#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:00:14

!startmeeting fedora-server

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:16

Meeting started at 2025-02-05 18:00:14 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:00:16

The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:00:22

!topic Welcome / roll call

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:00:28

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:00:29

Paul Maconi (aggraxis) - he / him / his

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:00:36

As usual, let's wait a moment for everybody to show up.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:00:36

I'll post the agenda in 2-3 minutes.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:01:10

Welcome Paul!! Really good to see you here (And I'm still owing .....)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:01:26

It's on my todo

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:01:33

Hello friend :) Glad to be here with you guys.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:05:32

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:05:33

John Himpel (jwhimpel)

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:06:26

Hi John!

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:07:43

Greetings to Paul

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:09:05

Hi Johjn!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:09:38

As I see nirik is lurking as usual, busy with x meetings at the same time :-)

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:10:05

I'm sure he absolutely loves scrolling 3 meetings at once. :)

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:10:10

yeah, and dealing with branching fallout. ;(

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:10:19

Awesome guy if you haven't met him in person yet.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:10:50

Paul Maconi (Aggraxis): Agreed! Saw in on the most recent Flock videos

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:11:00

Paul Maconi (Aggraxis): I've met him . Yeah, I agree

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:13:24

In know, Mowest is currently busy with $DAYWORK. And Emmanuel Seyman may be still tired from FOSDEM or busy with his perl team.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:14:49

So we can start

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:15:01

!topic Agenda

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:15:12

!info Follow-up actions & announcements

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:15:22

!info Server user poll

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:15:34

!info FOSDEM 2025 & FLOCK 2025

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:15:44

!info Proposal: Fedora Server Edition - homelab spin-off

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:15:55

info Ansible assisted installation and configuration of WEB service

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:16:02

!info Open Floor

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:16:13

Anything to add?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:17:00

John seems to be typing ....

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:17:57

Let's do the formalia in the meantime

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:18:09

!topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:18:38

Nothing to add here. We have a list in our WG documentation:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:18:52

!link !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2024/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:19:18

Anything else to announce here?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:19:56

OK. let's continue

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:20:05

!topic 2. Server user poll

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:20:17

!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/145

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:20:29

about 15 mins max

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:20:39

Info about the current Status

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:20:51

!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/4BVXKYPHENXXHRSLDEZGCR32RF7G6TGZ/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:21:02

the floor is open

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:21:40

I skimmed over the initial poll summary. That was pretty interesting. Not surprised to see a lot of homelab response.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:22:19

I often tell people I work with the RHEL product but play with Fedora. :)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:22:26

Yes, it's not surprising. I had wished something else ...

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:22:49

I was surprised to see such a high percentage of "Professional Use".

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:22:57

(As I sit here with my RedHat hoodie at the office lol)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:23:00

But the level of participation is very encouraging.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:23:54

Nevertheless, I think we should continue to promote the poll for the last 2 weeks. The current plan is to close it Febr 18

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:24:32

I was also surprised at the number of responses. The Server edition is apparently more popular than I had imagined.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:24:49

Well, eseyman took over the promoting. Therefore:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:25:01

prospoal !action Well@eseyman will post on redit forum, Fedora general user on Discussion, Fedora Devel on Discussion and the corresponding mailing lists about the next 2 weeks to participate

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:25:22

I was surprised to see the Professional Use as well, but I shouldn't have been. I work in a regulated environment where software assurance is a key part of compliance. Most people don't really have that kind of organizational baggage holding them down.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:26:46

Yes, I'm content with the level of SMB / professional usage (where is no organization baggage) and even some data center usage.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:27:42

But regarding the proposal, any objection? (eseymnan is not here and can't say no :-)

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:27:54

Just watch the spacing on that @

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:28:00

(but we talked about that at FOSDEM )

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:28:20

It might not tag him without a space between well and @.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:28:27

No objections.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:29:10

!action Emmanuel Seyman will post on redit forum, Fedora general user on Discussion, Fedora Devel on Discussion and the corresponding mailing lists about the next 2 weeks to participate

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:30:03

And mowest can not participate today. We talked earlier today and he is would like to continue the work on the poll. Therefore

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:30:32

proposal: !agreed @mowest takes over the conduct and organization of the data analysis. Support from Gwmngilfen, Emmanuel, pboy. and anyone who is interested

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:31:03

looks good to me

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:31:14

OK, then

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:31:48

!agreed mowest akes over the conduct and organization of the data analysis. Support from Gwmngilfen, Emmanuel, pboy. and anyone who is interested

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:32:25

Anything to add to this topic??

