<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:03:07
!startmeeting Fedora Council - 2024-11-20
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
15:03:09
Meeting started at 2024-11-20 15:03:07 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
15:03:09
The Meeting name is 'Fedora Council - 2024-11-20'
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:03:11
!meetingname council
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
15:03:13
The Meeting Name is now council
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:03:22
!topic Welcome & `!hi`'s
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:03:24
!hi
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:03:25
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:03:26
Justin W. Flory (jflory7) - he / him / his
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:03:27
Matthew Miller (mattdm) - he / him / his
<@rwright:fedora.im>
15:03:28
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:03:33
Robert Wright (rwright) - he / him / his
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:03:34
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:03:37
Adam Samalik (asamalik) - he / him / his
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:03:47
also, human-level actual "hello" to everyone!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:03:50
!group members council
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:03:54
Members of council: Aoife Moloney, asamalik, Aleksandra Fedorova, bt0dotninja, David Cantrell, FAS Fernando F. Mancera, Jason Brooks, jflory7 (@jflory7:fedora.im, @fca:fedoraproject.org), Jona Azizaj, Matthew Miller, Robert Wright, smeragoel, Akashdeep Dhar
<@ffmancera:fedora.im>
15:03:56
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:03:58
FAS Fernando F. Mancera (ffmancera) - he / him / his
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:04:03
Yes, happy Wednesday :)
<@rwright:fedora.im>
15:04:08
if we don't say hello to the bots... it will haunt us someday
<@ffmancera:fedora.im>
15:05:10
- Captain, it's Wednesday
<@ffmancera:fedora.im>
15:05:10
- What a week, huh?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:05:11
!hi
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:05:13
Greeting our robotic overlords in order to cater favor for future use huh? Typical human.
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:05:15
Aoife Moloney (amoloney)
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:05:30
human-style hello to both bots and humans!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:06:11
!info Present: @jflory7 @mattdm @rwright @asamalik @ffmancera @amoloney
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:06:18
This is pretty good attendance :)
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:06:32
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:06:33
David Cantrell (dcantrell) - he / him / his
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:06:38
Aoife Moloney: Do you have an agenda of topics for today? I haven't reviewed the ticket tracker yet.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:06:45
!info +Present: @dcantrell
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:06:52
https://hackmd.io/p1w1ViAoQ1GlFJh5y0rLpg
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:06:57
nothing went on there
<@jonatoni:fedora.im>
15:07:18
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:07:20
Jona Azizaj (jonatoni) - she / her / hers
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:07:38
Id like to chat gitforge, but moreso just to start bringing our conversations here
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:07:56
!info +Present: @jbrooks @jonatoni
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:08:04
Looks like "gitforge" is the primary topic :)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:08:12
cool :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:08:12
Aoife Moloney++ Excellent. Let's do it.
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:08:14
jflory7 has already given cookies to amoloney during the F41 timeframe
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:08:37
!topic Follow-up: Git Forge evaluation
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:09:18
If I recall, we are saving announcements for the last 10 minutes of the meeting now!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:09:25
Maybe I should have mentioned that earlier.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:09:29
correct :)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:09:31
So weve been having a lot of conversations in our council-members channel and on council calls. They were conversations between us all that were not very interesting, but weve
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:10:03
So weve been having a lot of conversations in our council-members channel and on council calls. They were conversations between us all that were not very interesting, but weve reached a point where we can start having meaningful discussion on the forge we feel might be the one
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:10:31
Most council members are leaning towards forgejo
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:11:19
Speaking personally, I am _very_ leaning towards forgejo. :)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:11:31
Council would like to publicise this preference and how weve reached it, but before we do, is there anyone who would like to advocate for GitLab?
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:11:52
I am so very behind on all of the git forge data. I haven't seen any of the presentations or current information.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:11:56
Very Important: this is not the decision, this is us wanting to share our preference
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:12:10
where can I find any of the current information?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:12:39
lets get you up to speed dcantrell then :)
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:12:55
I haven'T really played with it much. The only issue I can see personally is, if we're gonna replace pagure and bugzilla, I would hope that forgejo(sp?) has a decent bugtracking module
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:13:25
Do we have a link to Akashdeep Dhar 's slides?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:13:32
There are lots of ways to play devil's advocate. But knowing we have been discussing this for nearly four years and we have been discussing it extensively in the past few weeks… no, I don't want to advocate for GitLab.
