:fedora.im> I think that rocm 6.1 is almost ready for F40, it's mostly missing testing?
2024-07-18 16:33:56 <@trix:fedora.im> sorry was in another meeting..
2024-07-18 16:33:56 <@mystro256:fedora.im> (Apparently I'm "none")
2024-07-18 16:34:21 <@mystro256:fedora.im> 6.1 is in testing right now
2024-07-18 16:34:21 <@man2dev:fedora.im> OK so what's first?
2024-07-18 16:34:40 <@tflink:fedora.im> it reads directly from FAS, AFAIK. are there any empty fields?
2024-07-18 16:35:01 <@tflink:fedora.im> are there any other items that I'm missing WRT status updates?
2024-07-18 16:35:32 <@mystro256:fedora.im> Fyi F40 update to rocm 6.1 is here: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-2a06d36b71
2024-07-18 16:35:39 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info ROCm 6.1 for F40 is in testing, please test if you are able
2024-07-18 16:37:02 <@mystro256:fedora.im> Looks like there's still a bug, I'll check it later. I think bodhi won't autopush if there's a downvote right?
2024-07-18 16:37:14 <@tflink:fedora.im> yes, any negative karma disables autopush
2024-07-18 16:37:49 <@tflink:fedora.im> I should have linked this earlier but the agenda is:
2024-07-18 16:37:51 <@tflink:fedora.im> !link https://board.net/p/fedora-pytorch-meeting
2024-07-18 16:38:08 <@tflink:fedora.im> I assume that's all for the status updates, moving on
2024-07-18 16:38:15 <@tflink:fedora.im> !topic pending meeting changes
2024-07-18 16:38:26 <@mystro256:fedora.im> I disabled autopush based on time just in case
2024-07-18 16:38:43 <@tflink:fedora.im> I apologize for not getting most of this done already - it just keeps falling off my todo list with other stuff going on for me
2024-07-18 16:38:52 <@man2dev:fedora.im> proposal: start tracking SIG work items in pagure ai-sig repo Issue.
2024-07-18 16:39:42 <@tflink:fedora.im> does this mean that you're not happy with how I'm running the meeting or is there some issue on matrix WRT test showing up?
2024-07-18 16:40:39 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info after the last meeting, we decided to make some changes which still need to be done and will be before the next meeting
2024-07-18 16:41:09 <@tflink:fedora.im> !action tflink to change meeting name, move calendar from google to fedora, clarify that future meetings will all be on matrix unless otherwise scheduled
2024-07-18 16:41:29 <@tflink:fedora.im> that was pretty much it for this topic. is there anything I missed or are there any questions?
2024-07-18 16:42:23 <@tflink:fedora.im> I take that as a no and we can move on
2024-07-18 16:42:51 <@man2dev:fedora.im> YES
2024-07-18 16:43:12 <@tflink:fedora.im> !topic Tracking SIG work in pagure
2024-07-18 16:43:38 <@tflink:fedora.im> There has been some discussion lately around starting to track SIG work in pagure tickets
2024-07-18 16:43:56 <@tflink:fedora.im> as I recall, the last time this was brought up, there was quite a bit of resistance to the idea
2024-07-18 16:44:26 <@tflink:fedora.im> am I mis-remembering or has that changed enough to start tracking work more formally in tickets?
2024-07-18 16:44:58 <@mystro256:fedora.im> I have no strong feelings. Tom Rix did you have concerns?
2024-07-18 16:45:15 <@trix:fedora.im> 😂
2024-07-18 16:45:25 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info there has been discussion recently about starting to track SIG work in pagure
2024-07-18 16:45:37 <@trix:fedora.im> do we want fedora to be more like a job or a hobby ?
2024-07-18 16:45:40 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info this proposal is to create the repo in pagure and start tracking SIG related work in it
2024-07-18 16:46:14 <@tflink:fedora.im> I think it's more about keeping sanity and not duplicating work if we don't have to, honestly
2024-07-18 16:46:47 <@tflink:fedora.im> it is overhead, yes but I'm not convinced it's pointless busywork so long as we don't create too many tickets or tickets for everything
2024-07-18 16:47:15 <@tflink:fedora.im> but this is a group decision, hence the discussion :)
2024-07-18 16:47:45 <@trix:fedora.im> would we be able to use it to get more people to help out ?
2024-07-18 16:48:03 <@trix:fedora.im> as more people helping is what i think is our big problem.
