2024-10-10 13:01:37 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !startmeeting Fedora DEI Team meeting – 2024-10-10
2024-10-10 13:01:38 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-10-10 13:01:37 UTC
2024-10-10 13:02:04 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora DEI Team meeting – 2024-10-10'
2024-10-10 13:02:09 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !meetingname diversity-team
2024-10-10 13:02:10 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now diversity-team
2024-10-10 13:02:18 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Wait.
2024-10-10 13:02:18 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !meetingname diversity
2024-10-10 13:02:19 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now diversity
2024-10-10 13:02:22 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Agenda
2024-10-10 13:02:29 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info (1) Intros, welcomes, hellos
2024-10-10 13:02:31 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info (2) Team announcements & news
2024-10-10 13:02:33 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info (3) DEI Advisor updates to the team
2024-10-10 13:02:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info (4) Follow-ups from last meeting
2024-10-10 13:02:38 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info (5) Ticket-driven discussion
2024-10-10 13:02:40 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info (6) Open floor
2024-10-10 13:02:46 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Intros, welcomes, hellos
2024-10-10 13:02:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> If this is your first time at a DEI Team meeting, please say hello!
2024-10-10 13:02:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> If you have questions before we start the meeting, now is also a good time to ask.
2024-10-10 13:02:53 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !hi
2024-10-10 13:02:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Justin W. Flory (jflory7) - he / him / his
2024-10-10 13:03:06 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !group members diversity-team
2024-10-10 13:03:08 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> !hi
2024-10-10 13:03:09 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jona Azizaj (jonatoni) - she / her / hers
2024-10-10 13:03:11 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Members of diversity-team: Amita Sharma, bee2502, bt0dotninja, chhavi, csutherl, emma kidney, isagordillo, jflory7 (@jflory7:fedora.im, @fca:fedoraproject.org), Jona Azizaj, Ashlyn Knox, marinaz, Tegan-Jean Hillman, Nikhil Kathole, orionstar25, pyadav, ramyaparimi, recursedd, Marie Nordin, Robert Wright, Sarah Thornton, siddharthvipul1, tatica, x3mboy
2024-10-10 13:03:13 <@ekidney:matrix.org> !hi
2024-10-10 13:03:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> emma kidney (ekidney) - she / her / hers
2024-10-10 13:03:22 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Helloooooo good people :)
2024-10-10 13:03:32 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I hope your week is going well.
2024-10-10 13:03:43 <@misc:ephaone.org> !hi
2024-10-10 13:03:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @misc:ephaone.org Matrix Account defined
2024-10-10 13:04:01 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We will give it 2-3 minutes, and then I propose we democratically decide the meeting agenda topics for today, because I did not prep one much in advance.
2024-10-10 13:04:04 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Hey misc!
2024-10-10 13:04:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> PS – Add your Matrix account to https://accounts.fedoraproject.org so zodbot knows who you are :D
2024-10-10 13:04:43 <@misc:ephaone.org> I have seen Terminator, I am not sure I want zodbot to know me :p 
2024-10-10 13:05:05 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I am not sure if Terminator had open source code though :P
2024-10-10 13:05:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Given the crowd we have today, I am thinking probably the Flock event policy topic and maybe a topic about the Fedora 41 Release Party?
2024-10-10 13:05:31 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We can review in a bit.
2024-10-10 13:05:43 <@ekidney:matrix.org> sounds good to me 
2024-10-10 13:05:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info Present: @jflory7, @jonatoni, @ekidney, @misc
2024-10-10 13:05:57 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Then let's get this show on the road 😎
2024-10-10 13:06:04 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Team announcements & news
2024-10-10 13:06:22 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Anyone have news, updates, and other things happening in the open source space or in Fedora?
2024-10-10 13:06:30 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I have one but I need to find the tab 👀
2024-10-10 13:06:51 <@misc:ephaone.org> I heard council looked at some ticket
2024-10-10 13:07:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> misc: That is one of the main meeting topics I figure we will discuss today :)
2024-10-10 13:07:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info === "Improving DEI in Open Source Community Leadership" ===
2024-10-10 13:07:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !link https://uceducation.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_eVVYChpxMlpp7Yq
2024-10-10 13:08:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info "The purpose of this study is to gather thoughts and experiences about diversity and inclusion in Open Source Community Leadership. Participants will be shown different widgets to pick from. This will help create a design for a tool to help Open Source community members make smart choices when selecting leaders or board members."