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:13:33
- Forgejo is a fully open source solution, without specific features behind a subscription
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:13:33
Considering both forges can do what we need, I'm leaning towards forgejo as well for for two reasons:
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:13:33
- I think it's an easier sell for people to learn GO vs. Ruby these days (or find people)
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:13:35
And I'm a tad worried about the migration experience...
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:14:04
Me too. This is why I am advocating for resources to help the community migrate over.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:14:29
I hope that we can find contributors to help teams with this migration instead of leaving it up to everyone to figure it out on their own. Of course, you can… but others might need the help
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:14:33
https://fedora-arc.readthedocs.io/en/latest/dist-git-comparison/index.html
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:14:39
dcantrell: ^^
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:14:57
this is a good starting point
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:15:00
ok, reading so I can have an actual opinion
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:15:09
There was a chart with different areas that need work, with initial size estimates....
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:15:19
jednorozec: had a great diagram showing user interactions with the dist-git service
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:15:41
Also, Stephen Gallagher shared his experience on a video call last week about running self-hosted GitLab internally for Red Hat and some of the huge difficulties he has had in maintaining the platform, even with the enterprise bits enabled.
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
15:16:13
Clarification: I maintain a gitlab.com instance, not self-hosted.
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:16:30
oh, sorry, I forgot who presented that. Yes, that's the one I mean
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:16:32
Oops, sorry.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:16:44
in our most recent discussion, it appeared to come down to this bottom line - Either option is technically doable, but forgejo is written in go and its the belief (or suggestion) that this is a more sustainable language stack choice than ruby, which is what gitlab is in
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
15:16:55
I'm pretty sure I'd have left to go work on adamw's yak farm if I had to actually maintain a self-hosted version...
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:17:35
There is more domain knowledge of Go in operating systems these days than Ruby TBH
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:17:47
Also, there is a blocker with GitLab CE -- _blocking issues_ are a premium feature.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:17:55
Even when I put on my old hat from working in huge HPC Linux environments running on RHEL/CentOS
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:18:03
Do we have a list of features that forgejo does not do, that pagure currently does? And what would get lost in the migration (if any)?
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:18:13
On the forgejo side, I think the biggest concern is that there aren't, currently, private issues.
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:18:21
what about the UIs? I personally find gitlab difficult to navigate. I've never used forgejo.
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
15:18:48
dcantrell: That's probably one of the strongest arguments for Forgejo. It's much more streamlined.
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:18:48
Private issues feature is what in what I would describe as "very early design" https://codeberg.org/forgejo/design/issues/2
<@timaeos:matrix.nexaeos.io>
15:19:22
Forgejo is github-esque from a UI perspective (I self-host an instance)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:19:41
This might be good feedback for the ARC team to capture in a FAQ about the git forges. We are going to start getting a lot of questions like these.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:19:49
And I don't think the Council is the right group to answer them all.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:19:50
I believe the user stories that were submitted capture the use cases for most/all of these and the ARC team who have been investigating havent found any that are not doable, after a fashion
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:19:53
We need to delegate this out a bit.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:20:20
Maybe a handful of sensitive repositories need to use other tools for now, like gitlab.com.
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:20:27
The takeaway I got from the ARC report was: infrastructure feels like either one could be made to work, but as mentioned there's a lean towards forgejo since RH has a lot of Go expertise
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:20:30
there will be engineering effort though, without a shadow of a doubt, needed to bring us to feature parity....and beyond!!
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:20:58
But yeah. First step would be to announce what we chose. Then maybe make a general timeline of what's to come so people don't go grab their bloody pitchforks XD
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:21:03
Did anyone consider migrating to a vanilla Bugzilla deployment instead of using forgejo issues?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:21:08
I will be frank that I have hardly looked at the Forgejo UI, but the GitLab one increasingly frustrates me in how difficult it makes collaborative features hard to find. No thank you GitLab, I don't want my public issue tracker to be an AI model registry please.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:21:25
Upstream bugzilla is an actively developed project that even takes sponsored development for self-hosted deployments
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:21:45
Im not sure. QA are looking into forgejo as we speak
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:21:47
And it wouldn't be a "burn the world" situation if we did that
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:22:04
Im not sure. QA are looking into forgejo as we speak, so its worth a mention
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:22:05
Aoife Moloney: We probably need to lift a feature comparison between Pagure and Forgejo, because if we are finally pulling the trigger on this, there will be many questions that keep coming to us like this.
