<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:00:40
!startmeeting ELN SIG 03 Apr '25
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
19:00:41
Meeting started at 2025-04-03 19:00:40 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
19:00:41
The Meeting name is 'ELN SIG 03 Apr '25'
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:00:46
!meetingname eln
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
19:00:47
The Meeting Name is now eln
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:00:55
!topic Init process
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:02:35
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:02:36
Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:03:23
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:03:24
Troy Dawson (tdawson)
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
19:03:50
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:03:52
Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:04:50
well, let's get started
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:04:55
!topic New business
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:05:06
!link https://github.com/minimization/content-resolver-input/pull/1408
<@blackmalenotblackmaill:matrix.org>
19:05:20
Howdy yall !
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:05:21
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:05:24
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:05:31
Michel Lind UTC-6 another meta package has been retired
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:05:40
from Fedora, that is
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:05:57
which one?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:06:05
oh that
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:06:19
yeah that's fine, thanks
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:06:34
we just wanted something internally to validate keys we use internally or we get from vendors
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:06:55
well, there is a replacement in this case, as noted there
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:07:04
yup
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:07:09
if you could please ack the ticket itself, I'll merge it
<@gmoro:matrix.org>
19:07:13
!hi
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:07:17
exactly, I meant we need to use that one once we move to 11. oh ok
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:07:17
Guilherme Moro (guilhermemoro)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:07:20
let me log in first so I can do that
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:07:24
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:07:25
Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:07:38
hello everybody
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:07:57
!link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/244
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:08:20
does anyone know what the story is wrt ocl-icd vs OpenCL-ICD-Loader in general and/or in fedora?
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:08:43
it just seems really odd to have two of them
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:11:02
I guess not 🤷♂️
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:11:36
!topic Old business
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:11:41
!link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/239
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:11:59
thank you Conan Kudo for filing an upstream ticket, unfortunately no update since
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:12:09
and the downstream maintainer is otherwise occupied atm
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:13:40
so far the only workaround is to use python, but that is not as performant (which was motivation for the switch to `nc` in the first place)
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:14:15
does anyone know how much of a difference it would make? I hardly have any experience with cloud-init
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:14:59
Not I
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:15:33
the Cloud WG should probably chime in
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:15:55
can we not just package the alternate nc implementation?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:16:05
I guess that would mean enabling EPEL which is not ideal
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:16:19
no this is for ELN (or RHEL eventually)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:16:39
so yeah I guess it's up to RHEL engineers to decide what to do here :/
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:16:52
either fork cloud-init or chase them to find a different solution, or package the other nc
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:16:56
who are Cloud WG? do they have a channel?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:17:03
yes, #cloud:fedoraproject.org
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:17:18
note that's Fedora Cloud so they probably would be fine just packaging the other nc
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:17:36
that's Neal and David Duncan and Major Hayden iirc?
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:17:41
yeah they won't care but maybe they'll have some input
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:17:43
so there's an overlap with RH cloud people
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:17:54
we should ask Major, he'd care about this wearing either hat
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:18:05
yeah Major is the aforementioned otherwise occupied maintainer
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:18:20
but perhaps someone else in the group will know
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:18:25
thanks for the tip
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:18:30
if they bring it up in their meeting I guess Major can follow up then
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:18:40
!action Yaakov to ask Cloud WG for advice on cloud-init
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:18:42
but yeah I sympathize, I'm also pulled in 10 different directions
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:18:56
!link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/238
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:19:09
ps I removed sequoia-keyring-linter from our internal inventory, so when your PR lands everything is in sync
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:19:15
I posted https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/libxcrypt-epel/pull-request/1 yesterday
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:19:31
thanks, I'll take a look today
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:19:39
sorry, been meaning to take care of that last week
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:20:02
I wonder what the packit failures are
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:20:06
ok we'll follow up in the PR?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:20:08
that'... never seen it before
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:20:10
yup
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:20:23
!action Michel to review https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/libxcrypt-epel/pull-request/1
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:20:42
!link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/202
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:21:30
the IdM/IPA folks have backported the engine->provider changes to bind and freeipa, so openssl-pkcs11 (the engine) is gone from ELN
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:21:33
so we're down to one package right?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:21:42
wpa_supplicant
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:21:55
do we know if disabling engine loses any functionality there?
