2025-03-04 16:00:06 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !startmeeting riscv-sig
2025-03-04 16:00:08 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-03-04 16:00:06 UTC
2025-03-04 16:00:08 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'riscv-sig'
2025-03-04 16:00:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !topic init process / agenda gathering
2025-03-04 16:00:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !meetingname riscv-sig
2025-03-04 16:00:11 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now riscv-sig
2025-03-04 16:01:23 <@davidlt:matrix.org> !hi
2025-03-04 16:01:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> David Abdurachmanov (davidlt)
2025-03-04 16:01:30 <@abologna:matrix.org> hello
2025-03-04 16:01:47 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning everyone
2025-03-04 16:01:52 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2025-03-04 16:01:53 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2025-03-04 16:01:55 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> g'day folks
2025-03-04 16:03:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> So, I had a few infra things: I have keytabs working with the secondary hub, so we can look at onboarding builders.
2025-03-04 16:03:24 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> also added some folks with perms to avoid me being a blocker. ;)
2025-03-04 16:03:25 <@rwmj:matrix.org> 'lo
2025-03-04 16:03:51 <@davidlt:matrix.org> nirik: do you have full instructions somewhere to try this?
2025-03-04 16:03:55 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think abologna was going to look at getting a builder with the new image online / configured / documented.
2025-03-04 16:04:02 <@rwmj:matrix.org> davidlt: should we move builders over yet?  I think last time you said not to do it yet
2025-03-04 16:04:29 <@abologna:matrix.org> I've only gotten as far as flashing a blank image on an SD card so far :'(
2025-03-04 16:04:41 <@davidlt:matrix.org> No, if we move the builders now everything stops. We prepare and switch when everything is ready.
2025-03-04 16:04:42 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I don't, but they are pretty obvious... get the keytab, set kojid.conf to use it, set hostname to match it, set koji url for secondary hub, profit. ;)
2025-03-04 16:05:01 <@abologna:matrix.org> nirik: maybe not so obvious for someone who's never done it before ;)
2025-03-04 16:05:16 <@davidlt:matrix.org> All good. Let's wait for abologna to deliver instructions and his experience 😄
2025-03-04 16:05:45 <@rwmj:matrix.org> ok
2025-03-04 16:05:55 <@abologna:matrix.org> I can promise to make at least *some* progress over the next couple of days. then I'm away until next Tuesday
2025-03-04 16:06:00 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I will give a try once abologna has some instructions.
2025-03-04 16:06:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Then, the next big topic for today is the overlay again I think. ;)
2025-03-04 16:06:37 <@abologna:matrix.org> oh boy :)
2025-03-04 16:07:25 <@davidlt:matrix.org> nirik: I said this multiple time probably, but I am not the one setting it up. I am flexible to the point where whatever you pick probably works for me 😄
2025-03-04 16:08:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, would it be possible to just keep using the gitea one you have? or thats bad because only you can commit to it?
2025-03-04 16:08:30 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Doesn't work. We are slowly breaking apart. kernel-ark is killing Gitea (a bug, as it used to work).
2025-03-04 16:08:47 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> kernel-arc is a beast of a git repo indeed.
2025-03-04 16:08:54 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I have restricted resource usage (via systemd) otherwise it starts killing Koji Hub, Web, etc.
2025-03-04 16:09:08 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> icky. ok.
2025-03-04 16:09:11 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It's not integrated with FAS too, which would be nice to have.
2025-03-04 16:09:23 <@abologna:matrix.org> I'm still leaning towards a group on pagure.io
2025-03-04 16:09:40 <@rwmj:matrix.org> just because it's a huge git repo?
2025-03-04 16:09:49 <@abologna:matrix.org> but I'm thinking, can we maybe do some actual tests once we have at least one builder up and running?
2025-03-04 16:10:02 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I am fine with whatever nirik says we can do. My biggest goal here is to have Fedora / FAS integration and make things simple for Fedora Infra.
2025-03-04 16:10:13 <@rwmj:matrix.org> on my copy of kernel-ark
2025-03-04 16:10:16 <@rwmj:matrix.org> 3.7G	.git
2025-03-04 16:10:16 <@rwmj:matrix.org> $ du -sh .git
2025-03-04 16:10:29 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Richard Jones: some indexing, health check, etc. doesn't run efficiently on this repo.