2024-10-10 13:08:19 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I saw this survey shared out in the CHAOSS community
2024-10-10 13:08:24 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And it felt relevant for folks here too
2024-10-10 13:08:30 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I hope to fill it sometime today
2024-10-10 13:09:12 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Oh, one more update
2024-10-10 13:09:34 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info === GNOME Asia 2024 — 6-8 December 2024 — Bengaluru, India ===
2024-10-10 13:09:36 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GNOME_Asia_2024
2024-10-10 13:10:27 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info A group of Fedora contributors and Ambassadors in India are helping co-organize GNOME Asia at the Red Hat office in Bengaluru. Following our Flock 2024 workshop, this aligns with our goals of supporting more regional events and diverse communities beyond the typical Eurocentric focus of our flagship events.
2024-10-10 13:10:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> <eof>
2024-10-10 13:10:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I mean, I could probably find more things, but we have an agenda :)
2024-10-10 13:10:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Anyone else want to drop something in?
2024-10-10 13:11:20 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ## Announcements, going once…
2024-10-10 13:11:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ## Announcements, going twice…
2024-10-10 13:11:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ## Announcements, going thrice…
2024-10-10 13:11:55 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 💥
2024-10-10 13:12:02 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic DEI Advisor updates to the team
2024-10-10 13:12:11 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Jona Azizaj (she/her): Anything you want to share or identify from the Council?
2024-10-10 13:13:11 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> Only the event policy that was discussed yesterday - but we will talk about it later 
2024-10-10 13:13:20 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> when discussing the tickets
2024-10-10 13:13:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info Flock event policy ticket has updates, but this will be a meeting discussion topic today!
2024-10-10 13:13:53 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Works for me :)
2024-10-10 13:13:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Follow-ups from last meeting
2024-10-10 13:14:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info How This Works: We review past action items from the last meeting. For each action item, we note a quick update on its status and then move forward.
2024-10-10 13:14:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Argh, I am trying to pull up the Meetbot logs from our last meeting, but I am having a hard time finding them in Mote.
2024-10-10 13:15:13 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I can only find logs going back to July…
2024-10-10 13:15:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Maybe we skip this section for now since I don't have things prepared.
2024-10-10 13:15:31 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think we keep a good tab on our actions via GitLab
2024-10-10 13:15:48 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info Skipping this topic due to missing previous meeting logs.
2024-10-10 13:15:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Ticket-driven discussion
2024-10-10 13:16:17 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !link https://gitlab.com/fedora/dei/home/-/milestones/7
2024-10-10 13:16:31 <@jflory7:fedora.im> OK, let's take a quick triage
2024-10-10 13:16:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Of course, _#34 DEI policy for Flock location_ is relevant for today
2024-10-10 13:17:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We don't have a ticket yet for the Release Party.
2024-10-10 13:17:29 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> and maybe Q2/Q3 reports - if we have any volunteers (?)
2024-10-10 13:17:40 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Jona Azizaj (she/her): Yes, true 🫣
2024-10-10 13:17:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> So, #43
2024-10-10 13:17:58 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think these three topics will be enough for one meeting
2024-10-10 13:18:02 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Let's see what we can get through.
2024-10-10 13:18:15 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I am going to suggest #43 first, then #34, and the Release Party topic as time allows.
2024-10-10 13:18:17 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Sound good?
2024-10-10 13:18:57 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> +1
2024-10-10 13:19:03 <@misc:ephaone.org> sure
2024-10-10 13:19:09 <@ekidney:matrix.org> +1
2024-10-10 13:19:14 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Awesome!
2024-10-10 13:19:15 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Here we go.
2024-10-10 13:19:29 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Ticket #43: "DEI Team 2024 Q2 Quarterly Report"
2024-10-10 13:19:39 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !link https://gitlab.com/fedora/dei/home/-/issues/43
2024-10-10 13:20:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> OK, so, I did stand up to take this one on… but I am really fully packed this month and I am having some unexpected medical things that are coming up this week and taking a lot of my time 🙈
2024-10-10 13:20:22 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I don't think I will be able to deliver this soon
2024-10-10 13:20:38 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I could use help, but I can trade the help for some brainstorming in this meeting on what topics would be good to highlight.