2024-07-18 16:48:20 <@tflink:fedora.im> I think that having some method for organizing work will be more important if/when we get more people
2024-07-18 16:48:45 <@tflink:fedora.im> it can help new folks know where to start
2024-07-18 16:50:15 <@tflink:fedora.im> proposal: create a fedora-ai-ml repo in pagure and start tracking relevant work in that repo as tickets
2024-07-18 16:50:27 <@tflink:fedora.im> can I get a show of +1/-1
2024-07-18 16:50:53 <@man2dev:fedora.im> Basicly Everyone seems to be in favor as long as it's not overused?
2024-07-18 16:51:11 <@trix:fedora.im> abstain
2024-07-18 16:51:24 <@man2dev:fedora.im> +1
2024-07-18 16:51:29 <@tflink:fedora.im> that does seem to be the feeling but I would like to have a more exact showing before we make a change
2024-07-18 16:51:49 <@mystro256:fedora.im> Abstain (indifferent)
2024-07-18 16:52:03 <@tflink:fedora.im> +1
2024-07-18 16:52:26 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> +1 (with the caveat that i'm okay with using whatever method we all agree upon)
2024-07-18 16:52:33 <@tflink:fedora.im> I'm seeing 3x +1 and 2x +0
2024-07-18 16:52:47 <@mystro256:fedora.im> Whatever works, wiki page, bugtracker, multicoloured balloons
2024-07-18 16:52:59 <@mystro256:fedora.im> Naval flags ;)
2024-07-18 16:53:36 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info AGREED: we will a fedora-ai-ml repo in pagure and start tracking relevant work in that repo as tickets
2024-07-18 16:53:58 <@tflink:fedora.im> if there are concerns about too many tickets, please bring the issue up and we can deal with it
2024-07-18 16:54:12 <@tflink:fedora.im> too many tickets, the wrong kind of tickets etc.
2024-07-18 16:54:25 <@tflink:fedora.im> !action tflink to create ai-ml-sig pagure repo
2024-07-18 16:54:40 <@tflink:fedora.im> anything else on this or shall we move on?
2024-07-18 16:55:12 <@tflink:fedora.im> !topic names and groups
2024-07-18 16:56:10 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info there are currently several groups that are part of Fedora's AI/ML SIG. Among the packaging groups for pytorch and rocm
2024-07-18 16:57:04 <@tflink:fedora.im> there have been two proposals brought up in the same thing and I'm trying to not confuse them
2024-07-18 16:57:20 <@mystro256:fedora.im> I'm assuming Intel is a dead end right now? I assume there's nv interest, but a lot of it is rpmfusion required
2024-07-18 16:57:45 <@tflink:fedora.im> The direct proposal has been to rename the pytorch-sig packaging group to include all ai-ml and pytorch packages
2024-07-18 16:58:24 <@tflink:fedora.im> It's not deaf AFAIK but the folks I know of who are working on that stuff don't participate here
2024-07-18 16:58:48 <@man2dev:fedora.im> I was talking about the http://src.fedoraproject.org/group/pytorch-sig
2024-07-18 16:58:50 <@tflink:fedora.im> The direct proposal has been to rename the pytorch-sig packaging group and  include all ai-ml and pytorch packages
2024-07-18 16:59:16 <@trix:fedora.im> this was to organize the original work to get the dependencies in 
2024-07-18 16:59:20 <@trix:fedora.im> they are in.
2024-07-18 16:59:46 <@trix:fedora.im> i did a lot of them, ok with me if that is killed off 
2024-07-18 16:59:57 <@man2dev:fedora.im> So that wascan place all ai projects in coherent place
2024-07-18 17:00:49 <@tflink:fedora.im> the question then becomes whether we want to have one group to act as maintainers (if only backup maintainers) for ai/ml related packages
2024-07-18 17:00:52 <@trix:fedora.im> new AI package should be tracked by whatever majic bz someone setup years ago. that is all we need.
2024-07-18 17:01:36 <@tflink:fedora.im> unless we want to have a larger distgit group for package maintenance kind of like the python SIG has
2024-07-18 17:01:43 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> this was the original reason we kept the pytorch sig
2024-07-18 17:01:59 <@tflink:fedora.im> or how we have the rocm packages set up
2024-07-18 17:03:09 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> based on the current velocity, i don't think we have a noisy room situation. it might be best to not solve tomorrow's problems and just try to achieve critical mass first
2024-07-18 17:03:13 <@tflink:fedora.im> bah, I keep losing connection to matrix. not sure what's going on today
2024-07-18 17:03:17 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> based on the current velocity, i don't think we have a noisy room situation. it might be best to not solve tomorrow's problems and just try to achieve critical contributor mass first
2024-07-18 17:03:43 <@trix:fedora.im> set one, start a list of what are the ai packages
2024-07-18 17:03:53 <@trix:fedora.im> step one, i mean
2024-07-18 17:04:01 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> it's a federation issue causing tons of network issues (saw some stuff on the ubuntu matrix ops channel)
2024-07-18 17:04:13 <@trix:fedora.im> blame ubuntu!
