#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:01:29

!startmeeting ELN

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:01:31

Meeting started at 2024-11-22 17:01:29 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:01:31

The Meeting name is 'ELN'

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:01:40

!meetingname ELN

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:01:40

The Meeting Name is now ELN

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:01:52

!topic Init process

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:01:56

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:01:58

Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his

<@davide:cavalca.name>

17:03:39

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:03:41

Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:05:46

hi Davide Cavalca Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:06:46

not sure what we can get through without quorum but I guess we'll get started

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:06:55

!topic Agenda

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:07:28

!info ELN Chairmanship

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:07:36

!info ELN status

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:07:59

!info Change meeting schedule?

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:08:20

anything else to discuss today?

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:09:13

ok in that case...

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:09:21

!topic ELN Chairmanship

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:10:39

as Stephen announced last week, he'll be moving onto a new role in January, and I'll be taking over leadership of ELN.

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:10:56

any questions or concerns?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:11:41

ah... I missed that announcement

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:11:53

Congrats Yaakov!

<@davide:cavalca.name>

17:12:03

oh I totally missed that too

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:12:09

it was in the meeting minutes for last week (we didn't have much of a crowd then either)

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:12:58

thank you both, I look forward to working with you (and others!) further wrt ELN

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:13:23

we still plan on reworking ELN Extras at some point right?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:13:33

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:13:35

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@davide:cavalca.name>

17:13:37

no concerns from my end, congrats Yaakov, looking forward to continue working together as well

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:13:47

I don't have much cycles for it right now, and the ship has sailed for EPEL 10 anyway, but we have 2 years to get it right for EPEL 11

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:14:09

I have no issues with this, we already work together in other capacities to know you'll be great. :)

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:14:22

I'd say we're going to look into what we can do to make ELN Extras a launching point for EPEL 11, in what form that will take I'm not prejudicing the outcome

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:14:49

thanks Conan Kudo and welcome

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:15:20

this means no more skipping Flock then :P

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:15:25

!info as announced last week, Yaakov (yselkowitz) will be taking over as ELN lead from Stephen

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:15:42

that will depend on where and when it will be, travel is not easy for me

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:15:46

though yeah I didn't see an announcement about this last week

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:16:24

for me, mea culpa, I missed last week's meeting and did not have time to catch up with the logs

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:17:06

Flock 2025 is in Brno just before DevConf I think

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:17:10

the meeting schedule is something I want to discuss further on, so let's move on

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:17:18

!topic ELN status

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:17:18

I would totally support Flock in Canada (you're in Toronto right?)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:17:33

but apparently international politics kept getting in the way of Flock Canada :(

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:17:45

!info xorg-x11-server has been completely removed from ELN (including the buildroot)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:17:53

woot! 🎉

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:18:10

!info ELN has been switched to dnf5 as the default package manager (now provides the "dnf" command etc.)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:18:26

ehh

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:18:59

the transition to dnf isn't quite done yet

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:19:02

err dnf5

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:19:11

so this is only the CLI parts

<@davide:cavalca.name>

17:19:20

FYI dnf5 breaks Chef pretty badly (and probably other config management systems too)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:19:35

yeah... sadly Chef upstream is very unresponsive on issues these days

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:19:39

it also seems to have some issues with package selection logic

<@davide:cavalca.name>

17:19:44

I have some folks on my end that will be working on that next half

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:19:46

which I am trying to figure out

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:20:03

our desktop team (that needs to qualify F41) basically right now patch over the package provider to shell out to dnf5 as a quick fix

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:20:19

correct, there are still consumers of the dnf-4 APIs, see https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/206

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:20:44

I'm hoping I can do work on porting things

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:21:31

that would be very helpful, porting things to new APIs is a bit beyond my team's purview (except that we're responsible for Content Resolver)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:21:46

I need to get familiar with the new API

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:21:53

it's still not well documented, which makes it a challenge

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:22:32

good news is we've got lots of time before RHEL 11 branches to sort all this out

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:23:00

and I do intend to reach out to the maintainers of those still using dnf-4 APIs to bring this to their attention as well

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:24:02

any other questions or concerns here?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:24:56

note that PackageKit's fedora/rhel maintainer is not involved upstream anymore

<@davide:cavalca.name>

17:25:03

I have a few plugins on my end that we still need to port, but we'll get them sorted out

<@davide:cavalca.name>

17:25:18

CoW and perfmetrics for sure, possibly more that I've forgotten about

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:25:22

so you should file an upstream ticket because the fedora maintainer is mostly unresponsive about PK