2024-10-10 13:20:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Is anyone interested in taking on this quarterly report for Q2?
2024-10-10 13:21:26 <@ekidney:matrix.org> what are the months of q2 they always confuse me
2024-10-10 13:21:33 <@jflory7:fedora.im> April to June!
2024-10-10 13:21:47 <@jflory7:fedora.im> https://gitlab.com/fedora/dei/home/-/milestones/5
2024-10-10 13:21:56 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !link https://gitlab.com/fedora/dei/home/-/milestones/5#tab-issues
2024-10-10 13:22:24 <@ekidney:matrix.org> oh ok so it would be more about the flock prep etc 
2024-10-10 13:22:41 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Flock prep, Fedora Week of Diversity, and some improvements to our onboarding workflow.
2024-10-10 13:22:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Oh, and the new repo for DEI event media (pictures, videos, slides, etc.)
2024-10-10 13:23:07 <@ekidney:matrix.org> I can take that on 🙂 
2024-10-10 13:23:15 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 🫶
2024-10-10 13:23:24 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> busy quarter 😅
2024-10-10 13:23:35 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> 🎉
2024-10-10 13:23:48 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Emma Kidney: Yay, that would really help a lot! Thanks. Do you want us to spend some time brainstorming now on the main topics, or do you feel like you have enough guidance on how to tackle this one?
2024-10-10 13:24:18 <@ekidney:matrix.org> I feel like I have enough with what u provided me i can look at the tickets etc for more info 🙂 
2024-10-10 13:24:37 <@jflory7:fedora.im> OK, super.
2024-10-10 13:24:48 <@jflory7:fedora.im> What timeline makes the most sense for you on this draft?
2024-10-10 13:25:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Should we target for two weeks from now, by our next meeting? Or do you think you can get it sooner?
2024-10-10 13:25:24 <@ekidney:matrix.org> I'll try do it by next week! 
2024-10-10 13:25:56 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Amazing. Let's set a due date for first draft by 17 October, and then that gives us Friday for any team feedback before sending it over to the Community Blog editors.
2024-10-10 13:26:24 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Happily, I think we will have an influx of new folks on the CommBlog editor team soon. There was a large interest in the new meeting poll published recently.
2024-10-10 13:26:38 <@ekidney:matrix.org> nice 😄 
2024-10-10 13:27:24 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info @jflory7 will swap this quarterly report ticket with @ekidney. The 2024 Q2 milestone tracks all of the things we worked on in that quarter. Major highlights were a new events media git repo for photos, videos, and slides; Fedora Week of Diversity; and preparations for Flock.
2024-10-10 13:27:58 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !action [due: 2024-10-17] @ekidney Create first draft of 2024 Q2 report for DEI Team review, then share with CommBlog editors for review after DEI Team +1's
2024-10-10 13:28:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Fantastic. I think this one is covered.
2024-10-10 13:28:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Anything else on the 2024 Q2 report before moving on to the Flock event policy ticket?
2024-10-10 13:28:40 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ## #43, going once…
2024-10-10 13:28:55 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ## #43, going twice…
2024-10-10 13:28:59 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> and Q3 report 😅
2024-10-10 13:29:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ## #43, going thrice…
2024-10-10 13:29:26 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Jona Azizaj (she/her): Maybe we revisit in the next meeting, since Q2 should be closed out by our next meeting.
2024-10-10 13:29:33 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We can chat more about it during open floor too.
2024-10-10 13:29:47 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> sounds good 🙂
2024-10-10 13:30:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Ticket #34: "DEI policy for Flock location"
2024-10-10 13:30:09 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !link https://gitlab.com/fedora/dei/home/-/issues/34
2024-10-10 13:30:19 <@jflory7:fedora.im> OK! So, this finally came up in the Council meeting yesterday.
2024-10-10 13:30:24 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And we got a lively discussion!
2024-10-10 13:30:29 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I can summarize the main points a bit…
2024-10-10 13:30:34 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Would that be helpful?
2024-10-10 13:30:41 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Then we can discuss how to respond to the feedback
2024-10-10 13:31:20 <@misc:ephaone.org> I read the log
2024-10-10 13:31:49 <@misc:ephaone.org> but from what I remember, there is 1) not using WRt 2) wether hackfest re included or not 3) the non goal and visa clarification 
2024-10-10 13:32:00 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Basically, yeah.