2024-07-18 17:04:35 <@tflink:fedora.im> yeah, I'm somewhat ambivalent on this one - it's a future problem to make shared maintenance easier if folks become busy or don't want to maintain packages at some point
2024-07-18 17:04:43 <@trix:fedora.im> its not their fault, just good for laugh
2024-07-18 17:04:56 <@tflink:fedora.im> I also don't know if dist-git groups can be renamed
2024-07-18 17:05:03 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> they can't
2024-07-18 17:05:28 <@trix:fedora.im> in the *torch space, it would be good if it wasn't just me
2024-07-18 17:06:01 <@trix:fedora.im> as chasing 2.4 is sucking up a lot of time.
2024-07-18 17:06:09 <@tflink:fedora.im> Tom Rix: what is your opinion on creating a group for maintance? in practice, this would affect you the most, I think
2024-07-18 17:06:35 <@trix:fedora.im> yes.
2024-07-18 17:06:59 <@tflink:fedora.im> ok, we can do that, then
2024-07-18 17:07:06 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> i'm in support of casting a wider net and letting people rely on email/notification filters until it becomes a real, not just perceived, issue
2024-07-18 17:07:34 <@tflink:fedora.im> yeah, dist-git PRs are definitely a thing :)
2024-07-18 17:07:47 <@trix:fedora.im> tflink: is worried i will be hit by bus or bit by snake or something
2024-07-18 17:08:04 <@trix:fedora.im> or hit by snakebus
2024-07-18 17:08:07 <@tflink:fedora.im> pretty much, yeah. I'm a big believer of the bus rule or keeping the bus number over 1
2024-07-18 17:08:39 <@tflink:fedora.im> proposal: create an ai-ml group in dist-git for shared maintenance of ai/ml related packages
2024-07-18 17:08:54 <@tflink:fedora.im> +1/0/-1 votes?
2024-07-18 17:08:55 <@trix:fedora.im> so how about we start a discussion on the boards see who all may be interested in at least helping with *torch
2024-07-18 17:09:10 <@tflink:fedora.im> that works for me
2024-07-18 17:09:14 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> +1 (and this is already done)
2024-07-18 17:09:36 <@tflink:fedora.im> the discussion? if so, can you link?
2024-07-18 17:09:57 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> no, to the proposal of create an ai-ml group in dist-git for shared maintenance of ai/ml related packages
2024-07-18 17:10:09 <@tflink:fedora.im> or is there a dist-git group that I'm forgetting about?
2024-07-18 17:11:22 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/groups/g/ai-ml/coprs/ https://accounts.fedoraproject.org/group/ai-ml-sig/
2024-07-18 17:11:39 <@tflink:fedora.im> I thought that was just fas and gitlab, though - not dist-git
2024-07-18 17:11:40 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> where we had some previous issue was mapping to the gitlab group. i think we needed to change group names or something
2024-07-18 17:11:44 <@trix:fedora.im> easy-ish first thing would be take torchchar for a spin vs gitcommit/2.4 version of torch.
2024-07-18 17:11:58 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> i thought dist-git was mapped to fas
2024-07-18 17:12:14 <@trix:fedora.im> if you like that, i'll add you to the users ..
2024-07-18 17:12:24 <@tflink:fedora.im> I think that packaging groups are special groups in FAS and the mapping isn't 1:1 or guaranteed
2024-07-18 17:12:25 <@trix:fedora.im> do it for 2 and i will add you to all of them.
2024-07-18 17:12:47 <@tflink:fedora.im> either way, I think this can be tabled for the next meeting pending investigation and maybe discussion
2024-07-18 17:12:55 <@trix:fedora.im> and there are torch things on my wish list..
2024-07-18 17:13:11 <@trix:fedora.im> sorry talking about happy future.
2024-07-18 17:13:20 <@tflink:fedora.im> daMaestro: can you take the AI to figure out whether the existing groups map to dist-git or should I?
2024-07-18 17:13:30 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> it can be our first ticket in the  fedora-ai-ml pagure
2024-07-18 17:13:31 <@trix:fedora.im> we do need to get triton in.