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:22:11
but just when I thought that would be the last of openssl-devel-engine (at least for ELN proper), yeah that had snuck back in in the meantime
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:22:37
c10s has it disabled so it can't be that bad? 🤷♂️
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:22:51
iirc this breaks our desktop people too before it was fixed, so... people using RHEL 11 in enterprise environments might be unpleasantly surprised if there is no workaround
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:23:09
yselkowitz: I think I remember someone telling me it was needed for smart-card auth with wpa2?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:23:34
iirc it is needed at work where the wifi authentication is key based too
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:23:36
but RHEL 10 seems to disable it afaics
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:23:40
But they may have either fixed that or decided they could live with that limitation in 10.0
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:24:28
you'd think RHEL would need that more than Fedora, but engine is completely out of 10 afaik
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:24:28
(we don't run our desktop fleet on CentOS - yet, so it's a less serious issue right now, but could be painful in the future. sounds like upstream wpa_supplicant need to be urged to move away)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:24:43
but RH engineers run Fedora on desktops now :)
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:24:58
I'm sure the maintainer will take care of that if the case arises
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:25:30
but in the meantime it's now the last user of engine, at least in ELN
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:25:33
but yeah
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:25:48
it burst my bubble a bit
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:25:49
given this is broken in c10s anyway I'm ok if we conditionalize it
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:26:26
ack
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:26:55
I'll make a mental note to ask our intrepid desktop CentOS users if the internal wifi works for them
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:27:15
great
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:27:17
!link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/192
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:27:33
Troy Dawson, update please?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:28:07
We're pretty much through the Package Request, but Stephen brought up a question.
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:28:26
He was thinking we'd put this in an already "fedora" package, I guess in fedora-logos or something.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:29:42
unlike centos/rhel, backgrounds are separate srpms from fedora-logos
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:29:48
But now I'm not seeing that question ... so ... maybe I imagined that?
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:30:09
I saw that too somewhere, maybe in chat?
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:30:23
anyway, I don't think doing that gains us anything
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:30:25
But I think it's close, Conan Kudo needs to approve it.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:30:39
yeah, lemme go look again
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:30:45
But it brings up the question, should this be built in ELN only? (I was expecting it to be.)
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:30:50
and the fedora-* prefix will make it easy to remember to filter out of the eln->c11s sync
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:31:17
I had thought so too but somebody suggested just making it available (non-default) across releases?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:31:19
I think I'd prefer it to be called just eln-backgrounds
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:31:35
I want it easy to filter
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:31:44
eln is an easy enough filter
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:31:53
but ehh
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:32:00
Right, I think it was in chat.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:32:02
but it's *another* filter while fedora-* already exists
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:32:25
I had noted that we probably want the artwork to be *available* to any release, but only defaulted in Fedora ELN
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:32:25
Ahh ... ok, that makes more sense.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:33:08
ok but tbh I just hadn't thought about even building it for anything but eln
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:33:18
sounds good to me
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:33:26
not that I really care that much, besides being non-default elsewhere
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:33:33
I want to be able to use it on my Fedora laptop, it will match my hot dog Plymouth theme
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:33:42
we build the fedora backgrounds in epel, I don't see why we wouldn't
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:33:45
we dropped the hot dog, remember?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:33:51
yes, but that's ok
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:33:58
it's still thematically matching
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:34:10
the condiments, ok I guess so
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:34:16
I guess I should save the versions with the hot dog anyway in case I want to be extra fun
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:34:20
and I do intend to talk to troy about his hot dog version :)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:34:22
and Conan Kudo might need it for his Hot Dog OS
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:34:30
generic-logos needs a backgrounds subpackages
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:34:31
But in the end I suppose it's probably just fine to build it only for ELN and just publish the image on the web somewhere for the crazies like Michel Lind UTC-6 to download manually
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:34:31
aha jinx
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:34:33
generic-logos needs a backgrounds subpackage
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:34:45
"I am not crazy, my mom had me tested!"
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:34:59
"yes but I wish we consulted that specialist in Houston..."
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:35:02
"mom tested, kid approved"
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:35:05
She really should have followed up with that specialist.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:35:37
!idea Stephen Gallagher moves that fedora-eln-backgrounds be built for all stable releases, but provide the default configuration only in ELN
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:35:44
does that some it up?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:35:45
of course the best sausage for a hot dog is a kielbasa
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:35:50
proud Chicago-adjacent-er
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:36:08
do we vote on this once Stephen confirms?
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:36:22
yselkowitz: Yes, but as I noted in follow-up comments, I don't actually care all that much. It was more about keeping with tradition.
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:36:33
(Like Troy mentioned about keeping Fedora backgrounds in EPEL)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:36:36
So, conditionalize the "Provides: system-backgrounds" for eln only?
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:36:55
exactly
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:37:03
I'm ok with that.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:37:05
let's vote!
