2025-01-06 16:01:04 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !startmeeting Quality
2025-01-06 16:01:05 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2025-01-06 16:01:05 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-06 16:01:05 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-01-06 16:01:04 UTC
2025-01-06 16:01:06 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Quality'
2025-01-06 16:01:07 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Adam Williamson (adamwill) - he / him / his
2025-01-06 16:01:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hi folks, who's around for quality meeting fun?
2025-01-06 16:01:31 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-06 16:01:34 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)
2025-01-06 16:01:42 <@coremodule:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-06 16:01:44 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Geoffrey Marr (coremodule)
2025-01-06 16:01:47 <@coremodule:fedora.im> It's been too long
2025-01-06 16:02:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hi geoff! how was hibernation
2025-01-06 16:02:13 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I am here tic
2025-01-06 16:02:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> happy new year everyone
2025-01-06 16:02:29 <@coremodule:fedora.im> the first week was good, then... too much time off with too little to do
2025-01-06 16:02:37 <@coremodule:fedora.im> but. i survive
2025-01-06 16:02:42 <@coremodule:fedora.im> but. i survived
2025-01-06 16:02:54 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Oh oh, you could have given me the time. Would certainly know what to do with it :D
2025-01-06 16:03:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ditto
2025-01-06 16:03:28 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i managed to knock a few games off my decade-long backlist this year...so yesterday i bought more
2025-01-06 16:04:04 <@derekenz:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-06 16:04:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Derek Enz (derekenz)
2025-01-06 16:04:19 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I learned I could make eggnog roughly a serving at a time
2025-01-06 16:04:30 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And proceeded to make what would be shareable amounts
2025-01-06 16:04:36 <@coremodule:fedora.im> like one does, of course
2025-01-06 16:04:53 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I discovered adamw is an ML finetuning optimizer 
2025-01-06 16:05:17 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> https://huggingface.co/docs/bitsandbytes/en/reference/optim/adamw
2025-01-06 16:05:22 <@kparal:matrix.org> adamw: just a decade long backlog? I finished Another World (Out of This World) recently. I'm going through my backlog chronologically...
2025-01-06 16:05:28 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, right, my evil twin
2025-01-06 16:05:39 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I've been working on Half Life...
2025-01-06 16:05:50 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Kamil Páral that may be an optimistic assessment
2025-01-06 16:05:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> a decade *if i'm doing nothing else*
2025-01-06 16:06:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> aaanyhoo! let's pretend like we care about operating systems for a bit
2025-01-06 16:06:42 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Previous meeting follow-up
2025-01-06 16:07:05 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info adam's favorite todo list item is coming to a brand new year
2025-01-06 16:07:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !action adamw to propose rewording of the beta upgrade criterion footnote about package sets
2025-01-06 16:07:38 <@adamwill:fedora.im> any other followup on *checks notes* november? hands up if you remember what you were doing in november?
2025-01-06 16:07:51 <@kparal:matrix.org> I sense a new year's resolution here...
2025-01-06 16:08:21 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> is that the updates-testing one?
2025-01-06 16:08:35 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I drafted it to test I remember :D
2025-01-06 16:09:12 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it came from a proposed blocker where we discovered that footnote really does say what we want it to, iirc
2025-01-06 16:09:35 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but it's much older than november. november is just when the *last meeting* was. :P
2025-01-06 16:09:46 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it came from a proposed blocker where we discovered that footnote really doesn't say what we want it to, iirc
2025-01-06 16:10:28 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> ahh I remember 
2025-01-06 16:10:50 <@adamwill:fedora.im> okay, moving on, then
2025-01-06 16:10:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Fedora 42 status and Check check-in
2025-01-06 16:11:04 <@adamwill:fedora.im> gah
2025-01-06 16:11:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !undo
2025-01-06 16:11:20 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Fedora 42 status and Change check-in
2025-01-06 16:11:54 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so, 42 is mostly fine atm i think, kernel 6.13 has had various issues for me but nothing too scary on a wider level
2025-01-06 16:13:23 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anyone else have anything to note?
2025-01-06 16:16:31 <@kparal:matrix.org> nothing here
2025-01-06 16:16:49 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I haven't played with it too much unfortunately
2025-01-06 16:16:56 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I have a question, but I not sure if it fits this frame.
2025-01-06 16:17:11 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I have a question, but not sure if it fits this frame.
2025-01-06 16:17:15 <@adamwill:fedora.im> eh, fire away
2025-01-06 16:18:09 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Ok, I would like to know what WebUI scenario should be covered on Workstation Live image?
2025-01-06 16:18:22 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Ok, I would like to know what WebUI scenarios should be covered on Workstation Live image?
