#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:00:01

!startmeeting Quality

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

15:00:05

Meeting started at 2024-04-29 15:00:01 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

15:00:05

The Meeting name is 'Quality'

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:00:05

!topic Roll Call

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:00:09

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:00:13

Adam Williamson (adamwill) - he / him / his

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:00:27

hi hi folks, anyone around for quality meeting funtimes?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:00:43

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:00:48

Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:00:56

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:01:01

František Zatloukal (frantisekz)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

15:01:32

!hi

<@tflink:fedora.im>

15:01:43

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:01:46

Tim Flink (tflink)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:02:19

how was everyone's weekend

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:03:23

calm, after a week of having all the evenings out in the restaurants n pubs... 😁

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:03:43

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:03:46

Geoffrey Marr (coremodule)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:04:09

gotta take advantage of sudhir's expenses while you can :P

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:04:12

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:04:15

Aoife Moloney (amoloney)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:04:52

allllrighty, i guess let's get going

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:04:57

#topic Previous meeting follow-up

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:05:04

ugh

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:05:13

!topic Previous meeting follow-up

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:05:18

one day i'll remember that

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:05:57

!info "adamw or kparal to follow up on https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/773 after discussing it with the team" - Kamil Páral and lruzicka both weighed in on the topic, thanks folks

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:06:10

Aoife Moloney: was that enough responding for you? :)

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:06:23

T'was, thank you all :)

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:06:53

Sumantro Mukherjee: and I have an email in draft, Ill drop the link to the google doc in the ticket too

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:07:14

awesome

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:07:30

!topic Fedora 40 post-release status and recap

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:08:05

so, it seems like 40 is mostly going over well...I guess the selinux issues with hosting VMs are the most consistent issue i've seen, but the maintainer's working on that

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:08:15

anyone seen anything concerning?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:08:37

It's been working fine for me.

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:09:08

qt rebase is annoying as always, that came after ga afaik, but there is no action we can do about it

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:09:55

(wreaking havoc on out-of-the-repos packages that use qt, but I assume there's some exception for the qt to break abi)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:10:37

unfortunately, yes

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:10:37

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Updates_Policy/#_exceptions

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:11:03

well, *technically* this update was not covered by the exception because the exception is specific to 5.x ;)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:11:08

Conan Kudo: quit breaking the law!

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:12:12

30 lashes with a wet noodle

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:13:06

also to note, Fedora, on Intel GPUs is now accelerating video playback in good-behaving apps, I didn't see any complains out there (nor kudos :( )

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:13:13

but yeah, it seems like there may be a particularly unfortunate intersection of that with the "try and get the transaction through at all costs" behaviour that gnome-software and discover seem to share

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:13:31

i would really prefer they bail and inform the user if the transaction would require omitting or removing packages

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:14:01

František Zatloukal: you know, i've tried to get that working on my laptop and didn't get any measurable success, but hey

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:14:30

we can talk about that off-meeting, should be working ootb

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:14:30

How would I test that?

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:15:08

the easies would be youtube in firefox, and see sudo intel_gpu_top / Video column be > 0 %

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:15:17

yeah, that's what i was trying

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:15:25

on supported codecs, which you can compare in vainfo and stats for nerds

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:15:46

TIL intel_gpu_top, my life will never be the same

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:15:55

yt is now pushing av1 a lot, and it's supported only in pretty recent generations

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:16:16

i've got like *all the things* in vainfo, including `VAProfileAV1Profile0`

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:16:21

(let's not ask too many questions about how ahem)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:16:38

and i still don't see any VideoEnhance use in intel_gpu_top, ah well

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:16:56

VIdeoEnchance won't work for now, cause intel's upstreams

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:17:00

just Video

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:18:50

it blipped to 0.03% for a second. I don't think that counts :D

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:18:51

oh, wait, got it to 3% on some video. but Render/3D is still showing like 50%.

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:18:59

anyhoo, let's not debug here

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:19:09

anything else worrying anyone about 40? how did people feel the release process went?