2024-07-18 17:14:14 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> tflink: if you are able to do it that would be great. i can contribute on the ticket
2024-07-18 17:14:27 <@tflink:fedora.im> !action tflink to file ticket about clarifying whether the existing ai-ml FAS groups map to dist-git
2024-07-18 17:15:09 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info there are some unanswered questions around group usage right now and this isn't an urgent need so it is being tabled for now for investigation and potential discussion on discourse
2024-07-18 17:15:12 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> the outcome of that ticket should be a document of all of the groups, their purpose, and responsibilities for members in those groups
2024-07-18 17:15:38 <@tflink:fedora.im> yeah, that makes sense - that should be documented somewhere
2024-07-18 17:16:33 <@tflink:fedora.im> Tom Rix: sorry for talking over you a bit, I wanted to wrap up the group topic first. do you want to talk more about the packaging wishlist now?
2024-07-18 17:16:50 <@trix:fedora.im> sure.
2024-07-18 17:17:03 <@tflink:fedora.im> !topic ai-ml packaging wishlist
2024-07-18 17:17:09 <@trix:fedora.im> with 2.4 coming up, the *torch things need a refresh.
2024-07-18 17:17:36 <@trix:fedora.im> there are some (3) new packages in torch that maybe need to be fedora.
2024-07-18 17:17:49 <@trix:fedora.im> see the spec file.
2024-07-18 17:17:58 <@tflink:fedora.im> you mean torchvision, torchaudio etc. or are there more?
2024-07-18 17:18:48 <@trix:fedora.im> i personaly just following torch things because i had to draw the line.
2024-07-18 17:18:55 <@trix:fedora.im> with day job.
2024-07-18 17:19:35 <@tflink:fedora.im> which packages are you talking about WRT *torch - is it all the things that depend on torch or is a subset of that?
2024-07-18 17:19:56 <@trix:fedora.im> anything in the main upstream torch repo
2024-07-18 17:20:07 <@trix:fedora.im> there are about 30 projects there
2024-07-18 17:20:49 <@trix:fedora.im> i would like fedora to robustly support these.
2024-07-18 17:21:00 <@man2dev:fedora.im> Pip might not be Recognizing the torch package.
2024-07-18 17:21:01 <@trix:fedora.im> sense its an ecosystem things
2024-07-18 17:21:06 <@tflink:fedora.im> for the sake of clarity, are you talking about repos in https://github.com/pytorch
2024-07-18 17:21:18 <@trix:fedora.im> ok, 75.. crapppp
2024-07-18 17:21:19 <@tflink:fedora.im> I haven't forgotten, that's the next topic
2024-07-18 17:21:48 <@trix:fedora.im> a big one the crosses pytorch and rocm is triton.
2024-07-18 17:22:01 <@trix:fedora.im> triton is the big thing i want to do next.
2024-07-18 17:22:05 <@tflink:fedora.im> Tom Rix: do you have a list of the packages that need to be updated and added?
2024-07-18 17:22:29 <@trix:fedora.im> for day job, yes.
2024-07-18 17:23:10 <@tflink:fedora.im> let's see if this renders passably
2024-07-18 17:23:19 <@trix:fedora.im> in part i could organize this _if_ someone wanted to help, otherwise i make a list on my desk and do that.
2024-07-18 17:23:30 <@tflink:fedora.im> python3-torchvision-0:0.16.0-7.fc40.x86_64
2024-07-18 17:23:30 <@tflink:fedora.im> ```
2024-07-18 17:23:30 <@tflink:fedora.im> ```# dnf repoquery --whatrequires python3-torch
2024-07-18 17:23:30 <@tflink:fedora.im> python3-torch-devel-0:2.1.2-11.fc40.x86_64
2024-07-18 17:23:30 <@tflink:fedora.im> python3-torch-devel-0:2.1.2-3.fc40.x86_64
2024-07-18 17:23:30 <@tflink:fedora.im> python3-torchdata-0:0.7.0-5.fc40.noarch
2024-07-18 17:23:40 <@tflink:fedora.im> kinda
2024-07-18 17:23:52 <@tflink:fedora.im> that was the output of ```# dnf repoquery --whatrequires python3-torch```
2024-07-18 17:24:11 <@trix:fedora.im> f40 these packages atm are cpu only. 
2024-07-18 17:24:34 <@trix:fedora.im> we did a late update for f40 to be rocm-ing.