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:22:09
Honestly, if forgejo can do issues, I'm of the mind that we should use Forgejo.... having both modules integrated instead of having them separate imo would be a definite improvement
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:22:16
We could if it comes down to it. I personally would really like PRs and issues to live next to each other.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:22:37
True of any option, TBH. Few open source tools are built with distro communities in mind.
<@rwright:fedora.im>
15:22:53
+1, its reduces the mental load on this and systems for people to keep track of.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:22:55
I would prefer to have the issue tracker separate so we have good issue tracker features, stable URLs, and being able to bridge the gap across multiple stakeholders
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:22:58
I 100% agree on this. Hate that I have to keep logging on again and again
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:23:03
I will take that action to request something digestable for folks to read from the ARC team when they are closing out the investigation
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:23:13
But we could perhaps use bugzilla for all of the _non-packaging_ things. (I'd prefer to have just one tool as ideal, though.)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:23:21
The Bugzilla UI is why I am terrible at reporting bugs in Fedora, and instead file all my bug reports in GNOME GitLab upstream 🥹
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:23:26
forge trackers aren't designed for things like issue reports, cross-stakeholder things, etc.
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
15:23:33
Conan Kudo: The "stable URLs" thing you brought up at FESCo yesterday and I don't think it was ever added to the list of use-cases for the Forge team to explore.
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:23:39
ok, so what I'm reading now as well as some of the comments here, I feel like Forgejo is the least bad option of a bunch of bad options. But we're not going to find a unicorn. It is nice that we can more easily extend Forgejo. it has my vote
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
15:23:42
Could you explain what that means for the general public?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:23:49
and yet people struggle to figure out how to report bugs to GNOME GitLab too, it's not that straightforward
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:23:54
Yes please 🙏 No more fragmented platforms please, keep things together in one place please 🙏
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:24:15
We could set up a _much_ simpler bugzilla than the RH one.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:24:29
we actually don't know this yet either
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:24:42
Yes please. Sounds great. Should we document this as an action from this meeting?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:24:44
forgejo's design comes from gogs, which wasn't intended to be extended
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:24:46
like what we did with chat? 😀
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:24:48
you reached the conclusion in record time dcantrell 😅 took most of us weeks to get here 🤣
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:24:56
I know it took me a while to understand the relation between pagure.io vs src.fp.o vs koji vs bodhi vs [...]
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:24:56
_(Why not build., release., projects., ...)_
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:25:07
For the record, I get alot of this stuff is old legacy stuff
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:25:09
one of the reasons we didn't use it a decade ago was because extending the software was infeasible
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:25:11
_But_, I don't want to make a bug tracker decision now. It's just useful to keep in mind that we _do_ have options for that if whichever forge we choose isn't the right thing.
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:25:48
I do have concerns for contributors who work on Fedora, CentOS Stream, and RHEL.....we will come to live in a world where we have 3 completely different forges and different tools
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:25:55
if we wanted to talk about one solution for everything, then I'd say lets replace everything with an Open Build Service instance :P
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:26:09
Yes, dangit, yes! Argh....!
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:26:33
Alot of you guys are massive geeks, not everybody is! XD
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:26:45
GitLab CE and gitlab.com (with all the enterprise features) are already different enough, no?
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:26:52
(I meant that in the most loving way possible btw)
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:26:57
So it might be actually better if it straight away feels like a different tool
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:26:58
while I don't want any one OS to dictate the tooling that other projects use, there is definitely some brain drain that comes from having to memorize the tools and commands to work across all environments
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:26:58
Exactly like this. We have had years of painful fragmentation and I believe in a future where we are less fragmented internally, and instead, we federate better with our upstreams.
