2024-11-22 17:01:29 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !startmeeting ELN
2024-11-22 17:01:31 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-11-22 17:01:29 UTC
2024-11-22 17:01:31 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'ELN'
2024-11-22 17:01:40 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !meetingname ELN
2024-11-22 17:01:40 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now ELN
2024-11-22 17:01:52 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Init process
2024-11-22 17:01:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-22 17:01:58 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-11-22 17:03:39 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2024-11-22 17:03:41 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2024-11-22 17:05:46 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> hi Davide Cavalca Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6
2024-11-22 17:06:46 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> not sure what we can get through without quorum but I guess we'll get started
2024-11-22 17:06:55 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Agenda
2024-11-22 17:07:28 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info ELN Chairmanship
2024-11-22 17:07:36 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info ELN status
2024-11-22 17:07:59 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info Change meeting schedule?
2024-11-22 17:08:20 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anything else to discuss today?
2024-11-22 17:09:13 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ok in that case...
2024-11-22 17:09:21 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic ELN Chairmanship
2024-11-22 17:10:39 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> as Stephen announced last week, he'll be moving onto a new role in January, and I'll be taking over leadership of ELN.
2024-11-22 17:10:56 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> any questions or concerns?
2024-11-22 17:11:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah... I missed that announcement
2024-11-22 17:11:53 <@salimma:fedora.im> Congrats Yaakov!
2024-11-22 17:12:03 <@davide:cavalca.name> oh I totally missed that too
2024-11-22 17:12:09 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> it was in the meeting minutes for last week (we didn't have much of a crowd then either)
2024-11-22 17:12:58 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> thank you both, I look forward to working with you (and others!) further wrt ELN
2024-11-22 17:13:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> we still plan on reworking ELN Extras at some point right?
2024-11-22 17:13:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-11-22 17:13:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-11-22 17:13:37 <@davide:cavalca.name> no concerns from my end, congrats Yaakov, looking forward to continue working together as well
2024-11-22 17:13:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> I don't have much cycles for it right now, and the ship has sailed for EPEL 10 anyway, but we have 2 years to get it right for EPEL 11
2024-11-22 17:14:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I have no issues with this, we already work together in other capacities to know you'll be great. :)
2024-11-22 17:14:22 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> I'd say we're going to look into what we can do to make ELN Extras a launching point for EPEL 11, in what form that will take I'm not prejudicing the outcome
2024-11-22 17:14:49 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> thanks Conan Kudo and welcome
2024-11-22 17:15:20 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this means no more skipping Flock then :P
2024-11-22 17:15:25 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info as announced last week, Yaakov (yselkowitz) will be taking over as ELN lead from Stephen
2024-11-22 17:15:42 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> that will depend on where and when it will be, travel is not easy for me
2024-11-22 17:15:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> though yeah I didn't see an announcement about this last week
2024-11-22 17:16:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> for me, mea culpa, I missed last week's meeting and did not have time to catch up with the logs
2024-11-22 17:17:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> Flock 2025 is in Brno just before DevConf I think
2024-11-22 17:17:10 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> the meeting schedule is something I want to discuss further on, so let's move on
2024-11-22 17:17:18 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic ELN status
2024-11-22 17:17:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> I would totally support Flock in Canada (you're in Toronto right?)
2024-11-22 17:17:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> but apparently international politics kept getting in the way of Flock Canada :(
2024-11-22 17:17:45 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info xorg-x11-server has been completely removed from ELN (including the buildroot)
2024-11-22 17:17:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> woot! 🎉
2024-11-22 17:18:10 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info ELN has been switched to dnf5 as the default package manager (now provides the "dnf" command etc.)
2024-11-22 17:18:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> ehh
2024-11-22 17:18:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the transition to dnf isn't quite done yet
2024-11-22 17:19:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> err dnf5
2024-11-22 17:19:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so this is only the CLI parts
2024-11-22 17:19:20 <@davide:cavalca.name> FYI dnf5 breaks Chef pretty badly (and probably other config management systems too)
2024-11-22 17:19:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah... sadly Chef upstream is very unresponsive on issues these days
2024-11-22 17:19:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it also seems to have some issues with package selection logic
2024-11-22 17:19:44 <@davide:cavalca.name> I have some folks on my end that will be working on that next half
2024-11-22 17:19:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> which I am trying to figure out
2024-11-22 17:20:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> our desktop team (that needs to qualify F41) basically right now patch over the package provider to shell out to dnf5 as a quick fix
2024-11-22 17:20:19 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> correct, there are still consumers of the dnf-4 APIs, see https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/206
2024-11-22 17:20:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm hoping I can do work on porting things
2024-11-22 17:21:31 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> that would be very helpful, porting things to new APIs is a bit beyond my team's purview (except that we're responsible for Content Resolver)
2024-11-22 17:21:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I need to get familiar with the new API
2024-11-22 17:21:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's still not well documented, which makes it a challenge
2024-11-22 17:22:32 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> good news is we've got lots of time before RHEL 11 branches to sort all this out
2024-11-22 17:23:00 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> and I do intend to reach out to the maintainers of those still using dnf-4 APIs to bring this to their attention as well
2024-11-22 17:24:02 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> any other questions or concerns here?