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:37:10
+1
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:37:41
0
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:37:53
0 on your own idea? ;)
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:37:57
+1
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:37:57
Troy Dawson: you still haven't updated the license files in the git repo and sources
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:38:01
that's the remaining blocker
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:38:09
(actually recusal is quite a nice ideal)
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:38:09
I commit my vote to match the majority :)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:38:12
+1
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:38:23
Michel Lind UTC-6: By the way, there is this in Fedora - beefy-miracle-backgrounds
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:38:38
me plays devil advocate and suggests Troy uses public domain ;)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:38:41
oh doh
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:38:44
Hmm ... I thought I did update those ... I wonder if I forgot to push them.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:38:49
yes we should branch that and the plymouth theme to EPEL. thanks
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:38:58
I'll add it to my COPR for now
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:39:34
Yep, I forgot to push the license and other change.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:39:42
!agreed (+4, -0, 1) that fedora-eln-backgrounds be built for all stable releases, but provide the default configuration only in ELN
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:40:03
Michel Lind UTC-6: Public Domain is too ambiguous to be a good idea. It's why we (Fedora) are cautious about CC0 as well
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:40:14
I was definitely tongue in cheek
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:40:29
dealing with a headache now auditing 7zip which has so many files that are claimed to be public domain
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:40:35
they *all* require legal to take a look
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:40:47
(and our guidelines is slightly unclear on that which does not help)
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:40:57
we should have a standard license already for our own backgrounds, just use that?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:41:06
we did
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:41:14
my guess would be CC-BY-??
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:41:14
the problem is Troy didn't include the right file
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:41:33
the license tag is correct, just the file with the license terms is wrong
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:41:36
Actually, I included the file from f42-backgrounds ... so THEY didn't include the right file.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:41:43
ugh
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:41:43
We should probrubly file a bug on that.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:41:43
hah!
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:41:45
I wonder about that, actually. Licensing terms are weird if they include logos...
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:42:00
that's why fedora backgrounds usually don't anymore
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:42:15
Don't what?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:42:42
IIRC the fedora core 6 background caused a red flag
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:42:51
that's why we never did it again
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:42:52
we don't incorporate the fedora logo into backgrounds anymore
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:42:58
Don't include the Fedora logo in the backgrounds.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:42:59
what was the 6 background? the first one I remember is 8
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:43:05
(8 was the awful purple iirc)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:43:15
oh yeah, we just have a gnome patch to draw the background iirc
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:43:18
6 has the fedora infinity dna helix
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:43:19
draw the logo
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:43:24
ahh that
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:43:54
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers#Fedora_Core_6
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:44:13
we included the wordmark in fedora 7's wallpaper, but after that, no more
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:44:23
and I'm pretty sure the licensing issue is why
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:44:27
TIL wordmark
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:44:58
logo mark and word mark are the icon and name respectively
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:45:18
anyway
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:45:28
not sure I want to know the answer, but do we have the same concerns with the ELN logo?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:45:30
yes if the license file is wrong in fedora backgrounds it needs to be fixed there too
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:46:10
yselkowitz: I need to double-check what terms mizmo designed that for us.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:46:23
the ELN logo is not trademarked
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:46:43
so it's just normal copyright stuff
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:46:55
ok we'll leave it at that then
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:47:03
!link !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/218
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:47:29
this has been a PAINFUL mass rebuild
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:47:34
there are just 4 failures left
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:47:46
Right, but I just realized I don't know what copyright/license terms we have for it.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:48:19
you'll check on that?
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:48:27
the terms, that is
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:48:41
(always hard to tell when we're finished a topic here)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:49:07
bison broke? uh oh
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:49:14
I just noticed that right now - that sounds bad
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:49:16
like really bad
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:49:16
nah it's one test failure
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:49:31
ah
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:49:31
so not that bad but annoying
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:49:34
still..
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:49:45
yeah tell me about it
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:49:55
I don't really have time to do what I wanted to do today so maybe I'll take a look after I do your PR review
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:50:21
sounds good
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:50:29
reason I'm mentioning this now is...
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:50:36
!topic Next meeting
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:51:14
I'll be mostly afk for the next two weeks, so Troy will be running meeting in my stead
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:51:26
are there any conflicts for next week?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:51:30
Oh ... I just saw that we have Alt Images monthly meeting at the same time next week.
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
19:52:06
I'll be unavailable next week as well
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:52:12
We didn't until the time change. It's on UTC, which this is NA based.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:52:16
I think I have something but earlier in the day so should be fine
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:52:21
ugh
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:52:52
cancel next week then?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:52:58
How about we skip next week. Yep.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:52:59
yeah
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:53:06
sgtm
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:53:10
ok, any conflicts two weeks out?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:53:19
I'm good for two weeks out.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:53:22
17th
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:53:24
I should be able to host it then.
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:54:24
!info next meeting is in a fortnight, 17 Apr at 15:00 EDT, skipping next week due to conflicts
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:54:48
!topic Open Floor
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:55:02
anyone have anything else to discuss today?
<@tdawson:fedora.im>
19:55:26
Not I
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:55:50
Nope
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:57:17
nada
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:57:58
ok then, thank you all for coming and the lively discussion, I'll see you all when I'm back in 3 weeks, but please do file tickets or reach out to Troy in my absence
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
19:58:08
!endmeeting