2025-03-04 16:10:35 <@abologna:matrix.org> yeah FAS support would be amazing
2025-03-04 16:10:46 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It literally almost went to <300 on load averages one day.
2025-03-04 16:10:46 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I don't want to spend a lot of cycles setting this up as we will just be trying to get rid of it anyhow. ;) So it's just short term...
2025-03-04 16:11:08 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so I guess from my point of view pagure would be easiest.
2025-03-04 16:11:10 <@abologna:matrix.org> pagure.io and gitlab.com both have fas support and good capabilities for collaboration
2025-03-04 16:11:20 <@abologna:matrix.org> the latter is problematic from the firewall point of view IIUC
2025-03-04 16:11:28 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> gitlab is anoying due to the load balancer issue. ;( yeah.
2025-03-04 16:11:32 <@davidlt:matrix.org> nirik: not exactly, every time we need to bump (i.e. rebuild) a package it also lands in dist-git overlay. We don't want to bump the official dist-git.
2025-03-04 16:11:54 <@abologna:matrix.org> the former is a bit unwieldy and some{what,times} slow
2025-03-04 16:12:17 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Gitlab uses Google, Cloudflare (CDN), Amazon, etc. It's a long list IP ranges.
2025-03-04 16:12:39 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> on the other hand we mostly all work with and love (?) pagure despite it's faults on a daily-ish basis
2025-03-04 16:12:39 <@abologna:matrix.org> IIUC the list is big but well-defined. doesn't that help?
2025-03-04 16:12:56 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It's not. The IP I get from Cloudflare is not in the IP ranges provided.
2025-03-04 16:12:57 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> its not well defined that I could find. ;)
2025-03-04 16:13:16 <@abologna:matrix.org> I believe davidlt had found a page with all the ranges listed
2025-03-04 16:13:35 <@rwmj:matrix.org> pagure isn't the worst tool i have to use, but not the best either
2025-03-04 16:13:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so I could do the thing I did for osbuild, but it's anoying. It's a cron that runs every minute and updates a ipset with the current ips.
2025-03-04 16:13:43 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Yes, but IP I get is  not within it. Yet Internet knows it's a dedicated IP in Cloudflare network for Gitlab.
2025-03-04 16:14:26 <@abologna:matrix.org> regarding rebuilds. are those mostly needed for bootstraps and so on?
2025-03-04 16:14:48 <@abologna:matrix.org> could we use side tags? reduce the number of commits that we need to do outside of dist-git somehow?
2025-03-04 16:14:52 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Also, we would be passing full Cloudflare through the firewall. That's a large chunk of Internet itself these days.
2025-03-04 16:15:17 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Side-tags don't solve this problem as you still need to bump the SPEC file.
2025-03-04 16:15:43 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I wonder if we could look at how eln works there. :) They use a dist tag... and bump that dist tag whenever they need to rebuild...
2025-03-04 16:16:01 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It's for bootstrap, but mostly fixing packages to build with proper dependencies (e.g. SOVERSION bumps), and in some cases rebuilds due to a toolchain bug.
2025-03-04 16:16:07 <@abologna:matrix.org> but if most are bootstrap commits that means there's going to be a later commit effectively reverting them later, right?
2025-03-04 16:16:14 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> _barely suppresses a rant about centralization of internet resources_
2025-03-04 16:16:49 <@davidlt:matrix.org> We don't revert. We use a different NVR pattern today, and the script just ignores it. If there a newer one in upstream it picks it up.
2025-03-04 16:17:17 <@abologna:matrix.org> right, I'm thinking in terms of the future where we want to be closer to Fedora is possible
2025-03-04 16:17:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/#bootstrapping
2025-03-04 16:17:53 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It's just a rebuild. Tiny SPEC change which is ignored by my scripts, and vanishes as soon as there is newer NVR in Fedora.
2025-03-04 16:18:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> huh, thats the old doc. can't find the new one.
2025-03-04 16:19:29 <@abologna:matrix.org> let's table this discussion for now, the details are effectively irrelevant, the basic point is that we're going to need the overlay for a while still unfortunately
2025-03-04 16:19:34 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> basically you can do it in a side tag, set the _bootstrap macro, build, unset it, build again and only one bump to make the orig change in version or whatever
2025-03-04 16:19:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, getting sidetracked.
2025-03-04 16:19:59 <@abologna:matrix.org> we can improve our process over time to reduce the need to a minimum
2025-03-04 16:20:28 <@abologna:matrix.org> but the need is never going away until we're on the primary koji I think
2025-03-04 16:20:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so, lets look at this once we have a builder and see what we can work with easiest?
