2025-02-10 13:02:01 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !startmeeting NeuroFedora - 2025-02-10
2025-02-10 13:02:02 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-02-10 13:02:01 UTC
2025-02-10 13:02:02 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'NeuroFedora - 2025-02-10'
2025-02-10 13:02:04 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !meetingname neurofedora
2025-02-10 13:02:05 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now neurofedora
2025-02-10 13:02:14 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Agenda: https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/2025/02/10/next-open-neurofedora-meeting-10-february-2025-1300-utc.html
2025-02-10 13:02:18 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic Intros/roll call
2025-02-10 13:02:20 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !hi
2025-02-10 13:02:22 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Ankur Sinha (ankursinha) - he / him / his
2025-02-10 13:03:22 <@music:fedora.im> !hello
2025-02-10 13:03:27 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Benjamin Beasley (music) - he / him / his
2025-02-10 13:04:10 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !group members neuro-sig
2025-02-10 13:04:13 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Members of neuro-sig: Ali Erdinc Koroglu, alciregi, Ankur Sinha, Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez, fangq, Sandro ., Igor Raits, ilgrad, iztokf, lbazan, Aniket Pradhan, mhough, Benjamin Beasley, sagitter, sergiopr, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2025-02-10 13:04:33 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Alessio: Luis Bazan ^
2025-02-10 13:04:55 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Everyone else is welcome to join us too, of course :)
2025-02-10 13:05:40 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic Tasks from last meeting
2025-02-10 13:05:55 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Last meeting logs are here: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/meeting_matrix_fedoraproject-org/2025-01-27/neurofedora.2025-01-27-13.01.html
2025-02-10 13:06:11 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I have a few pending tasks that are all WIP. The one that I'm currently working on is the dcmtk update
2025-02-10 13:06:25 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info dcmtk update in progress here: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/dcmtk/pull-request/10 
2025-02-10 13:06:54 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> the new versions fix a couple of CVEs too, so if the impact check goes well, I'll consider updating F40+
2025-02-10 13:07:02 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> !hi
2025-02-10 13:07:03 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Sandro . (gui1ty)
2025-02-10 13:07:29 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Penguinpee: music: does that sound fine, do you think? I need to run an abidiff check first, of course
2025-02-10 13:07:59 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> impact check is running here on COPR, by the way: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/ankursinha/dcmtk-3.6.9/builds/
2025-02-10 13:08:04 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> itk is still building
2025-02-10 13:08:29 <@music:fedora.im> You said in the PR that it bumps the SONAME version, so it would have to be considered ABI-incompatible and dependent packages would have to be rebuilt.
2025-02-10 13:08:52 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Yeh, they bump the patch number for each release, and the patch number goes into the soname version
2025-02-10 13:08:53 <@music:fedora.im> I left some notes on the process for shipping an SONAME bump in stable releases: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/dcmtk/pull-request/10
2025-02-10 13:09:18 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> So it's not a clear indicator of ABI changes. We'll have to run abidiff etc. to get details
2025-02-10 13:09:26 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Ah, cool, I'll take a look at your notes
2025-02-10 13:10:06 <@music:fedora.im> Even if the ABI is otherwise compatible, if the SONAME version has changed, it’s still an incompatible update because all dependent packages must be rebuilt.
2025-02-10 13:10:24 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Yes, that's what I'm currently testing on COPR
2025-02-10 13:11:01 <@music:fedora.im> If it’s like most C++ libraries, the rules for maintaining ABI stability are so Byzantine that upstream doesn’t see it worth it to attempt to guarantee anything.
2025-02-10 13:11:17 <@tslee_:matrix.org> !hi Lee from India
2025-02-10 13:11:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Sorry, I can only look up one username at a time
2025-02-10 13:13:07 <@music:fedora.im> …and if you have to rebuild all dependent packages due to an SONAME version bump, then you’re no longer concerned about ABI diffing, only API compatibility.
2025-02-10 13:13:13 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Hi Lee! Welcome!
2025-02-10 13:13:13 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> the other option is to only backport the specific commits that fix the CVEs to to F40/F41---no soname bump if we do that
2025-02-10 13:13:14 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I'll see what works once the impact check is complete and I've run abipkgdiff etc.
2025-02-10 13:13:41 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> music: do you know, off the top of your head, the command to run fedabipkgdiff for this sort of thing?
2025-02-10 13:13:49 <@music:fedora.im> Yes, that is probably the better way to go if they are self-contained enough to backport and don’t inherently break the ABI.