2025-01-06 16:19:00 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> There is a bunch of them, but they have been supported on Server, AFAIK, but no WebUI on Server yet.
2025-01-06 16:19:46 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Or do we just want to focus on covering as much as WebUI allows on it?
2025-01-06 16:20:00 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I am asking for a friend.
2025-01-06 16:20:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> lruzicka: we basically need to cover everything unfortunately
2025-01-06 16:20:22 <@adamwill:fedora.im> the current tests run on server just because we decided it was the 'best' image to run them on
2025-01-06 16:20:31 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> even the security ? 
2025-01-06 16:20:35 <@farchord:fedora.im> How likely is it that WebUI will make it in 42?
2025-01-06 16:20:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but the storage criteria aren't server-specific. they apply to all release-blocking flavors. since we have webui on a release-blocking flavor now, all the storage criteria apply to it
2025-01-06 16:20:53 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> So, every type of partitioning on Workstation Live, is that so?
2025-01-06 16:20:57 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so we need to run all the storage tests we actually *can*
2025-01-06 16:20:58 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yup
2025-01-06 16:21:08 <@adamwill:fedora.im> there may be some that just aren't possible on live, but other than that
2025-01-06 16:21:15 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> Steve Cossette [Farchord]: they ran a test week and seems like they have what it takes 
2025-01-06 16:21:17 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i was planning to start working on it this week
2025-01-06 16:21:48 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Steve Cossette [Farchord]: it seems pretty nailed-on :/
2025-01-06 16:22:13 <@farchord:fedora.im> You don't seem to be happy about it
2025-01-06 16:22:20 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Yeah, I too was thinking about it. If you want my help, we should probably talk about how to do it.
2025-01-06 16:22:28 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it just gives us a pile of work to duplicate all the openqa storage tests
2025-01-06 16:22:37 <@farchord:fedora.im> Ahhh, fair
2025-01-06 16:22:57 <@adamwill:fedora.im> lruzicka: yeah, it's just a bit tricky to know how to split it up till we know how we want to do it, i think :D i need to go back and look at the loading logic as it's been a while since we touched that
2025-01-06 16:23:24 <@adamwill:fedora.im> like, whether we want to keep all the same loading logic and just throw conditionals in the tests in appropriate places, or what. i'm really not sure what the best way would be
2025-01-06 16:26:27 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> exactly .... maybe we could create a webui library for the scenarios and only add commands to the current logic with conditions. I believe if we added the code to the existing material, that would be a hell of a mess. 
2025-01-06 16:27:04 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> but yeah, I'll wait until you tell me to dive into it.
2025-01-06 16:27:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but yeah, i feel like we need to poke at it a bit in order to know even what work there is to split up :)
2025-01-06 16:27:25 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> sure
2025-01-06 16:28:02 <@adamwill:fedora.im> sounds good
2025-01-06 16:28:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so, looking at Changes...
2025-01-06 16:28:20 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info current Change list: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/42/ChangeSet
2025-01-06 16:28:48 <@adamwill:fedora.im> there ought to be no more system-wide changes now as the deadline has passed (but late ones have been allowed before)
2025-01-06 16:28:56 <@adamwill:fedora.im> "self-contained" submission is still open
2025-01-06 16:29:55 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Anaconda_As_Native_Wayland_Application is obviously significant, it's already in, so watch out for issues related to that in testing
2025-01-06 16:30:22 <@adamwill:fedora.im> we do already know it broke keyboard layout indicators - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2319565
2025-01-06 16:30:31 <@adamwill:fedora.im> and it's why we now have RDP not VNC in the installer
2025-01-06 16:31:15 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Unify_bin_and_sbin seems fairly large, though we do have experience from the /bin merge...still, keep an eye out for issues there too
2025-01-06 16:32:00 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SystemdSecurityHardening could break 'hardened' services in unexpected ways...that one might be test day-able, if the change devs can do some prep with us
2025-01-06 16:32:45 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ModernizeLiveMedia (and the switch to Kiwi for KDE lives) could cause unexpected changes to live image behaviour, again might be worth a test day
2025-01-06 16:33:26 <@adamwill:fedora.im> that's my list, any others anyone wanted to note?
2025-01-06 16:35:06 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> do we want to run test days around these apart from what we already ahve?
2025-01-06 16:35:17 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> do we want to run test days around these apart from what we already do?
2025-01-06 16:35:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> the ones i didn't mention test days for don't seem like great test day candidates to me as it's hard to know what to test
2025-01-06 16:35:39 <@adamwill:fedora.im> they're more the kinds of things where a weird bug shows up and we go 'ohh, that's probably caused by X'
2025-01-06 16:35:53 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but the ones where I said a test day might be a good idea, yeah, if you have cycles and can sync up with the devs
2025-01-06 16:36:14 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I will!