2024-11-22 17:24:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> note that PackageKit's fedora/rhel maintainer is not involved upstream anymore
2024-11-22 17:25:03 <@davide:cavalca.name> I have a few plugins on my end that we still need to port, but we'll get them sorted out
2024-11-22 17:25:18 <@davide:cavalca.name> CoW and perfmetrics for sure, possibly more that I've forgotten about
2024-11-22 17:25:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so you should file an upstream ticket because the fedora maintainer is mostly unresponsive about PK
2024-11-22 17:25:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> for me - at work it's that Chef thing we mentioned earlier, personally etckeeper needs to be ported, I have not checked how much work that is
2024-11-22 17:25:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the txnupd plugin needs porting too
2024-11-22 17:26:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I hope that's going to be easy 😅
2024-11-22 17:26:25 <@salimma:fedora.im> is there a tracking bug for this on the Fedora bugzilla somewhere?
2024-11-22 17:26:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> so we can see issues in one place
2024-11-22 17:26:56 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> the python3-dnf will remain as long as things still depend on it and can coexist (as least somewhat) with dnf5
2024-11-22 17:27:18 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> for ELN I'm currently using https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/206
2024-11-22 17:27:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the main issue is that plugins need to exist for both systems regardless
2024-11-22 17:27:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> iirc read only is mostly fine but if you use dnf4 and dnf5 both to install packages, hilarity ensues
2024-11-22 17:27:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, I mean a bugzilla tracker for Fedora packages that are known to be broken right now
2024-11-22 17:28:16 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> good question, I'd have to look
2024-11-22 17:29:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> someone filed this for etckeeper but there is no tracking bug listed yet https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2326283
2024-11-22 17:30:01 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> etckeeper is for EPEL?
2024-11-22 17:30:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2024-11-22 17:31:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> eh? no
2024-11-22 17:31:08 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> if you could add any EPEL/ELN Extras packages that are affected to #206 that would help
2024-11-22 17:31:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, for ELN Extras, yes, it's not in core
2024-11-22 17:31:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> right now it's broken in F41 but it will be broken in EPEL 11 too
2024-11-22 17:31:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> (it's not in EPEL 10 yet)
2024-11-22 17:32:42 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info additional packages in EPEL (ELN Extras) are affected by the dnf->dnf5 transition, please help track them
2024-11-22 17:32:48 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/206
2024-11-22 17:33:26 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> feedback is appreciated.  bottom of the hour already, let's move on
2024-11-22 17:33:38 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic ELN mass rebuild
2024-11-22 17:34:19 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info mass rebuild will be queued up shortly after this meeting to run through the weekend
2024-11-22 17:35:14 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> the goal here is for early detection of things would otherwise break during (but not be detected until) the F42 mass rebuild in January
2024-11-22 17:35:50 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> or in short, things have been too quiet recently, to time to stir the pot 😅
2024-11-22 17:35:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> nice. ELN helping Fedora :)
2024-11-22 17:36:36 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> and ourselves, since there will certainly be enough other breakage due to the new gcc
2024-11-22 17:38:07 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic meeting schedule
2024-11-22 17:40:01 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> right now, the next meeting is scheduled for 06 December, which is good since next week is US Thanksgiving
2024-11-22 17:40:45 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> the next one after that though is somehow *three* weeks later on 27 December, which 1) doesn't make sense and 2) I presume most of you won't be around
2024-11-22 17:41:00 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> is the 20th any better?
2024-11-22 17:42:24 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anybody?
2024-11-22 17:43:24 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info next meeting on Friday 06 December at the usual time
2024-11-22 17:44:23 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ??
2024-11-22 17:45:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> thinking
2024-11-22 17:45:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah the 20th is better for me. I'll probably miss the next one as I might be on the plane at that time, checking my schedule
2024-11-22 17:46:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> I can plan to arrive at the airport early and take it from the lounge I guess :)
2024-11-22 17:47:18 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> then I'll move that the following meeting be moved up to Friday 20th December
2024-11-22 17:47:41 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> votes please?
2024-11-22 17:47:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> we can also choose to cancel the next next meeting and postpone it to January, but I guess we can decide that at the next meeting if we don't think much will be done in a week
2024-11-22 17:48:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-11-22 17:48:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> but yea, tentatively +1 for Dec 20
2024-11-22 17:48:24 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca?
2024-11-22 17:48:46 <@davide:cavalca.name> yeah that should be fine
2024-11-22 17:49:13 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !agreed the following meeting after the 06th will be Friday 20th December
2024-11-22 17:50:17 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !action: for next meeting, let's discuss the meeting schedule in general and see if changes need to be maded
2024-11-22 17:50:35 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !action for next meeting, let's discuss the meeting schedule in general and see if changes need to be made
2024-11-22 17:50:53 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor
2024-11-22 17:50:59 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anyone have anything?
2024-11-22 17:51:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> looping back to my previous question re: DNF5 tracking bug. I just filed one
2024-11-22 17:51:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=DNF5
2024-11-22 17:52:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: can you make any existing or new bugs filed for PackageKit block this tracker?
2024-11-22 17:52:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> sure I guess
2024-11-22 17:53:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> we can reference it from Yaakov's GitHub issue too so we can be sure we don't miss anything
2024-11-22 17:53:25 <@salimma:fedora.im> (oh, I'll link the gh issue there too)
2024-11-22 17:53:55 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> thanks Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6 for starting that
2024-11-22 17:54:27 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anything else for open floor?
2024-11-22 17:55:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> I guess not
2024-11-22 17:55:51 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> in that case, thank you all for coming and participating, I look forward to continue to work with you on ELN
2024-11-22 17:55:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> Happy Thanksgiving to fellow US folks, if  I don't talk to you between now and next Thursday (haha who am I kidding)
2024-11-22 17:56:03 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma gave a cookie to yselkowitz. They now have 10 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
2024-11-22 17:56:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> thanks Yaakov
2024-11-22 17:56:11 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !endmeeting