#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:35:15

!startmeeting FESCO (2024-02-26) !meetingname fesco

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

19:35:16

Meeting started at 2024-02-26 19:35:15 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

19:35:16

The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2024-02-26) !meetingname fesco'

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:35:25

!startmeeting FESCO (2024-02-26)

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

19:35:26

Meeting already in progress

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:35:32

!meetingname fesco

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:35:39

Chairs: @conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @nirik:matrix.scrye.com, @humaton:fedora.im, @zbyszek:fedora.im, @sgallagh:fedora.im, @jistone:fedora.im, @dcantrell:fedora.im, @mhayden:fedora.im, @tstellar:fedora.im

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

19:35:40

🎉

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:35:44

!topic Init Process

<@jistone:fedora.im>

19:35:44

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:35:45

Josh Stone (jistone) - he / him / his

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

19:35:49

!hi

<@tstellar:fedora.im>

19:35:50

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:35:50

Major Hayden (mhayden) - he / him / his

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:35:51

Tom Stellard (tstellar)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:35:56

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:35:57

Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:36:18

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:36:19

Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbyszek)

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:37:51

Hmm, I see 4 people.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:38:19

Did I miss someone?

<@tstellar:fedora.im>

19:38:43

zbyszek: I count 5 including you.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:39:19

mhayden, me, tstellar, jistone

<@tstellar:fedora.im>

19:39:25

Oops no, you are right, 4 FESCO members.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:39:38

Michel doesn't have a vote unfortunately.

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

19:40:28

but we appreciate Michel Lind🎩's presence nonetheless 👋

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:40:36

yup, I'm just lurking

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:40:42

nirik, dcantrell, jednorozec, Stephen Gallagher ping fesco meeting

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

19:40:52

lurkers must bring snacks 🤭

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:40:52

nirik is on PTO I think?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:41:05

Conan Kudo: ping fesco meeting

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

19:41:12

must be earned, though

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

19:41:12

I'm super-busy today, but I can be here for quorum purposes if needed.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:41:13

I do bring snacks

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:41:19

Cookies are always appreciated.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:41:22

unfortunately my teleporter is broken

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:41:33

neil gave a cookie to zbyszek. They now have 124 cookies, 7 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:41:46

salimma has already given cookies to sgallagh during the F39 timeframe

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

19:41:53

hopefully not the same cookies that all these websites ask me to accept

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:42:00

mhayden has already given cookies to zbyszek during the F39 timeframe

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:42:05

!hi

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

19:42:09

gdpr compliant cookies, i promise

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:42:12

mhayden has already given cookies to sgallagh during the F39 timeframe

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:42:13

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:42:20

mhayden gave a cookie to tstellar. They now have 14 cookies, 6 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:42:30

mhayden gave a cookie to jistone. They now have 16 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:42:37

OK, let's do this then.

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:42:43

mhayden gave a cookie to ngompa. They now have 109 cookies, 7 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:42:44

!topic #3158 Change: Arm Minimal Image OS Build

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:42:55

mhayden gave a cookie to neil. They now have 4 cookies, 4 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:42:56

!fesco 3158

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:42:57

**fesco #3158** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3158):**Change: Arm Minimal Image OS Build** ● **Opened:** 4 weeks ago by amoloney ● **Last Updated:** 3 days ago ● **Assignee:** pbrobinson

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:43:47

Unfortunately I didn't have time to look into this too much.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:45:00

I think we should just approve this, to unblock the work that is happening.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:45:25

It's just one image after all, and if we don't try it, we won't learn.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:45:38

I'm tired of this, so I'll vote 0 on it

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:45:45

explicitly not voting -1

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

19:46:23

nirik's last comment leads me to think "let's give this a try and fall back on a process if something goes wrong": If Peter thinks this can be done, I'm still +1 to it. If it turns out the image isn't fully workable for some reason, it should hit the blocker process and we can back it out to the old image

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:46:30

We have +5 in the ticket, incl. my vote. Then I withdrew it during the meeting previous week. But I'm ready to vote +1 again.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:46:57

So I think we're at (+5, 1, 0).

<@jistone:fedora.im>

19:47:04

+1 from me

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:47:07

Even though I'm not happy with the current state of things, I've had a good conversation with Simon de Vlieger over the weekend where we've come to a consensus that the status quo is not acceptable and will change soon

<@tstellar:fedora.im>

19:47:13

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:47:27

mhayden has already given cookies to tstellar during the F39 timeframe

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:47:28

and if it doesn't, we'll have to see

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:47:59

I do however want to register my dissatisfaction with having "magic" image builds

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:48:12

!agreed APPROVED (+7, 1, 0)

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:48:32

!topic #3173 F40 Change Proposal Status: Incomplete Changes

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:48:38

!fesco 3173

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:48:39

**fesco #3173** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3173):**F40 Change Proposal Status: Incomplete Changes** ● **Opened:** a week ago by amoloney ● **Last Updated:** an hour ago ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:48:51

I'll go in order in the comment by AdamW.