2025-02-10 13:14:32 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I guess once rawhide is built and up to date, I can run `fedabipkgdiff --from fc42 --to fc43` and that should do it
2025-02-10 13:14:46 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> (Probably something that should be documented in the package maintainer docs)
2025-02-10 13:15:15 <@music:fedora.im> Yes, I do… hold on, let me type it out.
2025-02-10 13:15:24 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Lee: we just go through the agenda here to check on our packages and tasks, so please chime in with any comments at all as you wish :)
2025-02-10 13:15:27 <@tslee_:matrix.org> Thanks
2025-02-10 13:16:18 <@tslee_:matrix.org> noted
2025-02-10 13:16:34 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info dcmtk update is in progress: needs impact check + ABI change check for us to decide what releases it should land in and further steps
2025-02-10 13:16:48 <@music:fedora.im> So it’s `fedabipkgdiff --from fc43 ./path/to/package-or-subpackage-with-shared-libraries.fc43.x86_64.rpm`, but there’s a quirk.
2025-02-10 13:17:20 <@music:fedora.im> It will find the `debugsource` package, get confused, and bail out with `Found more than one debuginfo package in this directory. At the moment, fedabipkgdiff is not able to deal with this case. Please create two separate directories and put an RPM and its ancillary debuginfo and devel RPMs in each directory.`
2025-02-10 13:17:34 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> AH, I did get that error!!
2025-02-10 13:17:38 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> and then I gave up XD
2025-02-10 13:17:52 <@music:fedora.im> So what I do is make an empty directory and copy just one (sub)package containing shared libraries into it, along with the accompanying `debuginfo` package. Then it works.
2025-02-10 13:18:31 <@music:fedora.im> For packages that ship different shared libraries in different subpackages (not dcmtk), rinse and repeat for each subpackage with shared libraries.
2025-02-10 13:18:40 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Cool
2025-02-10 13:19:25 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info `fedabipkgdiff` usage: `fedabipkgdiff --from fc43 ./path/to/package-or-subpackage-with-shared-libraries.fc43.x86_64.rpm` but it needs each sub-package containing shared libraries and the accompanying debuginfo package to be moved to a new clean directory.
2025-02-10 13:20:33 <@music:fedora.im> Again, if there is already an SONAME version bump you don’t really care much about ABI changes in Rawhide or F42, but fedabipkgdiff is useful for double-checking that a backported patch didn’t break ABI.
2025-02-10 13:20:34 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Ankur remove his name from astro + scientific kickstart -> DONE (Ankur wasn't listed in these, so nothing needed here)
2025-02-10 13:21:09 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !action Ankur Ankur re-check bokeh PR and update for new versions
2025-02-10 13:21:36 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> this one requires some work to re-do the license etc. check with the new version. My PR there is out of date (by a year now!)
2025-02-10 13:21:59 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Penguinpee:  look at exdir and plotly
2025-02-10 13:22:09 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Penguinpee: do you remember what this was about? ^
2025-02-10 13:22:29 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !action Ankur open PR porting over comp-neuro image to Kiwi 
2025-02-10 13:22:33 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I've begun, but not finished
2025-02-10 13:22:35 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> No, I don't. I just had a quick search, but nothing popped up.
2025-02-10 13:23:41 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> I'll try to retrace to figure out. But it may well be that this is no longer relevant.
2025-02-10 13:26:13 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Ticket for porting to Kiwi: https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/577 
2025-02-10 13:26:28 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I haven't assigned it to myself yet, in case others want to have a go. When I do work on it properly, I'll take it up
2025-02-10 13:28:31 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic Open Pagure tickets
2025-02-10 13:28:46 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Tickets are here: https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issues?status=Open&tags=S%3A+Next+meeting
2025-02-10 13:28:50 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info No new tickets
2025-02-10 13:29:22 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Wrt STEPS: I have it building. The updated file lists etc. need to be looked at next
2025-02-10 13:29:28 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info STEPS update: https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/566 
2025-02-10 13:31:00 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic Package health check
2025-02-10 13:31:18 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Neuro-SIG packages on the dashboard are here: https://packager-dashboard.fedoraproject.org/dashboard?groups=neuro-sig 
2025-02-10 13:33:57 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> music: I see you fixed iv, did that no magically fix neuron by any chance? :P
2025-02-10 13:35:16 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> It doesn't look like it according to Koschei.
2025-02-10 13:35:21 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I'm just firing off a quick scratch build to check too
2025-02-10 13:35:41 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> That would've been lucky :)
2025-02-10 13:36:02 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> https://koschei.fedoraproject.org/build/19617468
2025-02-10 13:36:02 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> Assuming this has the fixed `iv` you referred to.