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:19:37

tht counts, render/3d is cause compositor is not taking zero copy for some reason

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:19:43

https://www.webmfiles.org/demo-files/

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:19:46

Good test files

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:20:11

Both webm and mp4 show was working for me in Firefox

<@lruzicka:matrix.org>

15:20:19

Hello, late but still.

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:20:20

Both webm and mp4 show as working for me in Firefox

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:20:47

totem wouldn't work, because it needs gstreamer 1.24 afaik, vlc from repos wouldn't work, because we have too latest ffmpeg in fedora

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:21:10

so... it's kinda there for some cases, more will slowly and naturally come

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:21:25

so it doesn't work on lots of things and when it does work it's useless? well, this has been great. :D

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:21:49

I just like seeing hardware light up

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:21:50

it should keep your cpu load far lower in the cases when it works

<@derekenz:fedora.im>

15:21:53

Well Ive been here guess I should say hello

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:23:06

hi derek!

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:23:15

This is a QA specific question, because this is the QA meeting, but I can give my 2c's if it would be helpful :)

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:24:11

I would still like to do a retrospective with every group involved though, so I can wait till that venue as well

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:24:23

(which I need to schedule)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:24:27

yeah, of course

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:24:31

hmm, what about a quick teaser for the full fun?

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:27:58

kparal gave a cookie to frantisekz. They now have 50 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:28:14

This is from my pov only - I had Ben guiding me for F38 and it seemed real slick, then no-one had Ben for F39 and it seemed like *chaos*, and F40 had me with training wheels and Oh Boy did I see it all! Buuuut, I am actually looking forward to F41, if that makes sense? Theres mainly communication lulls I need to get better at, and I have had a few folks reach out to me about some scheduling enhancements they would like, but overall, its really cool to see how everyone pulls together when it comes down to Final to get the release out, and a good one at that too

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:28:57

I would say a few 'tweaks' for F41 might be good, but otherwise, it really does just work

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:31:53

alrighty...let's move on, then

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:32:04

!topic Fedora 41 Change preview

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:32:27

so, the f41 change set is not fixed yet, but i figured we could take a quick early look through https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/41/ChangeSet

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:32:53

there are two obvious big ones: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SwitchToDnf5 and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AnacondaWebUIforFedoraWorkstation

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:33:10

we should probably schedule a meeting with anaconda team soon to check in on the webui plans

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:33:24

with the last two, a year later, another try

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:34:28

yup

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:34:38

dnf5 definitely seems to be happening this time, though

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:34:53

oh yeah, if folks can help test the transition with the update that's in testing for rawhide atm that'd be great

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:35:01

there is a side-tag ready with that

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:35:06

(you have to grab the packages manually though as there's no updates-testing repo for rawhide)

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:36:15

well, shouldn't dnf upgrade dnf --enablerepo=side-tag --repofrompath=side-tag,'https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/repos/f41-build-side-88363/latest/x86_64/' --best --nogpgcheck work?

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:37:28

sure, that counts as 'manually' for me :P

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:37:44

thanks for writing the recipe down, though

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:38:15

anyone see any other significant changes in the list? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ModernizeLiveMedia could probably use a bit of checking that it doesn't inadvertently break/change things

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:39:17

I expect the workstation to drop x11 session by default, and gdm build that'll come will use wayland on nvidia binary driver too, so that could use some testing

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:40:05

this one is the gdm change: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gdm/-/merge_requests/237

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:40:38

oh, yeah, that's pretty significant too

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:42:51

alrighty, i guess that's it?

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:43:02

!topic Test Day / community event status

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:43:06

Sumantro Mukherjee: are you around?

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:45:24

i guess not...

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:45:32

!info call for Fedora 41 Test Days will be coming soon, stay tuned

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:45:50

!topic Open floor

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:45:52

any other business?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:46:17

How are we feeling about ARM / Raspberry Pi?