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

19:49:12

one day i'll write an autobiography and "Incomplete Changes" will likely be the title

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:49:25

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LLVM-18

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

19:49:29

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:49:31

Aoife Moloney (amoloney)

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

19:49:35

sorry Im late

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:49:38

we'll share a book then :P

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:49:44

mhayden gave a cookie to amoloney. They now have 25 cookies, 4 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:49:58

Aoife Moloney: It's great that you're here. Perfect timing ;)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:50:22

zbyszek: you should probably use info or link here, so that it's sectioned in the minutes

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:50:36

!info ttps://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LLVM-18

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:50:40

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LLVM-18

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:50:56

Quoting myself: llvm-18.1.0~rc3-1.fc41 was built a few days ago. The retirements didn't happen yet. I guess it's still possible that this will all happen in time for F40; retirements are allowed until the Final Freeze.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:51:02

I think we should just leave this one be.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:51:11

fine with me

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:51:30

retirements aren't the biggest deal anyway

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:51:36

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KiwiBuiltCloudImages

<@tstellar:fedora.im>

19:51:47

The LLVM-18 task is on track.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:52:05

Conan Kudo: what's the status here?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:52:23

the kiwi plugin was just turned on at the end of last week

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:52:53

so now we need to test the pungi changes on staging koji and then merge + release it to prod

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:53:11

everything else is basically done, we're just waiting on pungi stuff

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:53:36

!undo

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:53:44

Hmm, this doens't work.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:53:58

!info Changes/LLVM-18 is on track.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:54:11

we should probably ask for undo command

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:54:16

!info Changes/KiwiBuiltCloudImages is in progress.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:54:23

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Java21

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:55:11

> we already have the change prepared and built in copr, now we are making sure we break as little dependent packages as possible. A few days ago, I asked the maintainer of maven and other important packages to adapt the xmvn and other packages to this change and he is working on it now. Once that is done, I can try mass rebuild in Copr to see, how many packages are affected and file bugs.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:55:39

So… I think we can wait a bit more. If it doesn't happen before Beta Freeze, we can discuss.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:55:59

sounds good to me

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:56:37

!info Changes/Java21 is in progress, we'll revisit after Beta Freeze starts.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:56:59

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SystemdSecurityHardening

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:57:09

I haven't seen any movement on this.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:57:55

I think this will need to be deferred

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

19:57:57

I will reach out to the proposal owner via email - we were in a fair bit of contact throughout the proposal stage

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

19:58:07

I will reach out to the proposal owner via email - we were in a fair bit of contact throughout the submission stage

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:58:24

!action Aoife Moloney will reach out to the Change owner.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:58:44

!action Aoife Moloney will reach out to the owner of hanges/SystemdSecurityHardening.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:59:10

Typo?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:59:19

Though this is something that can happen at any time. I still hope it'll happen at some point.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

19:59:49

!action Aoife Moloney will reach out to the owner of Changes/SystemdSecurityHardening.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:00:07

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveOpensslCompat

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:00:27

IIUC, this one is waiting for a hero to fix python3.6.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:01:06

> Tracked by bz #2254550: I'm working on this migration.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:01:28

We can do the migration at any time before Final Freeze…

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:01:34

did we decide whether that's actually *blocking*?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:01:59

Yes, I think we did.

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:02:15

I suppose it has to be for the compose?

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:02:34

but I thought dropping python3.6 was still an option too

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:03:14

Yeah, it's certainly an option, but it'd mean dropping python3.6, and the python folks said that they want to keep it for now.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:03:21

And Victor Stinner is working on the port.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:03:33

so there's progress being made then

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:03:42

So I think we should wait. I'll ask in the ticket if it's likely to be ready before FF.

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:03:48

sure, good to know that it's in progress

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:04:53

OK, I asked in the ticket. Let's leave this for now.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:05:20

!info Changes/RemoveOpensslCompat is blocked by the port of Python3.6 to newer openssl which is being worked on.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:05:32

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibuserDeprecation

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:05:42

this seems done?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:06:06

!link https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/shadow-utils/c/91360f25a8c8b810d59bec2803a2477a2647c775

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:06:13

> Status update: - passwd is retired - shadow-utils passwd delivered as replacement - util-linux dropped the libuser dependency I marked the libuser as deprecated in spec file (rebuild coming soon) Last missing part is usermode. This can eventually be postponed and the dependency can be removed later in f41.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:06:45

we should be in good shape then for this change

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:07:14

It's not clear if the usermode part is happening.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:07:37

Dunno, leave for now?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:07:51

leave it I think

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:08:00

!info Changes/LibuserDeprecation is mostly done.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:08:02

I haven't seen anything going on in pagure.io/usermode, and honestly not that concerned

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:08:12

OK.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:08:23

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PortingToModernC

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:09:12

this is basically done, no? gcc 14 landed with this in effect

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:09:40

now everyone is dealing with the fallout

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:10:28

!info gcc14 is in f40, so Changes/PortingToModernC has happened.

