#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:01:33

!startmeeting Quality

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

15:01:34

Meeting started at 2024-06-10 15:01:33 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

15:01:35

The Meeting name is 'Quality'

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:01:38

!topic Roll Call

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:01:42

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:01:43

Adam Williamson (adamwill) - he / him / his

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:01:47

hi folks, who's around for a quality meeting?

<@tflink:fedora.im>

15:01:53

!hello

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:01:54

Tim Flink (tflink)

<@derekenz:fedora.im>

15:01:56

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:01:57

Derek Enz (derekenz)

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:02:00

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:02:01

Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:02:22

(that is, a meeting about quality. quality of meeting is not guaranteed. errors and omissions excepted. the state of california has not tested this meeting's impact on the health of children.)

<@lruzicka:matrix.org>

15:03:42

Aloha

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:03:50

(neither has the state of hawaii)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:05:45

alrighty, let's get going

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:05:59

!topic Fedora 41 status

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:06:12

things still seem to be mostly smooth...new systemd and selinux-policy causing a few issues

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:06:25

python 3.13 will be coming up soon

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:08:59

there's a proposal to make anaconda a native wayland app which has implications for keyboard layouts and vnc on the installer images: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/L3GXMWJXUHAMOJJCJAD3QZSNXIXPR2HP/

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:09:11

and one to make the Workstation live wayland-only: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/H25H7CEETFMEICILNKL5ITTY3HLRGWHB/

<@lruzicka:matrix.org>

15:10:05

This will be the "new" Anaconda?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:10:17

Old right? New is delayed until 42?

<@tflink:fedora.im>

15:11:41

i thought it was just the web based anaconda that was delayed to 42

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:12:05

Are any spins already using systemd-localed for guessing desired keyboard layout?

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:12:07

no, this is a different thing

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:12:16

this is making current anaconda wayland-native on the installer images. in f41.

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:12:33

Brandon Nielsen: not sure about that

<@lruzicka:matrix.org>

15:12:54

ha, seems likes fun :D

<@lruzicka:matrix.org>

15:13:05

ha, seems like fun :D

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:13:14

if we have quality concerns about any of these, we should get them in

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:13:18

can anyone think of anything?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:14:38

My "quality concern" is just hardware where wayland doesn't work for some reason, but regular testing should catch that, I don't think it's a special concern.

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:14:51

Same with keyboard really

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:15:23

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

15:15:24

František Zatloukal (frantisekz)

<@kparal:matrix.org>

15:15:44

this anaconda-native-on-wayland affects also netinst?

<@derekenz:fedora.im>

15:15:52

So no X11 support correct?

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:15:55

should imo

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:16:03

Kamil Páral: it *mainly* affects netinst

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:16:05

the change is about everything else than lives

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:16:07

(and server dvd)

<@kparal:matrix.org>

15:16:32

ok, in that case people with problematic hardware probably will have no fallback to install Fedora, right?

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:16:44

they can use a live with xorg

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:16:47

some spin

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:16:56

in theory yes, the question is whether there really is such "problematic" hardware any more

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:17:02

so problematic you can't run the installer

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:17:12

i know people complain a lot, but isn't it mainly about 3D acceleration support?

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:17:26

as I understand it, on spins without wayland, it should continue to run as x app still

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:17:31

workstation live has defaulted to wayland even on nvidia for several releases, apparently

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:17:57

František Zatloukal: with the Workstation change, though, that's only non-blocking spins (neither KDE nor Workstation live will have X in 41)

<@kparal:matrix.org>

15:18:00

I thought the fallback path was still present

<@lruzicka:matrix.org>

15:18:07

or a text installation :D

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:18:12

Kamil Páral: it is, but it's a question of whether it actually gets used...