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:32:40

Let's move on

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:32:50

!topic 3. FOSDEM 2025 & FLOCK 2025

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:33:03

No tracking issue yet

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:33:28

I won't be able to come to Flock this year.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:33:51

That's sad! It is a great opportunity to meet.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:33:56

I had a lot of fun last year, especially since I volunteered at the check-in desk.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:34:01

I met a ton of folks

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:34:38

Oh, yes that's a lot of opportunity to talk und to get aqc....

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:35:16

I'm definitely going to tune in as I can for any of the live streams.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:35:57

That's is better as nothing, indeed.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:36:28

But regarding FOSDEM: Most interesting for me was:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:36:39

localkdc - A general local authentication hub

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:36:50

!link https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5618-localkdc-a-general-local-authentication-hub/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:37:19

But regarding FOSDEM: Most interesting for me regarding server was:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:37:36

That would be able to provide Kerberos Keys and at the same time nicely integrate into the local authentication system.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:37:39

Oh, now that *IS* interesting

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:37:48

Especially with the whole NFS discussion we have been having.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:37:50

That could resolve our NFS uid issue and enable standard login with NFS 4.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:38:53

Unfortunately, we have just lost John. There seems to be an internet problem. John Himpel ???

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:39:17

I'm still here

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:39:50

OK, GOOD? What do you thing about localkdc?

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:41:06

The Free IPA folks claim their product (freeIPA) can run in 2 GB of memory. It seems to be a very complete, but somewhat fragile product.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:41:56

localkdc is supported and maintained by the same folks as freeIPA. So it should be a product of high quality.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:42:22

LocalKDC just talks on the system over a local Unix socket... This might be good for local system account stuff talking between resources on the local machine, but I wonder what it does for system to system access. I'll need to read their slide deck more carefully.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:42:30

I plan later this winter to bring up freeIPA on some of my smaller SBC servers to see and learn.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:43:45

The plan is, to have it ready for F43. I'm wondering if we should ask abbra, if we could install a pre-version on our test server for testing and include it in our NFS work.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:44:10

The plan is, to have localKDC ready for F43. I'm wondering if we should ask abbra, if we could install a pre-version on our test server for testing and include it in our NFS work.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:44:36

I'm willing to try, but as you all have learned, I do not have too many spare cycles to contribute.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:45:36

We can't use it before F43 anyway. So if we start early, we my make it to F43.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:46:20

And as I learned, the current FeeIPA doesn't help us much for local authentication, that is for an NFS server authentication.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:47:13

I wonder how bad it really has to be for a small implementation. I can poke at it at some point, it just won't be right away. My work life is heinous right now. :)

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:47:43

NFS is why I plan to experiment with FreeIPA (that and restricting selected users to selected apps/tasks).

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:48:02

HMN

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:49:18

Hm, I will ask Abbra for help to decide about the way. I would like to have local authentication and a kind of SSO support for clients of the server.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:49:54

Peter Boy: Feel free to "ping" the localKDC folks and see if they have something that we might install either on sisyphos or another VM. The more we learn, the better.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:50:19

OK, I'll do that !

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:51:17

!action pboy will ping Abbra and the freeIPA / localKDC people to advice and help us to integrate the right thing into Fedora Server.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:51:40

Well, regarding FLOCK

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:52:07

We should make some planning what we will to for Fedora Server there.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:24

I had a discussion with Emmanuel Seyman at FOSDEM and with mowest offling about that. We came up with a small collection of ideas:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

pboy & eseyman & mowest & et.al.: Working group worktitle: "Fedora Server Edition homelab spin-off"

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

Emmanuel: Talk worktitle: "What do our users do and what do they wish? A regular survey series for each edition to optimize further development."

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

pboy: Talk worktitle: "Participatory software development – Creating a Fedora Server Edition homelab spin-off"

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

Mowest & eseyman/pboy: Talk "worktitle: How we use Fedora Server Edition - Expected, unexpected and lessons learned for future developments"

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:53:36

pboy & eseyman & mowest & et.al.: Talk worktitle "Fedora Server Edition next – Where are we heading"

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:54:43

Any additional ideas and probably contributions?

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:55:58

Do we really need a homelab spin of the server edition? Between the quick ISO install, the qcow2 ingest (that I wrote a guide for) or the cloud edition (that is basically the server image with cloud-init installed and makes the process even easier on platforms with cloud-init support like Proxmox) the server product is already ripe for so many different implementations.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:56:20

I wonder if really people just need examples or inpsiration for things they COULD do with the server image.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:56:38

hey, folks

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:57:03

Hi Emmanuel!