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:10:31

Carlos replied, "I would consider this change request as complete as we will get right now for Fedora 40."

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:11:18

OK, I changed the tracking bug to ON_QA.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:11:43

!info Changes/IoTSimplifiedProvisioning

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:11:52

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IoTSimplifiedProvisioning

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:12:29

> This change is now testable in Koji by submitting manual builds, we still need a small patch to Pungi to have it included in our composes.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:12:55

Does anyone know more?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:13:27

I guess not, let's leave it for now.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:13:48

!info Changes/IoTSimplifiedProvisioning is in testable state.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:14:02

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Haskell_GHC_9.6_and_Stackage_22

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:14:32

I think Jens Petersen was working on it this morning

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:14:39

!info Changes/Haskell_GHC_9.6_and_Stackage_22 was bumped to F41.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:14:47

ahh oof

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:14:52

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/F40_MariaDB_MySQL_repackaging

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:16:24

I'm still reviewing the rename request...

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:16:28

You mean Haskell?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:16:29

!bug 2252763

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

20:16:31

RHBZ#2252763 (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2252763): [Package Review]: Rename Request: mysql - MySQL client programs and shared libraries

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:17:03

I'm reasonably confident we can get this in on time though.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:17:55

!info Changes/F40_MariaDB_MySQL_repackaging is waiting on the rename review request, but Neal is reasonably confident that it'll happen in time.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:18:11

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Unified_Kernel_Support_Phase_2

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:18:24

this is blocked on the kiwi change

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:18:46

all the work for this is done, we're just waiting for the pungi kiwi stuff to go live

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:19:11

OK, can you type an !info with the summary.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:19:18

OK, can you type an !info with the summary? Pretty please.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:19:40

!info All the work for this is done, we're waiting for the kiwi change to be finished for this to be completed.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:19:57

Thanks.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:20:00

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraSilverblueBootupd

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:20:41

I guess it's getting very late for this kind of change.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:21:13

another deferral then?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:22:02

Would we want to make any changes in this area after Beta?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:22:13

I don't think so.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:22:21

yeah, I don't think so either..

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:22:43

Proposal: Changes/FedoraSilverblueBootupd is deferred to F41

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:23:13

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:24:00

(this has already been deferred since F38?!)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:24:10

yes

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:24:26

it's not the first change that winds up like this

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:24:41

sometimes it takes a while

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:24:48

do they get re-evaluated, or keep their previous approval?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

20:25:01

the latter

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:25:16

If stuff is being worked on, we tend to just let them be.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:25:29

Every one in a while we'll ask the Owners to resubmitt.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:25:39

E.g. I think this happened for the Xorg stuff.

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:25:44

I guess that's ok for self-contained especially

<@jistone:fedora.im>

20:25:48

anyway, +1

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:26:08

mhayden?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:26:21

Stephen Gallagher: vote, if you're still here?

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

20:26:29

Looking

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

20:26:36

+1 on deferring

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

20:26:55

+1 to defer

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:27:57

!agreed Changes/FedoraSilverblueBootupd is deferred to F41 (+5, 0, 0)

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:28:11

Please check my tallying.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:28:41

Ah, Tom Stellard didn't vote.

<@tstellar:fedora.im>

20:29:04

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:29:05

OK, it's a bit late here…

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:29:23

!agreed Changes/FedoraSilverblueBootupd is deferred to F41 (+6, 0, 0)

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:30:00

We already handled IoTSP, it's on the list twice.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:30:27

!info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Unify_bin_and_sbin was deferred to F41 by the Owner (zbyszek)

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:30:40

OK, that's the whole list.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:31:15

!topic Next week's chair

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:31:23

Vlntrs?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:32:26

Someone who hasn't done it in a while, pretty please.

<@mhayden:fedora.im>

20:32:47

i can take it!

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:33:06

!action mhayden will chair the next meeting.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:33:19

!topic Open Floor

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

20:33:21

sgallagh gave a cookie to mhayden. They now have 35 cookies, 5 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

20:33:36

mhayden has already given cookies to zodbot during the F39 timeframe

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

20:33:57

zbyszek gave a cookie to zodbot. They now have 15 cookies, 8 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

20:34:40

!info Fedora ELN has successfully branched off to CentOS Stream 10. As a result, Fedora ELN is now tracking changes destined for CentOS Stream/RHEL 11.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:34:58

Cool.

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

20:35:14

Nothing more to add there, just wanted to get it into the minutes

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:35:27

Ack. So if nothing else, I'll close in a minute.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

20:36:10

!endmeeting