2024-10-10 13:32:15 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The easy feedback is to avoid using acronyms and short-hand, like "wrt".
2024-10-10 13:32:19 <@jflory7:fedora.im> That was minor nitpick though
2024-10-10 13:32:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think the second two pieces of feedback are more substantial
2024-10-10 13:32:33 <@misc:ephaone.org> sure, that's why I asked for people to proofread for 3 months :p 
2024-10-10 13:32:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> misc: Heheh but sometimes things come out with a wider group of feedback :D
2024-10-10 13:32:56 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> meeting logs link for reference: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/meeting_matrix_fedoraproject-org/2024-10-09/council.2024-10-09-13.58.html
2024-10-10 13:32:57 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think the discussion was good
2024-10-10 13:33:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Thanks Jona Azizaj (she/her).
2024-10-10 13:33:18 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I have a strong opinion about the hackfests topic, and I am still thinking on the visa topic.
2024-10-10 13:33:41 <@misc:ephaone.org> so hackfest, my idea was to keep them included. However, maybe we can get a compromise by having hackfest participant to decide on location or get their input 
2024-10-10 13:33:51 <@misc:ephaone.org> after all, hackfest are limited in attendance
2024-10-10 13:33:56 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And I know I might be doing a 180° turn from what I said before on hackfests. I can't remember what I said before about hackfests, but my opinion is evolving on this over the last few months and getting into Red Hat budget season.
2024-10-10 13:35:01 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Right. Usually we are looking at groups the size of 5-15 people
2024-10-10 13:35:51 <@misc:ephaone.org> but, for people who followed my talks in devconf, in the past, even event limited like hackfest caused controversy in other community 
2024-10-10 13:36:39 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think as far as an official, ratified policy goes, hackfests should be removed from the policy. The reason I feel this way is that this may end up creating a requirement of Europe/USA locations for events, even if that is not the intention. This could be limiting for regional teams. Consider this example with a potential team in Nigeria, who want to get together and organize something regionally, but our policy would technically require them to choose a location outside of Nigeria to meet.
2024-10-10 13:36:42 <@misc:ephaone.org> (for example, in 2019, wikimedia foundation did a strategy meeting in tunisia for ~30 persons, and at least 1 queer guy decided to skip it )
2024-10-10 13:36:57 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think we can provide guidelines and best practices on how to organize an inclusive event, and this makes sense for hackfests.
2024-10-10 13:37:33 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is a fair point. But I feel like for hackfests, they usually take into account the people whom are key for the hackfest to attend.
2024-10-10 13:37:59 <@misc:ephaone.org> There is other location in africa that are safer than nigeria
2024-10-10 13:38:02 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And our hackfests are usually smaller than that Wikimedia example, both in attendee size and overall scope of the hackfests
2024-10-10 13:38:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> misc: But say that a group of ten Nigerians want to get together in Lagos to have a planning meeting for 2025 meetups and release parties. This policy, as I understand it, would require those ten Nigerians to leave Nigeria to have their hackfest.
2024-10-10 13:38:45 <@misc:ephaone.org> but the policy also say that the council can decide to ignore the policy, provided it publish a explanation 
2024-10-10 13:39:04 <@misc:ephaone.org> so there is no need to amend the policy, the council will just need to tell why they decided to ignore the policy
2024-10-10 13:39:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> My compromise is that I think we should omit hackfests from this policy for the time being, and make the policy very focused on Flock and Flock only. Because we have a more established process for Flock, and we are appealing to a much larger group of people for Flock than our hackfests.
2024-10-10 13:40:09 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I don't like this clause that allows conditional ignorance of policy. It feels like it leaves the door _too_ open, in my opinion
2024-10-10 13:40:43 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ** typing intensifies **
2024-10-10 13:40:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> :D
2024-10-10 13:40:44 <@misc:ephaone.org> no, my goal is to make sure council get roasted when the policy will be ignored, after seeing how that happened in osm
2024-10-10 13:41:01 <@ekidney:matrix.org> I like the idea of having the council having to have a reason as to why they chose somewhere that didnt follow the policy - makes them carefully consider what the best option it 
2024-10-10 13:42:04 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> I'm also +1 to make it focused only on Flock for now
2024-10-10 13:42:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> misc: Not sure if serious or joking 😅
2024-10-10 13:43:05 <@misc:ephaone.org> on roasting ? I am kinda serious
2024-10-10 13:43:23 <@misc:ephaone.org> (I just have concept of a plan for the roasting)
2024-10-10 13:43:34 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Emma Kidney: For Flock, I can see that making a lot of sense. Who knows, maybe we do something crazy one day and decide to break the formula of US/EU for Flock. In that case, a justification is definitely helpful and necessary, I think. My concern with hackfests is that this creates more overhead for something that I think teams should be more empowered to decide on their own.