2025-03-04 16:20:53 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> there's also codeberg I guess (not sure their setup for ips)
2025-03-04 16:21:06 <@davidlt:matrix.org> `_bootstrap` is not what we need.
2025-03-04 16:21:11 <@abologna:matrix.org> I'm not familiar with it, does it gave FAS integration?
2025-03-04 16:21:26 <@abologna:matrix.org> if not that would make it lower on the list than pagure.io IMO
2025-03-04 16:21:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I don't think yet... it's it's own accounts.
2025-03-04 16:22:08 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so, how about we try and make pagure work then? If something doesn't work there, we revisit?
2025-03-04 16:22:13 <@abologna:matrix.org> I really like the idea of gradually getting closer to Fedora infra. having both the dist-git overlay and our own koji with FAS integration would be a great step in that direction
2025-03-04 16:22:54 <@davidlt:matrix.org> FYI: https://pagure.io/koji/pull-request/898#
2025-03-04 16:23:18 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I see side tag allows settings macros too. I wonder if this allows overriding dist macro.
2025-03-04 16:23:45 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> in primary, no. in secondary... we could allow it
2025-03-04 16:24:29 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I still don't like it. Bumping SPEC is traditional way.
2025-03-04 16:25:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, or a comment only git commit for rpmautospec using things. ;)
2025-03-04 16:26:17 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Not really, because we cannot take upstream NVRs. We pass `-e rvreX` to autorelease macro to avoid this.
2025-03-04 16:26:54 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok. we probibly should document this stuff? ;) (Or perhaps it is?)
2025-03-04 16:26:58 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Anything we touch we make sure future NVRs from upstream are not affected.
2025-03-04 16:27:35 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It's not on wiki page, but it was documented somewhere, and mentioned multiple times a year for years.
2025-03-04 16:28:40 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Anyways, we need dist-git repo to do these stuff, and it should have API too.
2025-03-04 16:28:49 <@davidlt:matrix.org> (because it's not done manually)
2025-03-04 16:28:58 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok. I'm not saying it's bad or anything, I just don't know how you do things day to day. ;)
2025-03-04 16:29:26 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think we should just try pagure and if it's not workable for some reason we can revisit.
2025-03-04 16:30:27 <@abologna:matrix.org> I'm personally on board with that plan
2025-03-04 16:31:36 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I am not finding any Python packages for Pagure and it's API.
2025-03-04 16:32:11 <@abologna:matrix.org> davidlt: it's `python3-libpagure`
2025-03-04 16:32:23 <@abologna:matrix.org> I'm using it in the tracker, to fetch information about pull requests
2025-03-04 16:32:36 <@davidlt:matrix.org> REST + JSON for Pagure is an option too.
2025-03-04 16:32:39 <@abologna:matrix.org> very minimal use so I won't comment on its quality
2025-03-04 16:32:56 <@davidlt:matrix.org> libpagure seems to be dead, last update 5-7 years ago
2025-03-04 16:33:45 <@abologna:matrix.org> that's a large time range :D
2025-03-04 16:34:08 <@abologna:matrix.org> if the API hasn't changed much in the meantime there might not be a reason to update it
2025-03-04 16:34:25 <@abologna:matrix.org> I don't think pagure itself has seen a lot of development in recent years
2025-03-04 16:35:00 <@abologna:matrix.org> libpagure certainly works when used against the src.fedoraproject.org instance, at least for the operations I've tried
2025-03-04 16:35:22 <@abologna:matrix.org> I have no reason to believe it wouldn't work against the pagure.io instance
2025-03-04 16:36:05 <@smooge:fedora.im> davidlt: yes that is about the time it has had major work done to it.
2025-03-04 16:36:14 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I am looking into APIs right now.
2025-03-04 16:38:12 <@abologna:matrix.org> do we have other topics for the meeting? otherwise I think this is something that we can continue discussing in the regular channel
2025-03-04 16:38:23 <@abologna:matrix.org> and we can cut the meeting short
2025-03-04 16:38:43 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Container registry.
2025-03-04 16:39:24 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I think we can use what nirik suggested.
2025-03-04 16:39:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok, back
2025-03-04 16:39:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, if we have containers we could upload to the fedora-testing org on quay.io...