2025-01-06 16:36:57 <@adamwill:fedora.im> thanks!
2025-01-06 16:38:42 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Test Day / community event status
2025-01-06 16:38:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> take it away, Sumantro Mukherjee
2025-01-06 16:39:32 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> so had a few test days namely the Rawhide Anaconda WebUI which was great
2025-01-06 16:39:39 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yay
2025-01-06 16:39:42 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> https://testdays.fedoraproject.org/events/204
2025-01-06 16:39:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info that was anaconda webui test day
2025-01-06 16:40:05 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> Kernel 6.12 which was also good https://testdays.fedoraproject.org/events/205\
2025-01-06 16:40:36 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> IPA migrate which had just 1 person https://testdays.fedoraproject.org/events/206
2025-01-06 16:41:00 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> we really really need to know what and how to interact with the IPA community at large
2025-01-06 16:41:43 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i think the devs were meant to bring folks to that one
2025-01-06 16:41:44 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> we keep on getting Test Days request and we dont have people to test these! it breaks my heart to see good candidates fall off 
2025-01-06 16:41:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> as the subject matter was kinda advanced
2025-01-06 16:42:01 <@adamwill:fedora.im> probably the thing we need to do there is set expectations appropriately
2025-01-06 16:42:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if you propose a test day on a really advanced/niche topic, that's great, but you either need to bring folks along to test or expect low attendance...if the proposers aren't ready for that we can try to maybe kindly nudge them in a different direction
2025-01-06 16:43:03 <@adamwill:fedora.im> "general testers" aren't going to be able/have time to set up an entire freeipa cluster and prepare it for migration testing
2025-01-06 16:43:11 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> makes sense! 
2025-01-06 16:43:19 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Yeah, step 2 there: "Add users, groups, hbacrule, sudorules, selinuxusermaps etc on the Remote IPA server"
2025-01-06 16:43:42 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> That's me going "I'm out", and I would love to know more about IPA, but I need it spoon fed to me
2025-01-06 16:44:13 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Unfortunately, the more you spoon feed, the more you get everyone just testing the same thing which probably isn't real effective either, so it's a balance
2025-01-06 16:44:26 <@adamwill:fedora.im> we do have test cases we could have linked there, but honestly even with step-by-step instructions setting up a working freeipa deployment is like a whole-day job
2025-01-06 16:44:30 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: I agree with you.. I tried simplfing but then the test cases kept looking documentation :\ 
2025-01-06 16:45:08 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Yeah, I've tried outside of test day contexts for other projects
2025-01-06 16:45:23 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And gotten frustrated, so I was probably unfairly scared of this one from the outset
2025-01-06 16:45:41 <@adamwill:fedora.im> haha
2025-01-06 16:47:32 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I guess, you should simplify them by adding explanations so that they know what they are doing. I am not saying, I can do that, however.
2025-01-06 16:48:47 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> point taken! 
2025-01-06 16:49:13 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> In looking at it in more detail, that one actually seems pretty doable
2025-01-06 16:49:27 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> So I wonder how many people just got scared off by "IPA oh no!"
2025-01-06 16:49:53 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Not sure how to work around that
2025-01-06 16:50:11 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: plus it came on9th december which was like almost holiday season
2025-01-06 16:50:21 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Yeah
2025-01-06 16:50:51 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> there will be a Podman 5.4 test week soon
2025-01-06 16:50:59 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> as they release 
2025-01-06 16:52:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info podman 5.4 test week coming soon, prepare yourself!
2025-01-06 16:54:22 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Well, it is sort of doable, but when I was doing it last time, I got stuck for some time. Can't remember why, though.
2025-01-06 16:54:44 <@adamwill:fedora.im> there are lots of weird gotchas with freeipa
2025-01-06 16:55:11 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> And also, if you do not know exactly how it should work, you can be sure, it works indeed, even if it seems to be.
2025-01-06 16:55:22 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> And also, if you do not know exactly how it should work, you cannot be sure, it works indeed, even if it seems to be.
2025-01-06 16:56:23 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty
2025-01-06 16:56:28 <@adamwill:fedora.im> is that everything, sumantro?
2025-01-06 16:56:37 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> yep EOM
2025-01-06 16:57:46 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty
2025-01-06 16:57:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2025-01-06 16:57:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anything else, folks?
2025-01-06 16:58:42 <@derekenz:fedora.im> All good here
2025-01-06 16:59:12 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Nothing from me
2025-01-06 16:59:32 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty
2025-01-06 16:59:37 <@adamwill:fedora.im> happy new year again! thanks for coming out, folks
2025-01-06 16:59:39 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !endmeeting