2024-11-20 17:00:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !startmeeting CentOS Hyperscale SIG
2024-11-20 17:00:32 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-11-20 17:00:29 UTC
2024-11-20 17:00:32 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'CentOS Hyperscale SIG'
2024-11-20 17:00:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Roll call
2024-11-20 17:00:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-20 17:00:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-11-20 17:00:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-11-20 17:00:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-11-20 17:03:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'll wait a couple more minutes since I just pinged everyone now
2024-11-20 17:03:56 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-20 17:03:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2024-11-20 17:04:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> we have people! yay
2024-11-20 17:04:09 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> howdy!
2024-11-20 17:05:14 <@rcolebaugh:matrix.org> !hi
2024-11-20 17:05:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Raymond Colebaugh (rcolebaugh) - he / him / his
2024-11-20 17:07:27 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> okay I think that's it, so let's move onto...
2024-11-20 17:07:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Followups
2024-11-20 17:07:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> we have this perennial calendar issue
2024-11-20 17:08:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> because the current CentOS calendar requires PRs to update and does not support meetings pinned to local time
2024-11-20 17:08:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm trying to sort it out over at CentOS Promo, but seems there's some sort of consensus to eventually use the Fedora calendar somehow (which makes sense since we use Fedora meeting rooms already)
2024-11-20 17:08:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> should we just jump there first?
2024-11-20 17:08:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2024-11-20 17:09:20 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think it's just a fedora-infrastructure ticket to get a calendar created
2024-11-20 17:09:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> open source has both problems - people who always wait to get consensus and people who just do their own things :P
2024-11-20 17:09:33 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> seems like it makes most sense to use fed cal 
2024-11-20 17:09:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> if it's not infra I'm sure they'll tell us where to re-file
2024-11-20 17:10:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> do we need to vote on this? or only if someone objects
2024-11-20 17:10:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> only if someone objects
2024-11-20 17:10:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> let's wait a couple of mins, then I have one more follow-up
2024-11-20 17:11:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> do we want to ask for a centos-sig-hyperscale calendar or a global centos calendar?
2024-11-20 17:11:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm more inclined to suggest we do the former
2024-11-20 17:11:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> I think the SIG one
2024-11-20 17:12:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> Shaun is thinking about how to get a unified view, but there's probably an iCal aggregator that can be used for that. plus that means we can restrict admin rights to mess with this calendar to just us
2024-11-20 17:12:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> right
2024-11-20 17:14:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !info The CentOS calendar has been problematic, leading to people missing meetings due to bugs and missing features.
2024-11-20 17:14:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !agreed CentOS Hyperscale SIG will move its calendar to calendar.fedoraproject.org
2024-11-20 17:14:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6: do you want to take care of this task?
2024-11-20 17:15:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> yup, I'll do this
2024-11-20 17:15:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !action Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6 will move the CentOS Hyperscale SIG calendar to calendar.fedoraproject.org under its own top-level calendar
2024-11-20 17:16:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> ok, next thing
2024-11-20 17:16:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> Davide and I talked to the perf maintainer about the feasibility of packaging Perf standalone back in LPC two months ago
2024-11-20 17:17:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oh?
2024-11-20 17:17:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> he's supportive and said he takes patches if we want to make the packaging more modular etc.
2024-11-20 17:17:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> Been busy and there's family stuff so I did not have time for this last month, but I'm close to getting the latest upstream tarball (which is sadly 6.9.0) built and we have a git.centos.org repo now
2024-11-20 17:17:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> 
2024-11-20 17:17:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> perf wasn't the problematic one generally... bpftool is
2024-11-20 17:17:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it has its own versioning and the kernel spec honors this
2024-11-20 17:18:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but splitting perf out has some other benefits
2024-11-20 17:18:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we should try to get this in place in fedora too
2024-11-20 17:18:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> 
2024-11-20 17:18:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> - I can make head or tail of the weird way this thing consumes build flags. Currently I just chose to not override CXXFLAGS and LDFLAGS because otherwise the build fails
2024-11-20 17:18:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> - we can get 6.12 built (I tried generating the tarball myself and some files are missing IIRC, for 6.11, so there's some things we need to fix)
2024-11-20 17:18:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> I think I'll keep this in experimental for now until
2024-11-20 17:18:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> but yeah standalone packaging makes it much easier to iterate. e.g. enabling demangling support is trivial and this builds in a few minutes
2024-11-20 17:18:53 <@salimma:fedora.im> yes
2024-11-20 17:18:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> sorry, meant to get to that