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:25:38

for me - at work it's that Chef thing we mentioned earlier, personally etckeeper needs to be ported, I have not checked how much work that is

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:25:56

the txnupd plugin needs porting too

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:26:24

I hope that's going to be easy 😅

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:26:25

is there a tracking bug for this on the Fedora bugzilla somewhere?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:26:34

so we can see issues in one place

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:26:56

the python3-dnf will remain as long as things still depend on it and can coexist (as least somewhat) with dnf5

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:27:18

for ELN I'm currently using https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/206

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:27:22

the main issue is that plugins need to exist for both systems regardless

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:27:26

iirc read only is mostly fine but if you use dnf4 and dnf5 both to install packages, hilarity ensues

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:27:44

oh, I mean a bugzilla tracker for Fedora packages that are known to be broken right now

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:28:16

good question, I'd have to look

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:29:45

someone filed this for etckeeper but there is no tracking bug listed yet https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2326283

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:30:01

etckeeper is for EPEL?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:30:11

yes

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:31:03

eh? no

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:31:08

if you could add any EPEL/ELN Extras packages that are affected to #206 that would help

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:31:19

oh, for ELN Extras, yes, it's not in core

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:31:35

right now it's broken in F41 but it will be broken in EPEL 11 too

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:31:48

(it's not in EPEL 10 yet)

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:32:42

!info additional packages in EPEL (ELN Extras) are affected by the dnf->dnf5 transition, please help track them

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:32:48

!link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/206

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:33:26

feedback is appreciated. bottom of the hour already, let's move on

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:33:38

!topic ELN mass rebuild

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:34:19

!info mass rebuild will be queued up shortly after this meeting to run through the weekend

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:35:14

the goal here is for early detection of things would otherwise break during (but not be detected until) the F42 mass rebuild in January

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:35:50

or in short, things have been too quiet recently, to time to stir the pot 😅

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:35:58

nice. ELN helping Fedora :)

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:36:36

and ourselves, since there will certainly be enough other breakage due to the new gcc

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:38:07

!topic meeting schedule

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:40:01

right now, the next meeting is scheduled for 06 December, which is good since next week is US Thanksgiving

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:40:45

the next one after that though is somehow *three* weeks later on 27 December, which 1) doesn't make sense and 2) I presume most of you won't be around

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:41:00

is the 20th any better?

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:42:24

anybody?

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:43:24

!info next meeting on Friday 06 December at the usual time

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:44:23

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:45:07

thinking

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:45:29

yeah the 20th is better for me. I'll probably miss the next one as I might be on the plane at that time, checking my schedule

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:46:47

I can plan to arrive at the airport early and take it from the lounge I guess :)

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:47:18

then I'll move that the following meeting be moved up to Friday 20th December

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:47:41

votes please?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:47:59

we can also choose to cancel the next next meeting and postpone it to January, but I guess we can decide that at the next meeting if we don't think much will be done in a week

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:48:03

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:48:07

but yea, tentatively +1 for Dec 20

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:48:24

Davide Cavalca?

<@davide:cavalca.name>

17:48:46

yeah that should be fine

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:49:13

!agreed the following meeting after the 06th will be Friday 20th December

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:50:17

!action: for next meeting, let's discuss the meeting schedule in general and see if changes need to be maded

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:50:35

!action for next meeting, let's discuss the meeting schedule in general and see if changes need to be made

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:50:53

!topic Open Floor

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:50:59

anyone have anything?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:51:39

looping back to my previous question re: DNF5 tracking bug. I just filed one

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:51:42

!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=DNF5

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:52:31

Conan Kudo: can you make any existing or new bugs filed for PackageKit block this tracker?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:52:47

sure I guess

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:53:17

we can reference it from Yaakov's GitHub issue too so we can be sure we don't miss anything

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:53:25

(oh, I'll link the gh issue there too)

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:53:55

thanks Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6 for starting that

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:54:27

anything else for open floor?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:55:32

I guess not

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:55:51

in that case, thank you all for coming and participating, I look forward to continue to work with you on ELN

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:55:54

Happy Thanksgiving to fellow US folks, if I don't talk to you between now and next Thursday (haha who am I kidding)

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:56:03

salimma gave a cookie to yselkowitz. They now have 10 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle

<@salimma:fedora.im>

17:56:05

thanks Yaakov

<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>

17:56:11

!endmeeting