2024-10-10 13:43:34 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 
2024-10-10 13:43:34 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Part of my motivation here can be summarized in a toot that I shared recently.
2024-10-10 13:43:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !link https://floss.social/@jwf/113250560123634665
2024-10-10 13:43:57 <@misc:ephaone.org> but so, where did we do hackfests in the past ?
2024-10-10 13:44:19 <@jflory7:fedora.im> misc: Oh, for sure USA and EU locations mainly. We did used to do some in APAC and LATAM a long, long time ago though.
2024-10-10 13:44:41 <@jflory7:fedora.im> My secret motivation is, I want Fedora to do more smaller, regional events. And hackfests for smaller groups of regional folks could be a really important piece for that.
2024-10-10 13:45:00 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Ultimately, hackfest funding _does_ have to get approved by the Council. Policy or no policy.
2024-10-10 13:45:24 <@misc:ephaone.org> so the actual policy say:
2024-10-10 13:45:24 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And we do have a DEI Advisor on the Council who helps represents the concerns and challenges that this policy is thinking about.
2024-10-10 13:45:27 <@misc:ephaone.org> "Only a event requiring international travel for a sizable portion of the attendees shall be covered by that policy" 
2024-10-10 13:45:42 <@misc:ephaone.org> a hackfest for nigerian people with a non sizable amount of visotor wouldn't be covered 
2024-10-10 13:46:25 <@misc:ephaone.org> now if you have 1 person in nigeria and 9 in mali, sure, it would be covered by the letter of the policy
2024-10-10 13:46:25 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think what "sizable portion" means is subjective
2024-10-10 13:46:40 <@misc:ephaone.org> well, do we want a number ?
2024-10-10 13:46:52 <@ekidney:matrix.org> could it be defined? maybe a percentage? 
2024-10-10 13:47:19 <@misc:ephaone.org> well, a number would be subjective too 
2024-10-10 13:47:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And pretend for a moment that me, Emma, and Jona all go to Nigeria for this hackfest. Because we go, does this now mean there is an _extra_ step for approval? I worry that we are making the organizational burden too high for hackfests, and some people may read the policy and think that they cannot do this in their country.
2024-10-10 13:47:29 <@misc:ephaone.org> just subjective before rather that on the spot 
2024-10-10 13:48:09 <@misc:ephaone.org> depend on the size, if there is 20 persons, no, if there is 4 people, well, the council can override the policy
2024-10-10 13:48:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> A percentage would help, but I still would prefer it more for Flock than hackfests. I am really +100 on everything we are discussing for Flock, but I think trying to cover hackfests too in this policy is extending us too thin. And we don't know yet what the implementation of this policy will look like. Flock is the perfect event to trial this policy on, because we have an immense amount of control over how Flock is organized, and it is an event that is truly meant to be globally accessible. This may not be the case always for hackfests.
2024-10-10 13:49:29 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I guess, I just don't like the idea that every time we want to do something in a new place, the Council is going to have to override this policy. In my ideal world, these overrides may happen more often than not.
2024-10-10 13:49:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But, I am prepared to admit that maybe I am really off on this one and I am the one that needs to re-evaluate
2024-10-10 13:49:51 <@misc:ephaone.org> the council is already going to discuss the budget, no ?
2024-10-10 13:50:34 <@jflory7:fedora.im> misc: Yes, the Council discusses hackfest budget. My concern with a policy is that it really does feel like we are saying only North America and Europe matter for events that matter for Fedora
2024-10-10 13:50:35 <@misc:ephaone.org> the policy also say "Smaller events aiming at a regional or national audience can be exempted of this policy." 
2024-10-10 13:50:38 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And that sits weirdly with me
2024-10-10 13:51:04 <@misc:ephaone.org> so that also a question of what people aim with the event
2024-10-10 13:51:08 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I could compromise with that, I guess. But all hackfests are smaller events. I guess the regional/national focus is what varies though.