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:27:19
I think we'll want to have a similar _basic workflow_ and the forge will mostly be an implementation detail
<@bookwar:fedora.im>
15:27:32
All of these forges do essentially the same. It is not like we are going for Gerrit (which I still believe is superior for our use case, but impossible to sell)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:27:54
there is no way I will willingly inflict Gerrit or ReviewBoard on our contributors
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:28:03
if Phabricator was still around, maybe
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:28:13
Yes, GitLab CE and GitLab Enterprise have very different feature sets, and feedback we received was that RHEL and CentOS developers who use GitLab would likely use GitLab CE and realize a lot of things they expect are missing.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:28:16
Phab was at least phun to use
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
15:28:41
Gerrit is a war-crime.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:28:45
Folks, it has been a known fact that were going to move to either Forgejo or GitLab self-hosted. We are now sharing that Forgejo is the front-runner for the council. LEts talk about - is this ok with everyone? Not - lets try something entirely different
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:28:47
Okay, time check....
<@bookwar:fedora.im>
15:28:51
I mention it for illustration purposes. This is what _different_ forge would look like. Gitlab, github, forgejo are not different
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:29:07
# 31 minutes remaining
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:29:08
:)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:29:21
Sure. I"m just saying, for that kind of workflow, I like how Phab does it.
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
15:29:22
I cannot stress enough that this is exactly what would happen.
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:29:25
Aoife Moloney: you had a proposal for next steps?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:29:28
I see a lot of 💯's here 😎
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:29:32
Sure. I'm just saying, for that kind of workflow, I like how Phab does it.
<@dcantrell:fedora.im>
15:29:40
and then we evacuate the oxygen from this meeting room
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:30:25
Yeah I agree I would suggest the bugtracker portion should be put aside from now and delegated to another discussion. I would note that in your post to the community though just to make sure it'S 1000% clear
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:30:26
I do. I would like the council to announce our preference at this time, giving context on how we reached this preference and why we think this is the better choice and allow 2 weeks for feedback
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:30:33
as alot of people mesh all those solutions together
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:30:37
after this period, I want to take it to a formal ticket vote
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:30:52
Ohhhh, I feel like two weeks is _so long_.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:30:57
Has anyone talked to the CentOS people about git.centos.org yet?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:31:05
I am +1 to any process Aoife proposes TBH 😝
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:31:05
But if we make that two weeks include US thanksgiving week, I'll concede :)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:31:12
If theres no detrimental feedback to this preference, and if theres no blocking votes, we announce the decision formally
<@rwright:fedora.im>
15:31:14
+1, let's make a preference
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:31:16
Not really when you consider we are in the Grand Season of Holidays.
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:31:27
In reality, I don't see the actual move happening before ~6 months..... once the discussion is over, there's still _so much_ to plan
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:31:37
it'll take at least a year, if not longer
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:31:47
lots of backoffice stuff will have to be completely rewritten from scratch
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:31:49
Yeah I can imagine that being true
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:31:59
But the important part is, we are going there. All together. 😉
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:32:05
well, no
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:32:06
I finally feel like we are turning a new corner here.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:32:09
the decision is NOT the implementation
<@bookwar:fedora.im>
15:32:30
They are not really blocking anything except opening that champagne bottle.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:32:32
Whether we like it or not, a future is coming :P
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:32:33
The decision is us settling on a solution and evoking our intent to work through it in a specific(ish) timeframe
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:32:37
when the end spot is decided, go nuts architecting the solution all genius ppl
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:32:39
yeah that's part of why I'm itching to make a call so that can start
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:32:40
no, we didn't. this isn't about actually doing anything
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:32:57
the doing stuff is a future thing
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:33:01
+1
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:33:25
Maybe we are not understanding each other well over text. Let's move on :)
<@rwright:fedora.im>
15:33:39
Aoife Moloney: can we make the call to a preference then and move it to the public for the 2 weeks and then to a final vote then?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:33:45
so council members, we cannot start the 2 week feedback period without the announcement of our preference
<@bookwar:fedora.im>
15:33:47
Do not underestimate the significance of "analysis-paralysis" resolution.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:33:56
Aoife Moloney: Do you want us to take votes on this proposed timeline/roadmap?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:34:05
I am not. But this isn't an action decision yet.