2025-03-04 16:40:12 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I wonder if the emulation works right there to run those on a x86_64 machine...
2025-03-04 16:40:15 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Do we need to think of a name? fedora-riscv?
2025-03-04 16:40:54 <@davidlt:matrix.org> You should be able to run non-native container if you setup podman/docker with qemu stuff.
2025-03-04 16:41:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> sure, seems reasonable
2025-03-04 16:41:09 <@jmontleon:fedora.im> I run riscv containers with qemu-user-static on x86_64 a lot if that's what you mean
2025-03-04 16:41:13 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> how often do we make images?
2025-03-04 16:41:23 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Pagure API does not seem to nice after spending initial 5+ minutes looking at it.
2025-03-04 16:41:25 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Jason Montleon yeah... cool.
2025-03-04 16:41:40 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Not often, but we will increase timing. 
2025-03-04 16:41:47 <@davidlt:matrix.org> I would love to go back to daily images at some point.
2025-03-04 16:42:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, would be nice.
2025-03-04 16:42:10 <@abologna:matrix.org> that seems somewhat unnecessary, but sure
2025-03-04 16:42:12 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Current images are stable snapshots, and we decided when to make them.
2025-03-04 16:42:30 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I guess for now, I can setup a robot account and get the creds to davidlt and he can upload them? or ?
2025-03-04 16:42:33 <@abologna:matrix.org> we need at least to match disk images
2025-03-04 16:42:53 <@davidlt:matrix.org> and at least to abologna 
2025-03-04 16:43:03 <@davidlt:matrix.org> He cooked the last images 😄
2025-03-04 16:43:12 <@abologna:matrix.org> remind me again, where would these image live?
2025-03-04 16:43:28 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://quay.io/organization/fedora-testing
2025-03-04 16:44:04 <@jmontleon:fedora.im> its does NOT work on ppc64le; buts that's just page size if I recall; don't know if that would stop some of the arm stuff/system from working  (i think that people are slightly more likely to try this)
2025-03-04 16:44:10 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Currently OCI tarballs and fedora.riscv.rocks registry is where they are placed, which is not secure registry (http).
2025-03-04 16:44:30 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> once we have something there we should make some noise about it... so people know it's there/can test it.
2025-03-04 16:44:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> anyhow, can get that setup out of meeting I suppose too
2025-03-04 16:45:01 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Sounds like wiki + Fedora Magazie article on RISCV and how to run non-native containers 😄
2025-03-04 16:45:11 <@davidlt:matrix.org> It's like 1-2 lines before executing the container.
2025-03-04 16:45:17 <@abologna:matrix.org> yeah that would be great! similar to the existing QEMU images
2025-03-04 16:45:22 <@abologna:matrix.org> *instructions
2025-03-04 16:45:43 <@abologna:matrix.org> give people a way to conveniently try out Fedora RISC-V without hardware purchase
2025-03-04 16:45:54 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yep 💯
2025-03-04 16:45:59 <@jmontleon:fedora.im> ya, basically dnf install qemu-user-static-riscv podman or whatever  the combo is and go
2025-03-04 16:46:04 <@davidlt:matrix.org> Having images on Quay means that it's a secure registry, and it's configured by default. Note, that toolbox configuration still needs to be modified to work.
2025-03-04 16:46:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I suppose package installs in there would pull from koji repos currently? or ?
2025-03-04 16:46:55 <@abologna:matrix.org> yeah, same as the disk images
2025-03-04 16:47:15 <@abologna:matrix.org> we have a patched `fedora-repos` package that points there and is identical between disk and container images
2025-03-04 16:47:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> thats fine for now.
2025-03-04 16:47:37 <@abologna:matrix.org> more like no other way for now :)
2025-03-04 16:47:47 <@davidlt:matrix.org> We used to pack podman and toolbox configuration, but it was removed from the Kiwi and replaced with wiki instructions.
2025-03-04 16:48:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so, about ~13m left... any other topics?
2025-03-04 16:48:45 <@rwmj:matrix.org> not from me
2025-03-04 16:48:45 <@abologna:matrix.org> not from my side. we can discuss the details in the regular channel
2025-03-04 16:49:30 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> sounds good... will close out in a min then?
2025-03-04 16:49:41 <@davidlt:matrix.org> ok
2025-03-04 16:50:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok, thanks for coming everyone, lets continue in #riscv:fedoraproject.org
2025-03-04 16:50:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !endmeeting