2025-02-10 13:38:39 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> hrm, too bad. We'll look into it then
2025-02-10 13:38:53 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I think we can let mod2c go, given that upstream has archived the repo: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2340871
2025-02-10 13:39:43 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I can retire it in F42+ now
2025-02-10 13:40:14 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> Now is the time...
2025-02-10 13:40:27 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> It's a leave package as well.
2025-02-10 13:40:40 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> yeh
2025-02-10 13:40:59 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I guess I should remove neuro-sig from it first before I retire it
2025-02-10 13:42:02 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> Good idea.
2025-02-10 13:43:37 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Does retiring not also orphan the package?
2025-02-10 13:43:40 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> doesn't seem to
2025-02-10 13:45:31 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I'll prioritise the neuron FTBFS because that'll fix a lot of others that depend on it
2025-02-10 13:45:56 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !action Ankur prioritise looking at neuron FTBFS: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2340926
2025-02-10 13:46:13 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> I'm not exactly sure how those processes work behind the scenes, but I think it should be one or the other. Orphaning entails retirement unless someone adopts the package.
2025-02-10 13:47:32 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> I retired it, and now have also orphaned it
2025-02-10 13:47:52 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> (since it's inactive upstream, I wouldn't expect anyone to take it on)
2025-02-10 13:48:22 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> Let's what gremlins you've been feeding...
2025-02-10 13:48:31 <@gui1ty:fedora.im> Let's see what gremlins you've been feeding...
2025-02-10 13:48:39 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Let's move on to the next topic, we're short on time now :o
2025-02-10 13:48:45 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic Open package reviews check
2025-02-10 13:49:12 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Neuro-sig new package review tracker is here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=fedora-neuro
2025-02-10 13:50:01 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Only one review ticket awaiting review at the moment: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2283111 (python-astrovascpy)
2025-02-10 13:50:19 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic CompNeuro lab iso image compose check
2025-02-10 13:50:34 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info See the task on koji here: https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=30691
2025-02-10 13:50:38 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> it's currently broken..
2025-02-10 13:51:08 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> that's because of our FTBFS bugs
2025-02-10 13:51:20 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Compose currently broken until we fix neuron etc FTBFS issues
2025-02-10 13:51:37 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic (neuro)science bits of the week
2025-02-10 13:52:05 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Well, this sort of thing has been the focus for most academics recently
2025-02-10 13:52:10 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info https://www.science.org/content/article/nih-slashes-overhead-payments-research-sparking-outrage 
2025-02-10 13:52:23 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> and this
2025-02-10 13:52:29 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00396-6 
2025-02-10 13:53:05 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info More on "planet neuroscientists" here: https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/planet-neuroscientists/ 
2025-02-10 13:53:47 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> This is interesting
2025-02-10 13:53:50 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info https://www.womeninneuroscienceuk.org/post/adhd-the-brain-what-s-in-the-matter 
2025-02-10 13:57:28 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic Next meeting
2025-02-10 13:57:35 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> In 2 weeks at the same time I guess
2025-02-10 13:57:48 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !info Next meeting in 2 weeks on 24th Feb at 1300 UTC
2025-02-10 13:57:53 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2025-02-10 13:58:04 <@tslee_:matrix.org> Hi
2025-02-10 13:58:05 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> 3 minutes for anything else, and then we can continue in #neuro:fedoraproject.org  :)
2025-02-10 13:58:15 <@tslee_:matrix.org> I have a doubt
2025-02-10 13:58:42 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Sure, how can we help?
2025-02-10 13:59:07 <@tslee_:matrix.org> Where does the memory get stored when we are talking to a person ?
2025-02-10 13:59:33 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> There are multiple answers to that, depending on what level you want to look at
2025-02-10 13:59:38 <@tslee_:matrix.org> In AI context-window is the word I think
2025-02-10 13:59:44 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Ah, no
2025-02-10 13:59:58 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> the AI context window is a machine learning/AI related term
2025-02-10 14:00:14 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> it's "inspired" by biological memory, but it does not apply to the brain
2025-02-10 14:00:28 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> in the brain, memory is stored in synapses between neurons
2025-02-10 14:00:55 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Machine learning takes this inspiration from this and so "memory" in machine learning is also stored in "synapses" between neurons
2025-02-10 14:01:09 <@tslee_:matrix.org> I want to know what is the equivalent in Real AI
2025-02-10 14:01:31 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> Lee: should we take this back to #neuro:fedoraproject.org ? Someone else may want to use this room now
2025-02-10 14:01:35 <@ankursinha:fedora.im> !endmeeting