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:34:07
a week here a week there doesn't matter I guess... agree with Aoife Moloney let's do a proper ticket vote
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:34:28
3. Ticket vote, closing by the end of the first week of December.
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:34:28
2. Open discussion for two weeks.
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:34:28
1. Post something about the general council preference. ( Akashdeep Dhar already has a draft post)
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:34:28
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:34:28
But, anyway, basic plan then:
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:34:41
+1
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:34:42
^^ thank you mattdm
<@rwright:fedora.im>
15:34:47
+1
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:34:47
I would like the clock to start after Thanksgiving
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:34:58
people aren't going to read much next week
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:35:06
I tend to agree actually
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:35:07
heck, I'm going on vacation tomorrow
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:35:28
Start the clock on Dec 2nd
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:35:32
We cant start the 'clock' until the announcement of preference goes out. Its in draft now and all council members need to review and + it
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:35:40
(I know people don't believe me when I say I'm going on vacation, but I *mean it* this time!)
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:35:48
We've been discussing this for years, and this _specific_ choice since February.
<@bookwar:fedora.im>
15:35:54
+1 (Don't honestly care about Thanksgiving because it influences ability of people to participate in discussion in both directions)
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:35:55
uh-huh
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:36:05
So, let's agree 2 weeks onward of first draft
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:36:08
I will give council members 1 week to review, make edits and ack the draft announcement
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:36:10
Clock starts when the post goes out
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:36:15
I think we can agree to this plan of action
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:36:19
+1
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:36:27
Well, not first draft, but final draft.
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:36:28
+1
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:36:29
that means folks going on PTO - prioritise this this week!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:36:29
You get what I mean.
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:36:49
And just for clarity: are any council members here -1 to Forgejo as the preferred option?
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:36:59
Anyone 0 on it, for that matter?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:37:16
The post can go live on 28th Nov, and will remain 'open' until 12th Dec
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
15:37:31
works for me
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:37:41
🦗 🦗 🦗
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:37:46
then one week for formal council voting from that date, once no seriously bad feedback comes our way from community members looking into forgejo more closely
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:38:18
that means we should be done with this by no later than December 19th, one way or another
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:40:54
My Matrix client is failing to send messages 😐
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:40:54
Test
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:41:02
bumping this
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:41:19
hello? matrix?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:41:21
side note, mine was too but its back in action
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:41:22
okay it's back :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:41:28
Because December is a dense travel month for me, I won't be the best for detailed review or feedback. But I am +1 to this general course of action and I trust in the process and folks taking on this work to do it in the interest of the community :)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:41:38
even matrix is sick of this git forge stuff 😅
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:41:47
lolol
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:42:16
A blip in the matrix…
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:42:19
So, no -1s. Let's do this!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:42:31
🎆
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:42:40
🎉
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:43:02
after a long road, its great to be able to set a direction
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:43:59
actions are on me to reach out to arc to ask for digestable write up, and on all council members to review, edit and + the preference announcement
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:44:15
I can publish it then next week, or Akash can
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:44:29
or anyone not in 'merica :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:44:38
I would really like that write-up to include a basic diff of feature sets between Pagure and Forgejo. People will want that, I think…
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:44:51
And if not now, then definitely soon
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:45:05
yes but that can come after if needed and not already touched on in the draft
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:45:37
Sure, that works. But I will bet that we will start getting this question a lot in our community channels once the post publishes :P
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:45:48
ARC will need to round out the investigation so we can ask for a comprehensive list as part of that close out. The report e originally asked for is obsolete at this point anyway
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:45:52
I am anticipating future work for me :)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:47:06
~3 mins left before we move to announements
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:47:08
anything else?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:47:59
Not from me.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:48:48
ok I think were done with the git forge convo, lets move to announcements
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:48:52
I have one anyway
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:48:57
thank you all!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:48:58
!topic Announcements, announcements!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:49:27
In hindsight, might have wanted to put an `!agreed` for the benefit of the meeting logs
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:50:57
!agreed The Fedora Council will publish a new Community Blog article about our git forge decision on 28 November. There will be a two-week comments period until 12 December. There will be one week for the Fedora Council to take a go/no-go vote (until 19 December).