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:46:33

as in...with f40? or what?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:46:47

Going forward

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:47:02

I guess we can test the vulkan gtk renderer that's used by default on wayland on rawhide, ngl gave us pain in f40

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:47:18

Like, we've had 2 releases in a row now where the out of the box Desktop on Pi basically doesn't work as designed

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:47:30

And there have been concerns about test coverage at times

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:48:00

Have there been concerns with test coverage and Pi?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:48:12

I feel like things got a lot better at the end of the F40 cycle

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:48:29

Lukas Brabec: agreed to test rpi4 regularly on rawhide builds going forward, so that should give us some advantage

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:48:37

Maybe it's only me voicing them

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:49:07

Brandon Nielsen: we fixed gnome on pi4 for final, though

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:49:23

František Zatloukal: wait, the vulkan one is *another* new renderer?! we got one new renderer for 40 and we're getting antoher for 41?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:49:24

Did we? I thought updates are still broke unless you do the magic touch

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

15:49:28

Is there any more testing that could be done earlier for them? (just asking in ignorance!)

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:49:35

yes

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:49:36

Most users are going to go straight to gnome software, see it doesn't work, and give up

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:49:49

it is available in f40 with the env switch

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:49:54

oh, i've no idea what you're talking about there. don't think i've seen that bug.

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:49:58

it's used by default on wayland since gtk 4.15

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:50:08

i was talking about https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/10853

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:50:28

František Zatloukal: so why the heck did we bother with the other one? yeesh.

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:50:41

https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f38-to-f39-40-dnf-system-upgrade-can-fail-on-raspberry-pi/92403

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:50:42

for non-wayland workloads I guess? :D

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:50:59

Anything that does "offline upgrades", like gnome software, just doesn't work

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:51:20

yeah, that one is messy situation

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:51:49

oh, the timestamp thing?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:52:03

Yeah

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:52:08

sure, we know about that one, but...if nobody has a good fix for it, nothing we can do.

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:52:29

(except tell the pi foundation to spend twenty cents and put a goddamn RTC in their hardware)

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:53:08

RPi5 has a RTC, so they heard you adamw

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:53:24

but... everybody has a lot on their plates now, so it's difficult to find relevant people/maints with free cycles, I'd say, and rtc-less hw isn't a priority downstream I guess

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:53:34

isn't that an optional add-in though?

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:53:57

No, the hardware is there, but you need to attach an external battery if you want it to work all the time.

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:54:00

They don'

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:54:05

and on the other hand, rpi5 support... doesn't seem to be coming anytime soon

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:54:12

They don't include the battery by default.

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:54:34

that's going to be an issue, we probably shouldn't say that a board is supported if you attach something to it :(

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:54:36

Well no, but my point was that they do include the RTC hardware now, we just don't suppor the 5 ATM.

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:55:11

Not really, I mean it's the same as a BIOS/RTC battery on a desktop computer, if the battery dies or is removed, those functions cease to work.

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:57:16

I guess my question was mostly, do we believe there is enough manpower finding / fixing issues that the Pi should still be blocking? It looks like the crowd here is generally happy.

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:57:30

I feel bad for Peter Robinson

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:57:59

This could be brought up at the weekly ARM meeting.

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

15:58:13

See if there's support there.

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:58:15

I mean, similarly to the shim issues, I think it makes sense to have that listed as a blocker... or degrade the communicated rpi support

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:59:01

Brandon Nielsen: finding issues is our problem, fixing isn't

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:59:15

i did propose rolling back the release blocker-ness of arm a bit but peter was heavily against it

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:59:20

and fesco decided to keep things as they are

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:59:35

Sure, but we have a good holistic picture to see if they're getting fixed

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:59:59

Since we track such things

<@coremodule:fedora.im>

16:02:44

It's hard for to feel passionately about changing *anything* with ARM as ~75% of the time we don't have quorum at the weekly ARM meetings and end early. These issues and concerns should be being brought up there and worked through as a SIG.

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

16:03:23

alrighty, well, we're over time at this point

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

16:04:27

i guess continue discussion in the arm channel and/or at an arm meeting

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

16:04:30

thanks for coming, folks!

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

16:05:28

!endmeeting