2024-11-20 17:19:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> once we promote this out of experimental we should have a Fedora Change Proposal to switch Fedora over too
2024-11-20 17:19:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll ask jforbes on the side if he's around today and invite him to co-own the CP / comaintain
2024-11-20 17:20:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> it was not problematic to build. it's problematic if you want a newer perf which Meta often does
2024-11-20 17:20:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> he seems to be around in #kernel:fedoraproject.org 
2024-11-20 17:20:17 <@jforbes:fedora.im> I am around, looking at context
2024-11-20 17:20:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> or if you want added features (i have a months-old request to turn on cxa demangle that I utterly failed at when perf was built in kernel-tools)
2024-11-20 17:20:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> ohai! :)
2024-11-20 17:20:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> bpftool is a problem because koji's NVRA uniqueness check has been failing builds
2024-11-20 17:20:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> you must be watching mentions of your username or something :)
2024-11-20 17:21:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for the 6.12 rebase, I'll be mangling the release to include a suffix with the kernel version
2024-11-20 17:21:27 <@jforbes:fedora.im> I do get notifications
2024-11-20 17:21:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for the bpftool package
2024-11-20 17:21:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> perf also has funny versioning
2024-11-20 17:22:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> the soname is 0.0.1 and the python module is 0.1 ... and the Java binding has an invalid name according to rpmlint :P
2024-11-20 17:22:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> 
2024-11-20 17:22:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> but once we get 'rpmlint parity' with the Fedora package I think it's good to come out of experimental
2024-11-20 17:22:14 <@jforbes:fedora.im> So bpftool is supposed to be a separate package. The RHEL maintainer was working on that, and was supposed to let me know when it was approved in Fedora so that I could merge his MR to turn it off in the kenrel build
2024-11-20 17:22:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> also upstream seems to build with -O6 by default which is... huh
2024-11-20 17:22:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah, the MR needs rebasing: https://gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-ark/-/merge_requests/3338
2024-11-20 17:22:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oh crap
2024-11-20 17:22:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I need to review the package 😂
2024-11-20 17:23:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'll do that today
2024-11-20 17:23:37 <@jforbes:fedora.im> So yeah, it's your fault :)
2024-11-20 17:23:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> so jforbes would you like to co-own a change proposal to split off perf in Fedora? maybe targeting F42 or F43 depending on how fast I can get this done
2024-11-20 17:23:42 <@jforbes:fedora.im> haha
2024-11-20 17:24:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> this should be a self-contained change, right? it should not affect end users
2024-11-20 17:24:13 <@jforbes:fedora.im> I do not see the advantage to splitting off perf.  bpftool is being maintained in a different way
2024-11-20 17:24:31 <@jforbes:fedora.im> While the perf maintainers are big on maintaining it inside the kernel.
2024-11-20 17:24:59 <@jforbes:fedora.im> did you speak to acme about this at LPC?
2024-11-20 17:25:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> yes
2024-11-20 17:25:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> he seems keen on people using the standalone tarballs
2024-11-20 17:26:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> 
2024-11-20 17:26:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> b) stuck in experimental because we can't sign it yet (so perf is also stuck there)
2024-11-20 17:26:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> a) sometimes complicated to build
2024-11-20 17:26:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> the pain point for us - at least in Hyperscale - is that we often need the latest perf, but the whole kernel itself is 
2024-11-20 17:26:06 <@jforbes:fedora.im> Let me confer with acme about it, but as long as he is in favor, I am happy to do so.
2024-11-20 17:26:45 <@jforbes:fedora.im> Well hyperscale is all about the CS kernel right?
2024-11-20 17:26:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> it does not matter so much in Fedora, except that turning on extra features seems difficult (I have not tried since it moved back from kernel-tools to kernel, but I spent a day trying to turn on cxa-demangle and because of the funny way perf consumes build flags, that was super tricky)
2024-11-20 17:27:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> sounds good! and no rush
2024-11-20 17:27:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> not just though
2024-11-20 17:27:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> the biggest HS consumer, Meta, runs its own kernel internally
2024-11-20 17:27:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> but we get a lot of userspace tooling (including perf) from HS
2024-11-20 17:27:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Nope. We use the fedora-based kernel now.
2024-11-20 17:27:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh right, I forgot about that too
2024-11-20 17:27:55 <@jforbes:fedora.im> Cool
2024-11-20 17:28:18 <@jforbes:fedora.im> So yeah, will talk to acme, but I am okay with it.
2024-11-20 17:28:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> awesome! thanks. I'll probably have some patches I'll send him sometime this week too
2024-11-20 17:29:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> anyone else has a follow-up?
2024-11-20 17:29:17 <@jforbes:fedora.im> Honestly, will make it easier to coordinate.with the dynamic linking too
2024-11-20 17:29:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I just posted a review comment for bpftool: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2310159#c3
2024-11-20 17:29:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> fairly straightforward fixes and then it can be approved
2024-11-20 17:31:14 <@jforbes:fedora.im> I would almost rather it not be as a Fedora version change though.  Once it is split out, we should do so on all supported releases.
2024-11-20 17:31:28 <@jforbes:fedora.im> Otherwise I have to do some wonky patch stuff
2024-11-20 17:31:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> didn't we do a Change for kernel-tools even though it affected all releases?