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:51:05
I hope I captured that right.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:51:08
Let me know if not.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:51:17
I have two announcements I want to make, but I can follow you Aoife.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:51:46
Well, three.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:51:49
one nitpick - that sounds like were releasing the decision, and not our preference. Its splitting haors
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:52:02
one nitpick - that sounds like were releasing the decision, and not our preference. Its splitting hairs, but its important to give ourselves room
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:52:04
OK. Could you revise my text?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:52:11
!agreed STRIKE previous !agreed
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:52:25
ah! decision -> preference
<@mattdm:fedora.im>
15:52:34
Yes. :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:52:36
Aoife Moloney: I will let you type this one and I will put one of my announcements in
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:53:05
I decide to ignore the strike!
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:53:37
is there going to be an anti-strike strike?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:53:39
!info Shout-out to amoloney++ moralcode++ t0xic0der++ sumantrom++ for heavy-lifting on event execution for last week's virtual events. The event would not have been possible without their support and persistence.
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:54:08
Yes. Will you strike the anti-strike strike? We heard you like strikes so we added more strikes to your strike.
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:54:40
amoloney++
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:54:42
farchord has already given cookies to amoloney during the F41 timeframe
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
15:54:47
I decide to ignore the anti-strike strike strike question!
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:54:50
!agreed The Fedora Council will publish a new Community Blog article about our git forge decision on 28 November, sharing our preference to lead with Forgejo as our end choice. There will be a two-week comments period until 12 December for feedback, and after which, pending no detrimental discoveries that would cause us to revise this choice, we will hold a formal ticket vote on Forgejo. The vote will be open for one week, and if there is full consensus, the council will release our decision on Fedoras git forge by December 19th.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:55:09
Aoife Moloney: +1
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
15:55:20
rwright gave a cookie to amoloney. They now have 67 cookies, 13 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:55:31
its basially what you said, just a bit more
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:55:40
too many words, but anywhoo
<@farchord:fedora.im>
15:56:00
Man youtubers are gonna have a field day with this one... mattdm wanna get on Brodie's channel? XD
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:57:07
My second announcement, which I am not going to put in the meeting summary, is a follow-up for the email I sent recently to council-private@ list. I wanted to put it out there that I am struggling with burnout and I have a lot of personal challenges going on behind the scenes in my life. That said, I take full accountability for how the virtual events went last week, and going forward, I want to turn a new page with fewer last-minute, frantic changes.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:57:07
Which segues to my third announcement…
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:57:07
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:58:46
!info In 2025, I will step back from organizing and running virtual events so that I can better invest my time and effort into critical events like Flock and other events we participate and attend throughout the year. I also hope this will translate into more focus on smaller, regional/local events that do not require so much expensive travel. I am also resigning from all Council Community Initiatives where I currently participate, effective immediately. I am also planning to propose the sunset of the Community Blog to Fedora Discussion, and end my role as editor-in-chief of the Community Blog.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
15:58:59
This is a lot, so… I wanted to start talking about this more publicly sooner than later.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
15:59:40
Before we time out, just a reminder that Elections are open!!!
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:00:00
We have 5 open seats for FESCo and 1 open seat for Mindshare
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:00:03
FWIW, the next meeting here is the Community Blog editor roundtable.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:00:08
And I am not sure if it is just me or not yet :P
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:00:11
So we have some flex time
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:00:30
Any other announcements, folks?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:00:31
that helps 😅
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:00:35
# Final call, going once…
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:00:50
# Final call, going twice…
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:00:58
Nominations close 26th November for both elections
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:01:31
!info Elections are now open with 5 open seats for FESCo and 1 open seat for Mindshare (no Council election this cycle). Nominations close 26 November for both elections.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:01:37
Please add yourself or someone (wth their permission) to the wiki pages of the groups you would like to take part in
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:01:53
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee/Nominations
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:01:56
Aoife Moloney++ Thanks for plugging this one in, it is really important actually!
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:01:57
jflory7 has already given cookies to amoloney during the F41 timeframe
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:02:26
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mindshare/Nominations
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:02:38
welcome :) thats all I had
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:02:58
Super.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:03:02
And that is time, folks.
<@asamalik:fedora.im>
16:03:05
thanks everyone!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:03:08
Thanks for being here for another Council meeting!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:03:13
Have a great rest of your week 👋
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
16:03:14
!endmeeting