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:18:38

*Looks nervously at broken Vulkan on Pi4*

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:19:02

Luckily doesn't use an installer I guess

<@kparal:matrix.org>

15:19:36

I don't have a problem with the change, it's needed sooner or later anyway, I'm just curious about any workarounds for people which have some issues

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:19:45

you can take a look on wayland exceptions at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gdm/-/blob/main/data/61-gdm.rules.in?ref_type=heads

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:19:48

(fyi)

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:21:14

Brandon Nielsen: I'd say we'll rollback to ngl gtk renderer if the rpi4 issues aren't fixed in time for release

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:21:28

Looks like VM guests are excluded?

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:21:49

František Zatloukal: all i see there is "Hi1710 chipsets", and nomodeset without simple framebuffer (which i think doesn't apply to fedora), then a bunch of stuff specific to the proprietary driver (which would not be relevant here)

<@kparal:matrix.org>

15:22:40

VMs should be running on wayland, at least on my pc they are

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:22:44

oh, and weird virt cases, yes.

<@kparal:matrix.org>

15:22:59

but a good question is vmware, virtualbox and others

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:23:27

vms - just some cases, like pcie passthrough

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:24:09

also, the block labeled "# Disable wayland when there are multiple virtual gpus" doesn't actually...*do* it...

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:24:44

It's aspirational

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:24:58

we do live qa in the quality meeting, folks

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:25:01

live and without a safety net

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:25:24

i guess we can ask the change maintainers if they've considered all these cases

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:25:35

i can write an email for that after the meeting

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:26:25

!action adamw to raise question of known cases where wayland doesn't work on the 'anaconda as native wayland app' and 'Workstation no X.org' changes

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:27:45

alrighty, any other concerns about 41 at this point?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:29:07

Has the revert to "old" anaconda made it yet? I've been out of the loop for a couple of weeks.

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:29:17

it isn't planned afaik now

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:29:25

it should happen after branch point

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:29:34

right, the plan is to leave new anaconda in rawhide and disable it in f41 after branching

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:29:44

Okay, awesome, thanks!

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:30:07

there should be a big grub2 rebase coming

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:30:11

Was there some discussion on discourse about it? I can't find it now

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:30:13

that can rough the waters

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:31:05

I am not sure where I've seen it formally decided now

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:31:19

Brandon Nielsen: the revert plan for anaconda? no, it was discussed on matrix i think

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:31:27

there was some chat in the anaconda and workstation channels

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:32:45

František Zatloukal: fun. any idea on timing for that?

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:33:05

idk, just seen the announcement

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:33:09

!info Rawhide will keep anaconda web UI; the reversion to GTK UI for Fedora 41 will happen immediately after branching

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:33:21

(from 2.06 to 2.12)

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:33:40

František Zatloukal: where did you see that?

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:34:28

"GRUB2 rebase (from 2.06 to 2.12) landing soon on rawhide" on fedora-devel

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:35:50

oh, from last month

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:35:52

didn't catch that

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:36:08

good spot, that will indeed be interesting...

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:37:33

!topic Test Day / community event status

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:37:37

Sumantro Mukherjee: around?

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:39:48

looks like sumantro isn't around, but i did see a big ticket dump

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:40:38

!info upcoming test events for F41: https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/780 (IoT), https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/781 (CoreOS), https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/782 (GNOME), https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/783 (i18n). dates to come

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:41:13

anything else on this?

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:43:40

Not from me

<@lruzicka:matrix.org>

15:44:24

Not at the moment.

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:44:29

!topic Open floor

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:44:36

alrighty then, anything else on anything else? :D

<@nielsenb:fedora.im>

15:45:12

No, the one other question I had answered itself

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:45:24

ai questions, huh

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:46:41

well then, everyone gets 14 minutes back. you're welcome

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:46:43

thanks for coming, folks

<@frantisekz:fedora.im>

15:47:06

thanks Adam!

<@derekenz:fedora.im>

15:47:14

Thanks

<@adamwill:fedora.im>

15:47:56

!endmeeting