2024-11-20 17:31:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I think it's fine backporting. I'm thinking of the Python 3.9 change proposal a few releases back
2024-11-20 17:32:02 <@jforbes:fedora.im> We did not
2024-11-20 17:32:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> the proposal basically says "we will push this to stable releases too"
2024-11-20 17:32:47 <@jforbes:fedora.im> Yeah, I am not against the actual change process, just as long as we can do it on all supported releases
2024-11-20 17:33:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we could just do a simple devel-announce thing
2024-11-20 17:33:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> 
2024-11-20 17:33:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> if we want to do it more quietly that's fine as well. but it might be good for comms to have it listed
2024-11-20 17:33:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> agreed, I think people expect the Fedora kernel changes to be backported so this counts as that too
2024-11-20 17:33:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> there's no actual impact to anyone for the split
2024-11-20 17:33:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> that works
2024-11-20 17:33:34 <@jforbes:fedora.im> correct, it only impacts the maintainers.
2024-11-20 17:34:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> shall we move on to the next topic?
2024-11-20 17:34:48 <@jforbes:fedora.im> go ahead
2024-11-20 17:34:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh... has anyone been working on openssh
2024-11-20 17:35:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> jforbes: let the kernel person know about bpftool internally plz :)
2024-11-20 17:35:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so that we can process that quickly
2024-11-20 17:36:14 <@rcolebaugh:matrix.org> Yes Vishal has been working on the new openssh build for c10
2024-11-20 17:37:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> hopefully it's almost ready
2024-11-20 17:37:40 <@rcolebaugh:matrix.org> He's merged from upstream and has been sorting out merge conflicts. Uploading the new lookaside sources worked out just fine btw! Right now he's verifying which patches were legit removed upstream. Hopefully we'll be set to start testing internally soon
2024-11-20 17:37:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> stream 10 and epel 10 are slated for official reveal on... Dec 3, I think is the latest estimate
2024-11-20 17:37:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2024-11-20 17:38:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it doesn't matter much for us other than hopefully we can have hyperscale 10 images ready by then
2024-11-20 17:38:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> then shaunm can put a screenshot of hyperscale 10 kde for the new website
2024-11-20 17:39:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> you don't need openssh for the hyperscale image though right Conan Kudo 
2024-11-20 17:40:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> that's more on the meta side - we ideally want to make a splash internally and announce something workable for people to test
2024-11-20 17:41:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2024-11-20 17:41:02 <@salimma:fedora.im> any other followups?
2024-11-20 17:41:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we don't ship openssh in the standard repos right?
2024-11-20 17:41:35 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's only in the -fb tags
2024-11-20 17:41:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> yup
2024-11-20 17:42:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> some of the changes might make sense for a public build, but those need to be sorted out
2024-11-20 17:42:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> and ideally the good parts all get upstreamed anyway and everyone gets it
2024-11-20 17:43:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> right
2024-11-20 17:45:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't think we have any other followups?
2024-11-20 17:45:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> what's next... announcement?
2024-11-20 17:46:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> if we have not mentioned it we should get the Connect CFP on the meeting records as a reminder
2024-11-20 17:46:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so we can move onto announcements
2024-11-20 17:46:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Announcements
2024-11-20 17:47:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !info CentOS Connect 2025 CFP is open until December 16, 2024
2024-11-20 17:47:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !link https://cfp.fedoraproject.org/centos-connect-2025/cfp
2024-11-20 17:47:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> !info deadline is Dec 16
2024-11-20 17:48:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> woops, I have not submitted anything
2024-11-20 17:48:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !info The CentOS Showcase talk Davide Cavalca and I did on Hyperscale is now published: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nHy8pf0AYE
2024-11-20 17:48:25 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nHy8pf0AYE
2024-11-20 17:49:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !info The CentOS Showcase talk Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6 did on using Hyperscale to develop improvements for Fedora is published.
2024-11-20 17:49:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCvawNYcfgA
2024-11-20 17:50:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Any other announcements?
2024-11-20 17:52:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> okay then...
2024-11-20 17:53:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Tickets
2024-11-20 17:53:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't think we have anything here, do we?
2024-11-20 17:53:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nope, nothing new... though we definitely need to do some spring cleaning
2024-11-20 17:53:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> speaking of tickets I am pretty sure the update notification tickets are dead
2024-11-20 17:54:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2024-11-20 17:55:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> if anyone wants to brave openshift :
2024-11-20 17:56:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh and remember the Hyperscale hangout is today
2024-11-20 17:56:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> is it 5 PM ET / 3 PM PT or did I get the time wrong again?
2024-11-20 17:56:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that's correct
2024-11-20 17:56:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> my personal calendar item for it says it's at that time
2024-11-20 17:57:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> alright, we should wrap this up and jump to the EPEL meeting in... 3 mins
2024-11-20 17:58:25 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yep
2024-11-20 17:58:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so...
2024-11-20 17:58:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Membership
2024-11-20 17:58:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Nothing for this, we have no new requests
2024-11-20 17:58:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so...
2024-11-20 17:58:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !topic Miscellaneous
2024-11-20 17:59:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Anything anyone wants to bring up in... one minute?
2024-11-20 17:59:20 <@rcolebaugh:matrix.org> nothing else on my end :)
2024-11-20 17:59:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> alrighty then
2024-11-20 17:59:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> 3...
2024-11-20 17:59:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> 2..
2024-11-20 17:59:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> 1.
2024-11-20 17:59:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !endmeeting