2024-07-18 17:24:35 <@tflink:fedora.im> I know, I'm just trying to get a more exact list and don't have a rawhide machine powered up ATM
2024-07-18 17:25:05 <@tflink:fedora.im> I'd say the packaging wishlist is something that we could do. folks may or may not help but if there's no list, people are unlikely to help
2024-07-18 17:25:28 <@tflink:fedora.im> but if there are packages which need updating, I'm happy to help where I can
2024-07-18 17:26:09 <@tflink:fedora.im> I propose that we move this to discourse in 2 threads - one for the torch packages which need updating now for 2.4 and another thread for the packaging wishlist (that could also be tickets in pagure)
2024-07-18 17:26:23 <@trix:fedora.im> give those above a whirl on f40. at least torchvision could be rocm powered in f40 if it was updated from rawhide
2024-07-18 17:27:23 <@tflink:fedora.im> Tom Rix: would you be willing to create a list of the packages which need to be refreshed?
2024-07-18 17:28:06 <@mystro256:fedora.im> Related: I have a wip for rocdecode, rocm multimedia sdk
2024-07-18 17:28:51 <@tflink:fedora.im> is that packageable in fedora?
2024-07-18 17:28:53 <@mystro256:fedora.im> Might be needed for something later
2024-07-18 17:29:20 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> the list of packages would be great to have. i'm also available to do package reviews, i'm already down the rabbit hole with XR stuff. minimally i can do first pass stuff, and if i understand the details of the package i can do the full review.
2024-07-18 17:30:17 <@tflink:fedora.im> I think that we're starting to drift a bit and we're running out of time for this week. any objections to continuing this discussion outside of the meeting?
2024-07-18 17:30:28 <@trix:fedora.im> thats fine
2024-07-18 17:31:23 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info there seems to be interest in having some forms of packaging wishlist and/or list of packages which currently need updating. discussion will continue outside of the meeting and will be picked up at the next meeting if need be
2024-07-18 17:31:27 <@tflink:fedora.im> ok, moving on
2024-07-18 17:31:38 <@tflink:fedora.im> !topic pip and system site-packages
2024-07-18 17:32:10 <@tflink:fedora.im> I'm not sure this needs to be discussed in meeting but there seems to be a concern that pip isn't seeing python packages which are installed via RPM
2024-07-18 17:32:37 <@tflink:fedora.im> my first question is whether this is being done in a venv or venv equivalent
2024-07-18 17:32:54 <@man2dev:fedora.im> No native
2024-07-18 17:34:01 <@tflink:fedora.im> I forget, does pip automatically install stuff to some $HOME/ subdir
2024-07-18 17:35:02 <@tflink:fedora.im> either way, I think this is better addressed in a bug report or discourse topic. Mohammadreza Hendiani would you mind creating an issue or starting a topic on discourse about this?
2024-07-18 17:35:22 <@tflink:fedora.im> and letting us know where the issue is filed if you go that route?
2024-07-18 17:35:29 <@man2dev:fedora.im> Sure
2024-07-18 17:35:34 <@tflink:fedora.im> thanks
2024-07-18 17:35:47 <@tflink:fedora.im> !info this issue will be explored offline in an issue or discourse topic
2024-07-18 17:35:53 <@tflink:fedora.im> last one
2024-07-18 17:36:04 <@tflink:fedora.im> !topic open floor
2024-07-18 17:36:15 <@tflink:fedora.im> are there any other topics that folks want to bring up?
2024-07-18 17:36:58 <@trix:fedora.im> extending time of meeting to cover actual time we spend in meeting ?
2024-07-18 17:37:17 <@tflink:fedora.im> you mean do an hour on the schedule instead of 30 mintues?
2024-07-18 17:37:21 <@trix:fedora.im> yes
2024-07-18 17:37:34 <@tflink:fedora.im> or did you mean that I should have ended the meeting at 30 minutes instead of letting it go to over 60?
2024-07-18 17:38:12 <@trix:fedora.im> going longer is fine.. in calendar fight with other meetings, it is good if this meetings time reflects real time.
2024-07-18 17:38:33 <@man2dev:fedora.im> Agreed
2024-07-18 17:38:40 <@trix:fedora.im> unfortunately day job is filled with calendar fights.
2024-07-18 17:38:49 <@tflink:fedora.im> most Fedora group matrix meetings are scheduled for 60 mintes, I'm fine with doing that
2024-07-18 17:39:31 <@tflink:fedora.im> I'll do that when I move the meeting from google to fedora calendar
2024-07-18 17:40:02 <@tflink:fedora.im> if there's nothing else, we're over the 60 minutes we're talking about extending to
2024-07-18 17:40:11 <@trix:fedora.im> lunch!
2024-07-18 17:40:18 <@tflink:fedora.im> +1
2024-07-18 17:40:32 <@tflink:fedora.im> ok, thanks for coming, everyone
2024-07-18 17:40:41 <@tflink:fedora.im> !endmeeting