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:57:10

Is the first one talking about the survey? I think that could be useful indeed.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:57:21

Sorry, I'm late. I was in bed after a leg injury

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:57:42

Yeah I bet folks would love a talk about the survey results.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

18:58:21

I mean I've already seen the preview and I'm excited to hear more.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:58:51

The third talk would be specifically about Server survey and results. The first one is about creating a regualr survey for each ediion (roughly)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:59:29

Emmanuel Seyman: I I thought I were the one with leg issues after FOSDEM :-)

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:00:42

Ok, I thought you meant making a 'homelab' image, which the current image totally provides an excellent springboard for. I love working with it.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

19:02:19

in the "home server" facebook group, proxmox seems to be a very big deal. Homelab is also a big deal. Don't know if either is FOSS or would run on an SBC. Sure would be nice to demo an SBC server system running something that had some "wow" factore.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:02:20

homelab aims to be a real alternative to the widespread commercial NAS: easy to use and safely to use giben all the advanced properties Fedora as a distribution provides.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:03:14

And with zero installation and configuration work - therefor we need an image

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:03:31

So are you envisioning something like an image where the user deploys it on hardware with storage and it props itself up much like a Synology NAS appliance or something similar?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:04:25

Yes! And that speifically on ARM SBC, with environment in mind (power cosnumption, heat emission, ...)

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:04:54

John Himpel: at home I run Proxmox on a pair of Minisforum UM 773 Lite mini PCs. I also have it installed on a Dell R730 server with 128gb of ram (for when I want to get crazy)

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:05:35

I rarely deploy straight to hardware except for my desktop and my laptop

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:05:38

But I suppose Proxmos on ARM SBC with 4 GB would be "difficult"

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:06:33

Fedora server running qemu on an ARM SBC with 4 GB wouldn't necessarily be impossible. Tight, but not impossible. Proxmox is just a big orchestration and management frontend for qemu and lxc.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:06:53

(and the networking nightmare under the hood)

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

19:08:35

Raspberry Pi(s) now come in 8GB and 16GB models. I would expect other SBC vendors to soon follow suit. We wouldn't need to build a workhorse, just something to "whet one's appetite" with possibilities that we could demo.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:09:13

jwhimpel: I agree!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:09:46

But is must be workable, too, specifically for those who are not tech nerds

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:10:43

But nothing prevents us from creating more than one installation image. One for home and one for nerds

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:11:08

And my Radxa Pi5 has 16 gb

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

19:11:32

Peter Boy: Agreed mostly. Remember that 40%+ of the survey respondents are using Fedora Server is a "Professional environment". We should keep it simple, but it may take some manual tweaking. Paul would know more about that than I.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:12:28

I'm always a fan of cooking images with kickstart. :)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:12:49

Yeah, we should continue to address the professional usage, absolutely

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:13:10

Between that and Ansible you can get about 90% of where you need to be. The rest probably requires human input or thought anyways.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:13:15

I think the professional usage is our main target!

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

19:14:22

Homelab targeting the also 40%+ usage in "home lab environment" would also be a big win!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:14:48

I think the professional usage is our main target! And we must not mix theses scenarios

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:15:36

SORRY, i just notice we are long out of time!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:15:57

We should close here and continue in the Matrix room and on mailing list.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

19:16:37

Does anyone know if zodbot works in Fedora Server? If it does, I would propose moving our meetings to the Fedora Server room.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:17:08

Good idea! I'll ask nirik He should know.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:17:18

But I suppose it does not.

<@aggraxis:fedora.im>

19:17:32

Thanks everyone for being here for the meeting today :)

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

19:17:38

It could... but I would strongly advise against it.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:17:50

That's nearly the same :-)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:18:21

We get get used to continue "after work" in Server room.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

19:18:24

see: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/should-we-have-meetings-in-dedicated-meeting-rooms-or-in-the-teams-own-channel/92380

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

19:18:33

Then, I withdraw my question

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

19:19:13

hopefully that makes sense. ;)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:19:40

I had a short look and agree so far.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

19:20:30

but if you do want to do that it's possible... just let me know.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:20:37

So, the better way is to do the bulk in meeting room and afterwards continue with details in der Server room, I think.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:21:04

So, the better way is to do the bulk in meeting room and afterwards continue with details in der Server room, if we run out of time. I think.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:21:56

Before we get scolded for overdrawing, I'll close here and change in the server room

<@pboy:fedora.im>

19:22:20

!endmeeting