2024-10-10 13:51:25 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Oh, wow, 8 minutes left for this meeting 🫣
2024-10-10 13:51:30 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I didn't do a good job of time-keeping.
2024-10-10 13:51:42 <@misc:ephaone.org> yes, if the goal is to bring people from africa, that's not the same as making a hackfest dedicated on bootc integration, for example
2024-10-10 13:51:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> misc: I see your point there
2024-10-10 13:52:07 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Hmmm
2024-10-10 13:52:48 <@misc:ephaone.org> like I was not planning to prevent russian community to do a russian translaton
2024-10-10 13:52:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Emma Kidney, Jona Azizaj (she/her): What do you both think is right? Should we continue to include hackfests in this policy, but add an exemption for events that target a regional or national audience? Or should hackfests be omitted?
2024-10-10 13:53:20 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think I might be taking up too much oxygen in this discussion 😅
2024-10-10 13:54:41 <@ekidney:matrix.org> I know where ur coming from Justin but I am leaning more for keeping them included and judging it case by case since there's more variation 
2024-10-10 13:55:17 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Makes sense.
2024-10-10 13:55:20 <@misc:ephaone.org> we can also add a 5 year revision of the policy and give that to future us 
2024-10-10 13:55:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Jona Azizaj (she/her), what do you think?
2024-10-10 13:55:43 <@jflory7:fedora.im> No, I don't think this makes sense, best to follow the existing Policy Change Policy.
2024-10-10 13:56:27 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I am coming around to this idea that hackfests should be included, but with some carve-outs about events that focus on regional/local/national groups or teams
2024-10-10 13:57:06 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> maybe this sentence helps - but I'm not sure also how council feels to judge case by case and making exemptions
2024-10-10 13:57:36 <@misc:ephaone.org> well, they can delegate to us to judge if needed
2024-10-10 13:57:40 <@jflory7:fedora.im> OK, so we have three minutes. And we didn't get to the part about visas. However, I think this carve-out for regional/local interests does also partially address the visa question.
2024-10-10 13:57:47 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> I know they want the DEI team more involved on this
2024-10-10 13:57:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I am going to write a `!proposed`, and then let's take a quick vote.
2024-10-10 13:59:13 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !proposed The event policy will be scoped explicitly to Flock to Fedora and Fedora-funded hackfests. New language will be added for hackfests that provides exemption for hackfests that focus on a regional, local, or national group or audience. The Council retains the ability to override the policy by publishing a public explanation.
2024-10-10 13:59:20 <@jflory7:fedora.im> +1/+0/-1 votes?
2024-10-10 13:59:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> +1 from me
2024-10-10 13:59:55 <@misc:ephaone.org> visa, that's quite easy, that's not governed by formal laws, so can't be evaluated at the time of the bid process/location choice. You can decide only if you have a rough idea of the audience, and you can't have it without budget nor location 
2024-10-10 14:00:07 <@misc:ephaone.org> (and the whole policy is looking at laws to decide)
2024-10-10 14:00:31 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We are at time and I don't know if we have to yield the channel to another team
2024-10-10 14:00:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We have to wrap this up :)
2024-10-10 14:00:38 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Last call for votes?
2024-10-10 14:00:41 <@ekidney:matrix.org> +1
2024-10-10 14:00:45 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> +1
2024-10-10 14:00:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> misc?
2024-10-10 14:01:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I have to run and drive another meeting, but I do feel like we have alignment here
2024-10-10 14:01:24 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We came to a compromise!
2024-10-10 14:01:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !agreed The event policy will be scoped explicitly to Flock to Fedora and Fedora-funded hackfests. New language will be added for hackfests that provides exemption for hackfests that focus on a regional, local, or national group or audience. The Council retains the ability to override the policy by publishing a public explanation.
2024-10-10 14:01:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Thanks folks for being here and taking the time today!
2024-10-10 14:01:45 <@ekidney:matrix.org> thanks 🙂 
2024-10-10 14:01:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This was a long discussion but it was really helpful for me to hear from you all on this
2024-10-10 14:01:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Have a great rest of your week!
2024-10-10 14:01:49 <@misc:ephaone.org> I disagree with hardcoding the name of the event
2024-10-10 14:01:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !endmeeting